What’s your definition of McMansion?
Pursuant to the McMansion/McSlum thread… it seems everyone has a different definition for “McMansion”, altho I gather they’re all rather deragatory.
So, anyone want to share your opinion on what constitutes a McMansion?
Replies
'A house that succeeds primarily in impressing uninformed buyers and guests, but that is mediocre or worse in design and construction.'
The 'Mc' prefix had me stumped for while, given that it's applied to most everything. I think I've got it now. It's used whenever a product fills a 'demand' created by lazy consumers who can't muster up the incentive to act in their own best interest. The idea being, of course, that once you've tasted good food that you won't eat at McDonald's.
The house may or may not be cr4p, but that hardly matters, because the consumer can't be bothered to learn what separates a good house from a bad house. I think that's the meat, right there: consumer apathy. They'll take whatever get's served up, hence the 'Mc.'
That being said, I genuinely love Big Macs, and I've eaten steak tartar in Paris. Which is. . . oh geez, I want a McTartar now. ;-)
<The 'Mc' prefix had me stumped for while, given that it's applied to most everything. I think I've got it now. It's used whenever a product fills a 'demand' created by lazy consumers who can't muster up the incentive to act in their own best interest.>
Hey! I resemble that remark!
Forrest McCanless - McCanless Design, Inc
A two story foyer and a gaudy chandelier is a requisite feature .......View Image
Greater than 1000 square feet per resident with quality that will last long into next week, sited in suburb full of strip malls, where no one talks to their neighbors and commute 20 plus miles to work in an oversized vehicle. Oh, and to be a true McMansion, the owners have to claim to be 'green' because they recycle their newspapers and Bud bottles.
http://www.etherhuffer.typepad.com
With the McDonald's origin in mind, to me a "McMansion" implies a large house (mansion) that is mass produced and lacks individuality. It is not the best built or best looking house, but it is something that can be purchased by masses of people and offers a certain value (perhaps $/sf or something like that) to many people.
Thus, millions and millions served.
I don't hate them like some people here do. I just wouldn't buy one myself (nor would I build one).
Edited 3/21/2008 1:25 am ET by Ragnar17
Any home big enough for a 400 amp service that is not on several acres or an estate.
Wallyo
Edited 3/21/2008 2:17 am ET by wallyo
A large house, often 4k or 5k sq ft on a 1/4 acre - more or less - often mass produced. Often touted as a high end home with vinyl siding. :-)
To me, the Mc means mass produced and generic in nature, but not of high quality.
The one thing that McDonalds does have going for it is that there food is nearly identical no mater where in the states you go to buy it, so you know what to expect. Mexico was a different story :-). Also, I wonder if the "super size me" thing fits in here... or is that even a McDonaldism? I don't eat there any more so am really not sure.
Edited 3/21/2008 4:33 am ET by Matt
front to back door waste....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Masses of tired nervous people (or houses), lined up and trying so hard to believe in what they think they want and have.
Any large house in a development with 10s+ other houses that are on postage stamp sized lots. All the houses will be sided in either white, cream, or beige. Every other house (if not every house) will have faux stone somewhere, and of course the massive entryway with gaudy chandelier that can be seen through the equally massive entryway window.
In my area, additional prerequisites include overgrown "public areas" that the contractor left behind when the orders stopped comming in, crumbling asphalt driveways, expensive gold-leaf signs telling traffic the name of the McMansion Community (i.e., Dingle Berry Hills), the complete absence of trees, pink/orange utility pipes sticking out of the ground marking unsold lots, a Suburban/Yukon/Expedition sharing space the driveway with the Prius, and the extensive use of concrete paver stone retaining walls.
Also, many of the local communities are showcases for the very cheapest siding, HVAC, shingles, flooring, etc., and or their installation. BUT, they all are prewired for surround sound in the media room.
Oh . . . and there is a boat under a tarp in the backyard. I don't know if they grow there or come with the house, but everyone seems to need one even if they never take them out on the water!
Finally, "for sale" signs pop up within a couple years.
Jason
The largest amount of square footage for the least amount of money = Mc Mansion
A McMansion oh I worked on one of those this week. A 900k house with a steel six panel entry door. Pretty impressive I say.
Here's one definition (not mine) fwiw http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMansion
No doubt in my mind it's a derogatory term associated with labels such as "cookie cutter design", "wretched excess", "drywall palaces", poor quality, urban sprawl and so on which seem to come primarily from New Urbanists. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_urbanism Some of these labels are perhaps justified but it's too broad of brush they use and their "solutions" (aka social engineering) trouble me and worse than the "problem". Telling people where they can live, how big of a house they can have, what kind of transportation they can use sounds like Soviet era central planning. Do two people need a 5000 sf home on a postage stamp lot with a four stall garage? Not likely but who are we to tell them? The flight to the suburbs began because cities failed to take care of basics like schools, crime, taxes, and jobs and I believe it won't end yet; New Urbanism may accelerate it with people seeking to escape the reach of central planning authorities such as the Metropolitan Council in the Twin Cities.
Edited 3/21/2008 9:47 am ET by jc21
Edited 3/21/2008 9:55 am ET by jc21
Edited 3/21/2008 10:25 am ET by jc21
Good post, JC.
