I was just installing a Porcher Novella corner mount sink in our guest bathroom, and I wondered if there is something I’m missing about the instructions. The sink is a corner model, wall hung. Attachment is by four lag screw/ bolt combination anchors, with a plastic ‘washer’ and nut. Two anchors on each wall, same horizontal plane. As far as I could tell, the instructions said to drill four holes, install four nylon sleeves, install four lag screw things.
Now, HOW can the sink slip over the four bolts? As far as I can tell, you have to be flush against one wall to slide the holes of the sink over the studs on the opposing wall. Of course, this is impossible with two studs sticking out of the wall. I finally took two screws out, bolted the sink to the other two, put one more in, and now I’m trying to figure out how to get the last one in (not enough room under the sink to get the screw in straight. I had to put two nuts on #3 to use to drive the lag part in and be able to tighten it far enough in to hold. I think I’m going to have to cut part of #4 off to get it short enough, and then borrow another nut to be able to drive it in.
Here is the web site, with “installation notes”. I know I don’t do this for a living, but is it just me or have instructions and manuals turned into complete crap? This is a moderately high end line from American Standard. Italian made I believe. Original measurements are in metric.
Replies
B, from what I read, you install the blocking, why you need the plastic anchors, beats me unless you didn't install the blocking. Either way, the sink gets placed then the bolts get inserted. That you couldn't get the bolt in seems odd, but that does happen. I would think you would be safe having the two outer bolts in and one closer to the corner. With a well mounted box below and the trap cover if it's ceramic or some other solid thing, then you should have plenty of "hang time". But thank you for telling me what a potential sack of #### this porcher line is.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
BS,
We must be looking at different sets of directions, this is what I saw. They may have given you the wrong type lags though.
With lag bolts you can allow the unit to drop down a little till all the bolts are started into the wood 1-2 turns, then pick it up to grade. Lets you start the bolts at an off angle.
Also, the C&P below shows the bolt holes at an angle upwards so as to be perpendicular to the lav mounting surface. That may be critical to get bolt clearance.
You may want to buy some lag bolts and raise the sink 1/2" to new holes drilled at an angle.
Ain't it fun bean a plumbing contractor?
Lavatory Mounting Provisions – Whether the lavatory is used for replacement or new installation, the wall area behind the lavatory basin mounting holes must be reinforced to provide secure mounting of the new unit.
For non-masonry installation, crosspieces must be installed at both the lavatory and cabinet mounting surface locations to ensure adequate support and reinforcement.
Editors note: those plastic inserts are for masonry. st.
STEP 1. Remove wallboard/covering from designated area.
STEP 2. Toenail 2" x 6" (51 mm x 152 mm) crosspieces between studs (or notch studs to accept a 1" x 6"
STEP 3. Replace wallboard/finished wall media.
INSTALLING LAVATORY
STEP 1. Using level, draw vertical and horizontal lines and mark the four hole locations for the lavatory.
STEP 2. Pre-assemble P-trap drain connections
STEP 3. Apply a bead of self-adhesive sealing compound all around the back mounting surfaces of the lavatory.
With assistance, place lavatory into position and loosely fasten the lavatory to the wall using the four anchors provided. Level lavatory side to side and front to rear (place a sheet of tissue under level to protect lavatory), then securely tighten anchors. See diagram below.
STEP 4. Install faucet and drain
SamT
I agree that I don't see the need for the plastic sleeves as I did install blocking, but I didn't see anything that told me NOT to use them so I did.But this is not a picture of the type of bolt that came with the sink. I don't know what they are called, but it has a pointed end with coarse threading, a flat spot (I presume for a wrench to crank them into the wall) and a finer threaded stud section. Then there is a large plastic washer like flange and a nut. In the two outermost holes, there isn't anyway to fit the fastener straight into the hole. You can't crank the fastener into the wall further than the flat spot, and even if you do you are liable to penetrate the wall on the other side.I'm really lovin' the old style hanging sinks (like I removed from this bath). Mount the large solid iron bracket on the wall and slip the sink over it. Similar to a french cleat, my preferred cabinet install.Plus everything is in metric, which would be great if we would switch. I eventually got my metric tape out to verify my measurements.
