What’s the best clear water based finish
I’m looking for a good, no the best, clear/non-yellowing (!!!) water based finish for unstained finished douglas fir (interior finish). I would really appreciate any info and company contacts.
I’m looking for a good, no the best, clear/non-yellowing (!!!) water based finish for unstained finished douglas fir (interior finish). I would really appreciate any info and company contacts.
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Replies
it's for guitars, but works on everything
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Finishing_supplies/Finishes_and_solvents/1/ColorTone_Waterbase_Guitar_Lacquers.html
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
What is "best"? Clearest? Flexible or Hard?
Water-based finish has improved in the last ten years, since it first came out. I like Benjamin Moore Moorgard, but many companies offer a top-rated product.
The one Sphere mentions might be fine, but it ain't true lacquer inthe traditional sense, so product names often have little to do with what they are.
Best means best, of all properties. I have been away from finishes for about 10 years and I was hopeing that when a company advertizes non-yellowing, it really means non-yellowing. Also hopeing that you guys that have been able to keep up with the finish technologies might be able to direct me to the best. What would you put on a piece of almost priceless work that you would not want to refinish in a few years and let the natural color of the wood show. I actually realize this is really asking a lot.
I've got $12k in finished trusses (furniture grade) that I have one chance on. I would like the "best" available.
lemme ask a few pertinent q's here.
Why waterbased?
How do you intend to apply whatever ya use? (spray,roller,brush, all of the above?)
What species of wood are these trusses?
Are they KD or air dried?
What prep as far as sanding are you doing?
Sorry if it sounds nosey, but it helps to know exactly what the conditions are in advance..I worked with a reknown paint chemist/finisher for quite awhile, we formulated waterbased stains and finishes, and for instance if you have a lot of sunlight (UV) in the room, THAT may impart more importantance than, say, easy to apply with a brush characteristic..kapesh?
What you MAY be after,MAY not exist, or MAY be a combination of steps..
I'll tell ya all I can, if I know the details.
As far as what would go on something "priceless" I get to thinking a Stienway Grand...an they don't use H20 based finish..it's nitro-cell.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
Answers:
1. I have severe reactions to petroleum based products.
2. HVLP
3. & 4. douglas fir kiln dried
5. I'm hopeing the factory sanding will fine enought to apply the first coat to raise the grain and seal, really have to see. Then 150 and spray again, 220 and final coat. All hand sanding (arg).I'll take suggestions though.
6. UV, alot but I'm still not sure as to whether or not there will be any direct sunlight on the trusses but want to plan as if there will be.
And no,I don't think you're being nosey at all. I'm surprised no one else asked these questions. One really needs to know all the details before responding with a knowedgable answer.
I used the "priceless" or your "Stienway Grand" just to make a point,a bit exagerated and to remove the question "what is best" from the discussion. The point being is I would rather pay a premium price for a premium product (if it exists) than be really disapointed a couple of years down the road.
"What you MAY be after,MAY not exist, or MAY be a combination of steps."
This is exactly right, and I so love the natural color of wood, I was hopeing that there might be a product or proceedure at this point in time to be able to maintain that natural color. I really hate to have to stain it but I also don't want to be looking at yellowed out doug-fir in a couple of years either.
Ok, what is nitro-cell?
Thank you guys for all your responces and information.
Thanks Joe, the info helps.
As to YOUR Q..Nitro is not WB..aleergies aside, it still may not do what you ask.
KD DF from the mill? you are sanding. (that's a period)
Mill marks are from a planer, NOT a sander..Tool up.
HVLP= good choice, I'd do it too.
now focus on the uv ( btw, some non'yellowing DO NOT have UV inhibs, means the WOOD will change, not the fin coat)
I'll go with, my first rec. or the SW also posted...it ain't easy nor cheap..but if that's your goal..an instrument "lacquer" is what ya want..
wet down with a WET rag, first..give it a day..sand w/120 (or lower if it gets really big fuzzies, planer ridges) I recommend an random O for this...damp again, (yup) to remove the grit, and re-sand 180 (or a jump from the rough grit (80?)..
spray a light "tack coat" of fin...wait till the h20 flashes off, lay it on medium next. ( now is where proprietary formulas kick in, read the can)
Sand again..180/220...what have you ( stay away from silicon sterated paper , the whiteish stuff, the soap can preclude adhesion, like it makes the sandpapeer not clog)
spray the next coat full, no drips tho, they suk..dont sand if yer a happy boy..and within the time frame of the fin, hit her one more time.
walk away, smile, party on
now, 4/0 steel wool, and carnuba (Mothers Gold Car wax) and a few old BVD's...polish..
NEVER re-touch after the steel wool w/ WB it'll haunt you.
I recomend 3M Tri-mite GOLD..Sand Paper, no loading, but un sterated..
go for it
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
Van technologies stuff is good. Van Acqua 485 is a waterbased urethane. www.Woodfinishingsupplies.com sells it. Must be sprayed. They also have an acrylic version that can possibly be brushed (if you're really good). A lot of guitar people use this stuff. Much cheaper than buying it from Stewmac. Stay away from the catalyzed stuff. Chances are they won't sell it to you anyway.
Go here: http://www.homesteadfinishing.com
Check out their Fuhr and Target product lines. Also, go to their finishing forum and read all the chatter about usage, materials, prep, etc.
If you have a lot to do, it may be best to buy a quart each of a few different items.
Thanks for the links.
Goldhiller turned me on to the Ultima series of spray lacquer in this chart. I used it for my new cherry cabinets. I'm quite pleased with it's performance. Get yourself a HVLP setup to make it go quicker.
http://www.homesteadfinishing.com/htdocs/target_product_use.htm
I've been very happy with Crystalac. I've used it for about 12 years now.
I used to be able to get it locally, but now I get it from McFeeley's http://www.mcfeeleys.com
The only thing about getting it mail order is that you're not supposed to let it freeze, so ordering it during the winter can be a problem if you can't be home to receive it.
I'm going to vote for Sherwins Kem Aqua. I love it, but I've already written essays on it in the past. If you're more interested, email me and I'll tell you everything I can about it. Best? Arbitrary. Find what fits your application. I think this would.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain
If you are looking for semi-gloss or satin reflectivity, you should check out Traffic:
http://www.bonakemi.com/productspecs/traffic.html
The system uses an acrylic resin to seal the wood so the poly bonds to it instead of the wood. I think it is even more durable than moisture cure poly.
If you are looking for high gloss where the grain really shouts, that is going to be hard to attain in the water bourne world.