To me a McMansion is a home built as large as possible for as little as possible. Quality is nowhere to be seen. Poorly designed floor plans only emphasize superficial "wow" factor for those who will not spend more than an hour trying to actually live in the house. The family will find themselves (when they are home, which is rare) huddling in the corner of whichever room has the tv while the rest of the house is empty, finishing off the Pizza Hut Pizza they had delivered because no one has the time, the talent, or the energy to use the $80,000 kitchen. The owners, having put themselves way over their heads finacially, will work their tails off and make more money than average but will never feel like they are getting anywhere. The children will have to go to daycare which costs $$ because the parents are working overtime to pay the giant mortgage and the loans for the two SUV's. Because they make a lot but never seem to get ahead, they will blame their taxes for "stealing" their income, and remain oblivious to the effects of the choices they make. They don't walk anywhere. There are no sidewalks. They rarely go to a library or a park. Soon the very concept of public amenities for the public good begins to seem foreign and vaguely communist. They find themselves looking into private schools but can't imagine how they will find the extra income to pay for it so they keep their children in the public schools but become ever more resentful when the tax bills come in. They will be polite to their neighbors, but they will never really know them. No one sees them outside of their house or car for weeks at a time. No one steps into their back yard unless formally invited to do so. Although the house will easily host a party for 50, there will rarely be more than 4 guests in the house at any one time and never more than 10.The furniture is unremarkable and mismached because the owners don't know the difference. The three-car garage is crammed to the gills with junk, but not a single tool. In 15 years the house will look tired. In 30 years, it will have changed hands 5 times and no one will be able to remember the names of the first three owners. In 40 years it will need major renovation inside and out and the current owner, unable to afford it, will sell it and the new owner will tear it down to build something different.During its entire 40 year life and 6 different owners, no one will have bothered to plant a single tree.
In 15 years the house will look tired. In 30 years, it will have changed hands 5 times and no one will be able to remember the names of the first three owners. In 40 years it will need major renovation inside and out and the current owner, unable to afford it, will sell it and the new owner will tear it down to build something different.
During its entire 40 year life and 6 different owners, no one will have bothered to plant a single tree.
I fear that assessment may be both too optimistic and too pessimistic at the same time.
Personally, I think future owners will know previous owners, but only as names on the title search form.
Trees wil lbe planted, but they will be runty things more dead than alive (selected by price, not suitability).
The big difference between your visin and mine is that I think many of these monsters will either go 1 owner to teardown in 15 years, or 5 owners to teardown over the same period. The way these things are barely put together pretty much obviates any sort of renovation--the "meat" is jsut not there. So, relatively minor (as we would mark them now) changes will cost more to execute than the cost of a new house.
It will be even worse in the "starter" divisions of McHouses--the cruel economies out there may gentrify some of those streets wanted or not (can you picture Nana still living in her 30y/o vinyl-clad house?)Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Easy answer, my BIL's house. It's not really poorly built, but so poorly designed you can't arrange funiture w/o blocking a traffic pattern. Huge master br and 2 dinky br's upstairs, but now has 4 kids and the basement is so chopped up so as to be nearly unusuable. Huge lawn front and rear that takes him 2 days to mow, and he has to keep it mowed just right for his neighbors. He did not realize the brick structures (to mimic gate posts, but no fence?) strongly resemble giant phalluses until it was pointed out to him, I personally think it was a huge joke by the builder. Now his wife had to have a new Denali to go in the 3 car garage when he really needed to put the money back in his business. Glad I'm not him.
My definition of a McMansion is a tract built house contains all the finishes you could walk out the door with, from your local Home Depot.... except the really cheap stuff that even depot won't stock and has to special order.
We could probably start a thread.....
You might be a McMansion owner if....
The only way you can tell which is yours, is by the portable basketball net.
Your kitchen counters are granite but the cabinet shelves don't adjust.
Finishing the basement means adding a 4th HVAC unit.
Gettin into the whirlpool tub without endangering the wedding tackle on the spout just isn't possible.
Oh... I could go on someone stop me.....
During its entire 40 year life and 6 different owners, no one will have bothered to plant a single tree
And, if they did, it would probably be determined that it was in violation of the covenants.
Now that sounds like the american dream.
Well spoken. Clearly a description of the lack of planning these eyesores represent. It is however emblematic of the 'I want it all mentality, spawned in the 50's nurtured in the haze of the 60's and removed from the furnace of the 80's half-baked. This same mentality has fostered such grand ideas as overspending, living beyond one's means, bankruptcy of convenience, spawning children who will become ill mannered louts and last but not least-- asking the nanny state to pick up the tab for everything! Remember your vote counts in Nov 2008. Do not waste it (as well as your future tax dollars) on a poorly conceived plan.
<i>The flight to the suburbs began because cities failed to take care of basics like schools, crime, taxes, and jobs </i>
You forgot to include racism in your list.
By gosh, that's just the house I was thinking of!! Got tons of them around here.
Pretty darn good definition - thanks for the post!!
I think a McMansion is a large house meant to impress others. Quality is not necessarily a consideration. They have trendy details that mimic expensive and well engineered details from traditional Georgian homes, castles etc, but with fake applied improperly scaled materials. They generally have a plethora of materials and styles mismatched together to produce a McMonster.
And the McVehicle which is usually supersized, or otherwise attention getting.
And the McGarage which has at least 3 doors, one being supersized for the McRecreational vehicle and atv's for the McCamping trips where the generator runs all night keeping the tent campers awake.
Yeah, the McMansion people really impress me. There are some innocent victims of the McMansion craze, and I do feel sorry for them. Forgive them for they did not understand what they have done.
This is an enlightening thread. We hear the term tossed around quite liberally and I think everyone that has posted so far has identified the characteristics that are attached to this label are used in a stereotypical kind of way.