Now I understand your problem. What came with the sink were STUDS, not bolts. You're right; if you install the studs on both walls, unless the holes in the sink are slotted horizontally, you won't be able to put the sink up.
I think the problem is that the wrong hardware came with the sink.
I'm thinking I might see if I can get the sink in position with the two outer studs in place. Those are the ones I can't insert with the sink in place. And then try to insert the two inner studs with the sink in place.Frankly, the stud design seems like it should be a bit better than just lag screws, as I have more ability to adjust the tightness using the nut. Of course the sink design needs to work with studs...
Oh great, yet another instructin manual written by someone who doesn't know a d**n thing about what they're writing about. I see this crap in a lot of stuff, be it furniture assembly to assembly of toys for my kids.
I just installed a shower valve with this dillema. Followed instructinos to a T trying to be a consciencious plumber and wound up dorking myself in the rear end. They told me to drill the wrong sized hole and to use hte wrong sized fittings.
Some day.....some day we'll find these folks who conspire behind the scenes, laughing at us as we follow their instructions.
It ain't helped by being tranlated out of four languages, followed by multiple sets with slightly different instructions, nor by not being in a reasonable order, like establish 5 level lines at a,b,c,d,e heights. Drill holes at x,y,z of size etc.
I wonder how much more we pay for things just to please a bunch of foreign languages? Amazing how a simple 1 page insturction sheet turns into a 24 page booklet just so that the French, Germans, Austrailians, Mexicans, Spanish, Middle Earthers, etc can follow their instructions.
We pay for the extra paper needed to write them, the translator to translate...hey it maybe $2 or $3 off but I'll take it and run for instructionsI can follow.
Plus so called 'generic' instructions: If you have model ABCD-34569-12 and are reading German, follow step C-3-a. If you have model ABCD-24569-12 (without option x) and are reading Swahilli, go to step C-3-a but ignore installtion of widget. If you are....
Oh God you're driving me nuts already thinking about it again....Christmas is coming and I always have that problem assembling some of my kids toys......UGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH <a charlie brown Uggh>.
Plus so called 'generic' instructions
Ooh, my favorite. An exploded view, and one set of installation destructions. With a footnote to look on the back for different installation conditions (which rarely have illustrations).
That faucet looks pretty on the front page. "See G-2_a1.1 for Deck installations" or "See B1025468 for flush mount sinks" or "some installations many vary, see web site for details" . . . Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Some not quite complete pictures at http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=52225.17Another thing, A dozen places where the drain location is described, and one of them is wrong. Guess which one I went by? Three of us looked at it, thinking it was funny that it was only 1" from the hot supply, but that is clearly what this particular page showed. Shoulda measured the actual drain...If they wanted the mounting holes drilled at an angle (which would have made sense, given the bowl construction) shouldn't they have specified the angle for the 14mm holes?
Yup, you've got studs, not lag bolts. If you don't have the right tool, then threading two nuts on (with possibly a lock washer between) can be used to drive them in - preferably into a hole that they've already been in.
I'll assume that the #4 stud is no different from it's perpendicular mate? That is, you're sure that the #4 stud shouldn't have gone in first?
If so, then cut the sucker shorter, drive it in and be done with it.
Make sure you don't crack the porcelain when you crank the nuts... :-)
Regards,
Tim Ruttan
Yeah, another of my all time favorite instructions: "Don't over tighten or cracking may result". Gee I think I'll count the turns until it cracks, then go an buy another one which I will install with one less turn. What's wrong with giving actual torque specifications?
I wonder if porcelain is uniform enough from casting-to-casting to allow for torque specs?
I tighten bolts into porcelain until my cheapskate-sensing sphincter tightens...
Regards,
Tim Ruttan