I think what would be more fascinating to know is how the characteristics or ideas that are embodied in a "Mcmansion" are perceived by the people that purchase them. That is, how is the house a reflection of the owners values, wants and desires?
Edited 3/21/2008 9:41 am ET by ted
A house that says "Hey! Look at how well off I am!" in the most in your face way possible.
It's amazing the number of people who can likely afford the best fillet mignon instead opt for a Big Mac.
Runnerguy
A house that says "Hey! Look at how well off I am!" in the most in your face way possible.
Hell thats not a McMansion trait, I see that in true mansions!
<Hey! Look at how well off I am!" <
With me, it's more like -
"Hey! Look how, well, "off" I am!"
Forrest - off
Congratulations!
McDesign receives the much coveted
MrT/brownbagg OneLiner Award.
Saaalute!View Image View Image
Peach full,easy feelin'.
Ohhh! Be still my beating heart! It's everything I ever imagined!
Forrest - feeling like I've arrived
Is it not amazing what a little change in punctuation will do?
Loved your post!
share your opinion on what constitutes a McMansion?
I've probably shared too much <g>
One of my cronies offered up the difference from tract-built McHouse and McMansion--McMansion has no vinyl showing on the outside and uses the cheapest, shortest-lifespan "architectural" shingles. Also, the occupants will actually own furniture for their unused Formal Dining Room and Formal Living Room (those rooms being empty in their previous McHouse . . . )
Around here: Minimum of 4K SF, generally closer to 6K. Roof pitch 12/12 or better (looks more impressive that way), a sort of pseudo-colonial style with wide trim. Prominent attached garage, generally 3 bays. Full basement, though often at least partly unfinished. The first floor has 9-10 foot ceilings. Large, open kitchen, but not high-end appliances. Numerous mystery rooms -- you're not sure what you'd use them for.
Interior finish uses lots of varnished wood, but upon close examination the workmanship is poor.
And, as someone else said, the exterior is painted some sort of off-white color, usually two-tone.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
A Mc Mansion is a 4,500 sq ft house located on a 3,000 sq ft lot way out of town on what used to be perfectly good farmland or former Superfund site. There is not a tree in sight (they got in the crews' way). The tallest vegetation is 12 inches. The surreal feeling of boredom and alienation is propitious to teenage drug use and school shootings.
A McMansion says a lot about its owner; unfortunately, none of it seems to be good.
My big question is, 30 or 50 years from now, what do you think will become of those McMansion neighborhoods? Also, 100 years ago, did people similarly disparage then-new neighborhoods of Craftsman houses on small lots? If so, are McMansions today's Craftsmans and are we just being snobs?
Let's face it, every previous generation has decried the general taste level of the current generation and vice versa. And, yes, there were those back in the days of catalog houses and bungalows who thought them low-class, tho they were generally the "upper-class".
50 years from now a catalog house, bungalow,craftsman, 4-square or colonial will still be viable even tho it may be smaller than buyers would want. We have tons of these little gems in Huntsville that people can't wait to buy, small or not. Because they are in the city, they are built close to the lot lines, but they don't look the worse for it. They're in scale, well-proportioned, their architectural ornament is appropriate, and they have great curb appeal.
50 years from now a McMansion will still be badly proportioned with little real character inside or out. The stuck-on mouldings, pilasters, and excessive ornament etc., are going to look corny. The exterior still won't invite you in, and the interior will still feel sterile. Time doesn't improve bad design.
I predict people will still be buying bungalows, however.
completely un-necissary and overly complicated roof line meant to add "character" absurd 2 -story foyerfaux siding
faux stone
faux wood
faux woodworkmiraculous" maintenance free materials"-----that need to be replaced every 10-15 years---instead of simply being paintedA kitchen no one ever cooks in( do ya really need a $80,000 kitchen to keep your lean cuisine in??????---does a sub-zero fridge make your low-carb pizz water beer taste better?) the 3 MILFS in the neighborhood have to push their jogging strollers in the street----there ARE no sidewalksirritating winding,pointlessly confusing street layouts
no retail establishement any where remotely with-in walking distance house will contain movie screen sized TV-----but no booksthere will be 2 or 3 days worth of mouldering and un-read Wall Street journals soaking up rain at the end of the driveway Absence of a functional porch----but presence of a battleship sized "deck" raping the back yardthe streets will be named after something you would expect to find in a Beatrix Potter book---but the creatures will ironically have been destroyed to make room for the developement.and of course---a "W" bumper sticker on the Hummer( I feel better--that was FUN!)
stephen
This morning on the NatGeo channel there was an interesting program on housing and living small in Tokyo.
Tune in next time it airs and see the "mansion" apartments that generally were less than 300 square feet!!! The tours of architect-designed homes, mostly under 700 sf, had lots of ideas on how to make small live big.
Made me feel a little guilty in my 1500 square feet, even tho that's considered tiny in this day and age....
Around here, God forbid that anyone would have the gall to put wood or Hardie siding on a house, let along anything "faux". The requirement here is bland, boring brick, lately being combined with stone veneer (that has no relation or compatibility to the brick) stuck on one elevation.
Most of the subdivisions here require brick on almost every surface. Woe be to the stranger in town who wants to build a cape...it's against the covenants!!
We do have our share of those little W's, though.
Yeah, parts of the South (starting in Louisville) seem to be hung up on brick to one degree or another. But nowhere can beat Toronto for abusing the medium.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
Re the usage of brick, some of it might just have to do with what is readily available. Maybe brick is cheaper in some parts of the country? Here it is about $215/1k for the least expensive modular. How about where you are? Anyone else?
BTW - re your comment about varnished moldings - we don't see that much here. I think people think it looks very dated. Regional styles....
There are lots of good clay deposits along the river ca 50 miles from here, but brick is relatively rare. You do see it more in the river towns.I don't recall what I said about varnished moldings, but many of the McMs have the uber-wide colonial style white-painted trim inside. In general they overdo the woodwork. "Less is more" certainly isn't their credo.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
subdivisions here require brick on almost every surface. Woe be to the stranger in town who wants to build a cape...it's against the covenants!!
Too true in too many places.
A number are now inveigling against "cultured" or faux finishes, too--even when the appearance would be exactly the same (but with 5 or 6 times the energy efficiency).
Mind you, that's better here locally, than blocks of Capes and Mock-capes, since a less-suitable for the climate form is hard to imagine.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
What saddens me is the conception around here that any house built with anything less than brick veneer is seen as "low class" and undesirable. One hasn't arrived until one lives in that cookie-cutter, bland brick beauty...
the conception around here that any house built with anything less than brick veneer is seen as "low class" and undesirable
LoL! My favorite is asking the ARB if they know that the brick is on common wood framing, just like virtually every other house in Namerica?
The numbers who are shocked that brick on the outside does not mean brick on the inside ought not surprise me anymore, but still does . . .
Then. about May they all want to know what they can do to make their walls cooler . . . maybe if they put a sprinkler on them . . . ?Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
do ya really need a $80,000 kitchen to keep your lean cuisine in??????---does a sub-zero fridge make your low-carb pizz water beer taste better?)
Ah, you've hit on that diciest of distinctions, especially since the only "comfortable" room in most of these structures is the "family room" abutting directly to the kitchen.
A critical question that buyers ought to be making, whether McHouse or McMansion ought to be either "Why am I spending $80K for a kitchen I cannot cook in?" or "Why am I spending $80K on a kitchen I'm never going to cook in?"
Sadly, both statements tend to be true. Nothing like seeing a $4K kitchen design tarted up with tens of thousands of eye candy that does nothing. Saw one the other day where they hung a solid granite "eating bar" (said so on the plans). Said bar was on a pony wall defining the edge of the kitchen, which was perched over a sunken "family room." So, picture that 12" deep (to the nosing) granite hung off that wall, which was 52" tall to the backsplash top on the family room side. Looked like a battlement, not a design feature.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
do ya really need a $80,000 kitchen to keep your lean cuisine in??????---does a sub-zero fridge make your low-carb pizz water beer taste better?)
How better to make yourself look cultured and successful than having a kitchen to die for. Makes your visitors feel inadequate, subservient and in awe of the homeowner.
Yup, they NEED "the kitchen" to carry on the illusion.
By the way, I know a cabinetmaker who says many Mcmansion owners can't afford decent furniture, so they rent a housefull for parties. It takes a gob of furniture to fill one of those places.
Makes your visitors feel inadequate, subservient and in awe of the homeowner.
Only if they don't know anything about cooking <g>
Yup, they NEED "the kitchen" to carry on the illusion.
I've been looking, but cannot find the photo ofthe model house on the parade of homes that had a kitchen about 19' x 28' and a work triangle of about 10-11'. An impressive, by price tag, triangle though--6 burner wolf, double sub-zero, most expensice triple-bowl kohler made and two DW. And if you used any one of those, no one else could. Oven door, ref'r door, or either dw door trapped who ever was on the other side. Pretty counter tops, though.
owners can't afford decent furniture, so they rent a housefull for parties. It takes a gob of furniture to fill one of those places.
Well, we'll leave aside that they probably would not recognize decent furniture even if it bit them . . . <G>
But, gee, in my party days, i wanted to stash the furniture someplace else so the drunks would ruin less of it . . . <g> Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Why am I spending $80K for a kitchen I cannot cook in?" or "Why am I spending $80K on a kitchen I'm never going to cook in?"
Because the realtor said that's what sells. (Don't let's get started on that subject....)So, when you decide to move up in 3 years, you'll be assured your kitchen is palatable, pardon the pun.
The builder I work for has a new realtor who told him the kitchens and trim work in his houses aren't up to par (kitchens are nice, but basic due to the budgets given). Builder tells me to visit the realtor website and look at 2 or 3 particular house tours.
Omigod!!! 4 different types of pediments (none architecturally correct and all too big) within 3 rooms visible from each other. So much "wedding cake" stuck on the upper kitchen cabinets that many of them were only 12" wide. One plan actually tried to sandwich 2 entire Corinthian order columns, 34"high, on either side of the now-ubiquitous angled sink cabinet. You do not want to know what the ensuing granite treatment was like for that area.
The reason you can't cook in them is that whoever is designing these houses has never looked at an appliance spec since the 70's, has never tried to unload dishes from a DW to cabinets that are miles away, doesn't understand that you can't put the legs of a mantel-style hood an 1" from a pro-style (or any other) range, and certainly has never done anything more in the kitchen than pour a cup of coffee.
Cap'n, we're getting what we're asking for - "status". The sad thing is that very few people buying in the Mc range even think to ask why they're paying.....
Thanks for letting me vent!
Thanks for letting me vent!
No sweat.
I spent a bit more than a half-decade in case work, 5-10 kitchens a day (80% tract built) 5 days a week 48 or 49 weeks the year--and I know I have not seen every bad kitchen plan (and far more than I needed to).
Was a plan I still remember, world's worst U plan. How so? 8' x 19'. 19' wall was 36" space for boxed-in fridge, 27' cabinet for 24' wall oven combo, then sink and dw halfway down the rest, corner cab, cooktop in the 36" short leg of the U, then a 10' peninsula counter. Did I mention that the kitchen window was 20x16 fixed glaxing not centered on the sink? Or that the BI regularly red-tagged the plan as built since they'd forget to frame the window to allow for a counter top outlet(s)? builder would then try to backcharge us for building the cabinets to his plan, which he failed to build to . . .
Do not miss that at all.
Now, we have also not adressed the other side of this, that there are McHouses out with nothing more than glorified condo kitchens, which really, really, but O really makes the 18 x 28 x 24' Formal dining room usable (guess the caterers set up in the garage, or maybe the unused formal living room . . . )Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Now that was one convenient kitchen!!
My 2 favorites:
Huge kitchen with 12' between an island with the only sink and the wall with the fridge and range. There were no wall or base cabinets anywhere near the sink; they were located on an adjacent wall at least 8' away from anything. Apparently designed for use with roller skates or a golf cart.
Kitchen drawn up for a client who wanted immediate access frm her work area to her outdoor entertaining area with a bar sink & uc fridge near the door. Fellow who designed the kitchen drew up an L-shape with an island (customer wanted an island), but the peninsula of the L was almost 13' long and was right inside the door to the deck. I asked the client if she was proficient in broad jump or the vault.
We did 2 islands, and it's still one of my favorite spaces.
My builder's electrician is famous for not moving the outlets that end up behind the cooktop (not GFCI, either). Sometimes it's just a matter of the plan being revised and the outlet ends up in the wrong place, so it's not his fault. But still...how do they get these things approved by the BI??
how do they get these things approved by the BI??
Dunno. Only time I ever saw them they were papering red tags, seemed like.
Ooh, should we broach bad bathroom design? I know a real winner (or 97).Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
ya - they plant a tree - in the compacted subsoil left after the lot was scraped by heavy equipment, then they skin it up every time they mow - not to mention they are never there to water when it's dry - it's just a feeling of relief that the drought means they don't have to mow that week - "there's enough for everyone"
"So, anyone want to share your opinion on what constitutes a McMansion?"
I don't have one. I hate all these new catch phrases and word's of the day.
also ... it's most always used as a derogatory term to describe someone's house ... and usually "someone else's" house. And I gererally don't care how other people design, decorate or spend their own money.
not my house ... not my concern.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
I posted a comment earler in this thread but one thing that maybe defines a McMansion is the detailing is all wrong. All the elements are there of course but their proportions are all out of whack when compared to the historical counterparts they are supposed to represent.
For example, a house will have a 30' wide front portico supported by four columns. Well, the architrave and frieze, instead of being probably 30+" deep are 12" because that's all it took to cover up the 2X12's that make up the beam. And the colums will be these pencil sticks that begs the eye to imagine a collapse.
And don't get me started on dormers........
A builder attaches a label like "Georgian" , "Federal" or "Colonial" and everyone lines up with their checkbooks even though there's nothing there that remotely depicts those architectural styles.
Runnerguy
You hit on one of my pet peeves. If I, a mere kitchen/interior designer, keep reference copies of the architectural orders (columns, capitals, entablatures) beside my computer, so can the freakin' house designers and builders. I also have several books of old and new millwork details and houses for reference.
Can't these folks tell that this stuff looks screwy??
Can't these folks tell that this stuff looks screwy
Well if they are marketing weasels, then no, they can't <g>
Near as i can tell every one else uses the "looks good enuf' from my house" rule.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
A mere Kitchen/Interior Designer? Mere? There is no stinkin 'mere' in any design problem.
Nothing, absolutely nothing, angers me more than the assumption that since a future HO has used a kitchen, however infrequently, that they know all about the layout and the best use of materials and styles and colors.
I have had the lady of the house sit down across from me with a dozen or so pages ripped from magazines showing (instructing) me to put all the details they like into one room. "OK, but the gothic isn't going to meld into colonial/comtemporary/farmhouse styles very well. And the hand hewn beams with the track lighting on them may not work with your vision." Arghhhh!
I have books ('Ruskins' Lecture series, 1890ish about the oldest) that can define pretty much any style but I end up fighting to maintain even a semblence of consistency of one style. And function? "My girlfriend has a phenominal Kitchen and I just must have one just like it!" Please! Take me now Jesus!
Hang in there, once in a while we get to have fun with a receptive client!
ciao, ted
You know, I had a lady contact me by phone early last year saying she was building a house and was going to need help with her kitchen. It wasn't a referral, she just found the showroom I work thru in the phone book. She wanted to know what was the current "thing" in kitchens, what is everybody doing? She was going to build a "custom" home in some upper-end sub, and it had to have all the current ideas so it would increase in value. Of course, she really didn't cook, etc.
She didn't believe that many of my clients wanted their kitchens tailored to their personal style. She insisted I tell her what everyone else was doing, and when I told her she didn't like that answer, either! She finished up by insinuating that perhaps I wasn't qualified to work on custom homes. I probably should have told her that I had just finished one with cabinetry that cost in the $65,000-$70,000 range for the kitchens & baths and listened to her chin drop. Mostly these folks talk a good story, but tell them how much it actually costs and the talk drops off.
Often my problem here is that I'm not trying to work within a style, I'm trying to create one out of whole cloth to match the congealed-salad style of the house itself. Oh, I probably should tell you that, in the south, a congealed salad is jello based and usually has about 15 ingredients that you wouldn't ever think went together!
On the whole, tho, I am truly blessed with clients. However, I'm unusually cursed with builders & contractors!
She finished up by insinuating that perhaps I wasn't qualified to work on custom homes.
It's great when you can 'pre-qualify' a potential customer so quickly! :)
You betcha!! I was only that dumb once...
She didn't believe that many of my clients wanted their kitchens tailored to their personal style
Why people believe that "custom" means "just like everyone else" is clean beyond me.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Susie
I probably should have told her that I had just finished one with cabinetry that cost in the $65,000-$70,000 range for the kitchens & baths and listened to her chin drop.
Not to diss what you do but 65 to 70K for kitchens and baths isn't at the high end of the spectrum. Don't get me wrong, I don't have that much in my kitchens and baths but for that money your not doing really high end homes.
Now granted high end homes will often come with trophy kitchens and maybe you don't want to work on or have anything to do with trophy kitchens, sounds so from what I'm reading here on this thread.
I think that's what Grant/seeyou was insinuating with his thread about everybody posting pics of their own houses. Easy to cut everybody else's houses down, list all the things you don't like about everybodies McMansion................. I think that was the implication of the snobbery comment on his thread!
I on the other hand love to do the trophy kitchens, lot more fun than the practical ones! I don't care what people are going to do with their homes, none of my business, don't care who they're trying to impress, I know that that's what they're doing but its still more fun to work on them. I may even disagree with the design and look of many of them but again, not my place so what should it matter to me.
Doug
I'm intrigued by your fondness for the trophy kitchen. It offers you the opportunity to showcase your skills, doesn't it?
Somehow, this makes me think of Versailles, and other European palaces. Versailles is more or less the epitome of form over function. . . I can't imagine a less practical structure. Or imaginative, for that matter - it's just a series of rooms.
400 years later, though, it's still a big deal. I was in awe when I saw it.
Yeah, it was a trophy, but it was a well-done tropy! Can't say as much for some of the current ones...
I'm intrigued by your fondness for the trophy kitchen.
Hell yes, there fun to do.
I worked for a track builder, after installing 100 sets of generic cabinets the thrill is gone! You've seen one set of oak cabinets you've seen em all.
I don't care if the kitchens that I work on ever get used, why would I? It's none of my business if these people want these kitchens to impress their friends, they worked for the money, who the hell am I, or anyone else for that matter, to tell them that because they don't use a fancy kitchen then they have no right to have one.
I worked on a house/complex down in Austin TX, located right on Lake Austin, the guy had several buildings on his property, within all those buildings he had 8 different kitchens, one set up in the garage for caterers to use when he held large functions, the others were in the guest house, exercise house, pool house, servants house, boat house and two in the main house. It was my understanding that this guy couldn't boil water! Each of these kitchens were full inset walnut door/drawers, Viking appliances fancy hammered copper sinks and vent hoods............but they didn't get used? why would anybody care whether or not the guy used the stuff? He earned his money, he should get to spend it the way he sees fit.
I think its funny when people complain about these people, don't they have anything else to worry about?
Doug
No, I agree that 60-70K for kitchens and baths isn't at the high end for many areas of the country, but it certainly is around here. The owner of the house those cabinets were installed in was told that he could probably list the house for 1.2 and get it, which is pretty pricey in this area.
And, no, I really don't want to work in the realm of trophy anythings. I'd really much rather work with a client of modest means who's wants their dream to come true on an average or below-average budget. Sure, I don't get to try out all the ideas in my head, but I like problem solving best and that scenario exercises my creativity more than just sticking stuff upon stuff in a kitchen. Where's the challenge in that?
I care about what homes and kitchens and appliances and doorknobs and utensils, etc. look like because I'm a designer. I've been looking at houses and rooms and kitchens and whatever since I was a child. I'm a sucker for beauty and proud of it.
I care about the current state of design because I don't see it enhancing our lives, and I don't see it growing or trying to expand beyond the current limited vision.
I'd like us to realize that the current trends are wasteful. I'd like us to realize that we don't live in a world where we can do anything we want with resources without it affecting anyone else.
End of story...anyone else agree or disagree?
"My girlfriend has a phenominal Kitchen and I just must have one just like it!"
Can you build me one just like it, but for 50% less?
Oh, and my [insert relative nere] is a decorator, who says it has to be a tuscan kitchen, too.
Which ought to fit into the half-brick; half-shingle; half-Cape; half-rancher design oh so well . . . .Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Entertaining thread with lots of good definitions. Of course, just like fast food, McMansions are no longer cheap. There's a house going up in my town that will go on the market for over $2M that I still consider a McMansion.
I recently heard the term "McTearDown" being used, so get ready for that one in your town.
"McTearDown"
Is that when people realize the error of their ways and raze the McMansions in order to build real homes?
I'm not optimistic enough to believe anyone would raze a McMansion to build anything but another McMansion in its place.
From the postings, I think there are really two main categories emerging. McMansions are largely new construction in new developments, while McTearDowns are new construction in established neighborhoods typically involving razing a small house. Which is the greater evil? Hard to say.
Both are evils, for lack of a better word, but probably the slighter greater evil is the Mcteardown. Their construction begins to destroy the neighborhood fabric. Good design comes not so much from designing objects as that of creating relationships and a McTeardown cares nothing about relationships.
I live in a neighborhood with an ongoing teardown and rebuild process going on (I'm in the process of doing my own house posted somewhere in the "McMansion Challenge" thread). We have a few atrocities of course but fortunatly there's one architect in town (I'm an architect too) that a lot of people use and he has a great sense of design and proportion so some would be abortions are averted.
Runnerguy
In Texas, they're referred to as "Texas Big Hair" houses.
Think of Ann Richards with her hair-do as the roof.
My idea of a McMansion is a house that fits the phrase,
"Do you want to supersize that for 10 cents more?"
It's too big for the neighborhood, poorly built, just full of unnecessary filler and really doesn't do anything good for anyone.
Generally applied to any home, regardless of size, which dwarf's the homes in the neighborhood in size. Typical examples are 2,200 sq foot bunglows next to a three story home.
It changes the character of the neighborhood and lacks architectural continuity with existing homes.
Regards,
Scooter
"I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow." WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934
Sort of like the people who build a modern "statement" house next to a Dutch Colonial in an older neighborhood and brag about how they've included details that "refer to", and so "blend in" with the other homes in the area.
The emperor still has no clothes....
I posted a new thread in "general" to show the most hideous McMansion - just to help everyone.
Forrest - snarky
Susie
I earlier gave my personnel definition of a McMansion but here they tend to run like the attachment, it was built in 2006 and is still available for 5,698,000 for 12,000 square feet.
But it was like the designers shot it up with steroids, four kitchens (as a designer it would of given you plenty of work), four laundries, two master showers big enough for 4 people each.
Four those that hate open to belows count them. I toured the thing, it was a Parade of Homes house. Anyone out there has an interest in buying it e-mail me I will get you the MLS number a finders fee will be charged.
All this on just under 2 acres.
Wallyo
Edited 3/24/2008 9:03 pm ET by wallyo
Edited 3/24/2008 9:06 pm ET by wallyo
Wallyo,
Dear heavens!! It's the developer's idea of what God would do if he had the money.
You'd have to drop bread crumbs to keep from getting lost!
What really mystifies me is how the owners seem oblivious to the ridicule. I've read countless articles in newspapers, trade journals, magazines, etc. that use the term "McMansion". I wonder if the millions of owners of these things even have a clue that everyone else is making fun of their lifestyle and housing choice.
Based on everyone's descriptions, I am amazed at how consistent the stereotype is across the country, right down to the absence of landscaping.
The ultimate is no window coverings--- "that's the style"(really can't afford"
And the biggest: very little furniture----"minimalist" (still can't afford after buying the house)
Even better are the temporary paper shades that are still up 2 years later. Some subdivisions actually put a time limit on the time those can be up!
am amazed at how consistent the stereotype is across the country, right down to the absence of landscaping
Well, the big national tract builders are largely responsible, and they are outproducing the rest of "us" by 5 or 10 to one. Producing virtually the same product in every location. Then you get the microzoft/Lada effect of "market share"--every one else seems to have one, so the becomes the standard, excepting kooks, cranks, and artiste types, and we all know about that sort . . . <knowning glance> [irony]Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Pursuant to RH's post...
Why are there so many of these things out there?
Why do they all look alike in many ways? Is there a cult of house designers churning out these things?
Why don't we know any better??
I think Susie it has to do with no longer keeping up with the Jones but surpassing the Jones, then the Jones need to surpass the Smiths. Some fault may lay with This Old House and cable channels telling us we need a stock pot faucet mounted on the wall above the stove (the stupidest thing to be installed in a kitchen, you can't carry a pot of cold water to the stove but you can carry a pot of boiling water to the sink). It is spending beyond our limits, we are told you need, you need, you need, 16 hours a day. A lot of us are getting a government stimulus check and we are told by the people giving it to us go out and spend it, they are not saying give 25% to a charity and pay down your credit card with the rest, that would be a disaster. They want you to spend it and charge the other half to your card.Is there a cult of designers I think so look at Frank Betz http://www.frankbetz.com/index.htmlClick on Craftsmen style some have some craftsmen flair the rest look like the southern living collection you should be insulted by this. Most of us don't know better, a lot of schools are no longer teaching art to our kids. People would ratter take their kids to NFL game or a nascar then go to a museum and show them some art. So they learn that to appear rich and cultured you need a Sub Zero.There are Champions on the other side like Sarah Susanka and the not so big house, Most of Frank Lyod Wrights houses were not very big, His kitchens were on small side. baths toilet, sink and a five foot tub.
Wallyo
Edited 3/25/2008 1:53 am ET by wallyo
With FLW, the kitchen was in the realm of the servants, so who cared what it was like? (Servants, or the wife, again, who cared? Not he.) BTW, FLW was a little guy (5'-2", IIRC), so five foot bath tubs and six foot ceilings were fine with him.
Danno I should of made a point I was talking more of the Usonian houses he designed for the every day man. But even on a larger FLW house the focus was not the bath and kitchen. The HollyHock house has a rather small galley kitchen, dining room right off it, the table sat six, the owners were not big on dinner parties. He also hated garages preferred carports, why you can't fill a carport up with junk like you can a three or four car garage.Look at the master bath on the plan I posted last night it is as big as my house, FLW would of never dreamt of such a thing.Wallyo
Edited 3/25/2008 10:54 am ET by wallyo
I have several books of old house (especially catalog house) plans, and one thing they have in common is a small kitchen, generally in the back corner of the house.
Since these homes were built by the newly empowered, servantless middle class, I don't think we can attribute smallish kitchens to the fact that they were used by servants. (In fact, kitchens meant to be used by servants are often larger to accommodate 2-4 people in the space). Sizeable kitchens were unnecessary in a world where the homemaker was the only cook and walk-in closets were unheard of. If you wanted to visit with the cook, you pulled up a chair to the kitchen table that she was using to roll out dough. There was a dining room for the family, but I'd bet lots of meals were eaten in the kitchen after the meal prep was cleared away.
Meal prep, however, was not considered something to be shared with guests or the entire population of the neighborhood in the evenings when lights were on. Today we want our guests and family to share the kitchen space, but the plans that are offered by home designers often make guests nothing more than onlookers perched on ridiculously high bar stools since there's not enough usable counter space for even the single cook. So we might as well have the smaller, somewhat isolated kitchen. At least the mess in the kitchen stayed in the kitchen!
but surpassing the Jones,
Well, "we" are probably too materialistic a society by any measure, but, I'm not sure that's the full drive of it.
To me, our "target audience" lives in design-less apartments of dublious repair until they can scrape to gether a downpayment or marry into a loan for one. They then serach around for what they can buy with their brand new note. That takes them out in the sticks into a tract subdivision. Like their last dozen apartments, these are comfortably white on the inside, things they recognize are clumped in familiar lumps--but, They Are Big, and They Are New, seems to be the impression these people get. For better or worse, they equate New with "No Problems" (unlike the broke-down, barely maintained rent properties they had been in).
Their lives are still going on, too. So, they get promotions, or have to relocate. They "know" their old house had som problems, but that's because it was smaller, so a slightly bigger house ought to fix that. So, they move up from one tract shack to another.
Then, if they get into the "real" money, then they use their extensive knowledge of bad housing to build their "mansions." The tract builders see those things, and emulate them for their "top end" houses. Those plans then all wind up in plan books and spread far and wide like burger wrappers discarded across the landscape.
the not so big house, Most of Frank Lyod Wrights houses were not very big, His kitchens were on small side. baths toilet, sink and a five foot tub
Well, FLW, for one, would draw houses with large footprints--but they had "spaces" in them. If they have a modern flaw, it's that they have designs often predicated on "help" in the service spaces, and a tendency to unique structural systems (they do not translate into barrier-free per se, very well either). I've struggled trying to find a way to balance the elegance of the Usonians with the realities of 1 & 2 "cook" kitchens. No great success there.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Around here a McMansion is generally a move up from a starter home. Folks tend to buy them, with their dozens of bedrooms, when their kids are about 18 and ready to move out of the house.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
"... like burger wrappers discarded across the landscape."
Nice!
Allen
Nice!
Serendipity.
Was out on Good Friday photographing the blooming wildflowers. Saw a page from a local RE guide, which is printed on newsprint with one of those 4x6" planbook plans on the page-- in the verge, the litter caught my eye (but not the shutter). The rest was alliteration of rememory.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
you can't carry a pot of cold water to the stove but you can carry a pot of boiling water to the sink).
Not only that, but you get to carry the stuff you put in the boiling pot to the sink., too. Leave it to designers to decide that they don't really need a sink nearer the stove, they need the overpriced gadget that they saw in a manor house kitchen or commercial restaurant.
I have to agree that, besides offering up some atrocious designs, the home imp channels are encouraging us toward "more, more" instead of "quality, quality".
When you do find a program on smaller scaled living, it's usually 500 sf spaces in premium urban areas, which is pretty far removed from the realm of the average homeowner.
However, check out the Cottages & Bungalows and Cottage Living Magazines for some refreshing alternatives to overbuild!
Not only that, but you get to carry the stuff you put in the boiling pot to the sink., too.
Pot filler only makes sense in a kitchen where the smallest pot of boiling water you use is a 4 or 5 gallon one--lugging 35# of water to the already running stove a bear in a commercial kitchen.
Ah, I'm setting the parking brake, as I can go on and on on how people "want" a commercial kitchen about proportionately to the time they've spent working in one (or their first question would be about 12" floor drains with primers and grinders).Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
<Why don't we know any better??>
Hell - we send kids to low-bidder schools ringed with white classroom trailers; what do we expect? What's gonna inspire them - the mall?
Forrest
Concerning the absence of landscaping: any shrub or tree means you have to mow around it and when you are mowing your yard with a tractor that many golf course owners would envy, any tree or bush is only an obstacle to getting the yard mowed quickly so you can have your low carb beer and sit in front of the TV and imagine you are one of the players you are watching.
Here are four typical McMansions from our area. All have finished, walkout basements, so they're considerably larger than they appear, ranging probably from 5K to 8K square feet. Typically they have fiber-cement siding on the sides, though the fronts are largely masonry of one sort or another. Note the wide trim and neutral color schemes, and the front-facing 3-car garages. Inside they tend toward either lots of varnished wood or the wide, white-painted trim. Often there are rooms with no obvious use or purpose, such as the room above the garage in the first shot that contains no electrical outlets (presumably having been declared a closet, in spite of the window). The lots are probably in the neighborhood of a third of an acre.
All are, so far as I know, spec homes -- in my mind a common attribute of McMansions. Prices range from about $600K to maybe $1.2 million, depending both on the size of the house and its proximity to the nearby golf course.
I'm thinking that the third one is the one that has a putting green in the basement.
Note that I said that these are "typical" -- neither the best nor the worst. There are definitely larger and more expensive homes in Rochester, but these are only a half mile from our house in the outer burbs.
Dan
What would those houses run?
Doug
Like I said, $600K to maybe $1.2M, maybe a bit more.
What is wanted is not the will to believe, but the will to find out, which is the exact opposite. --Bertrand Russell
Sorry Dan, didnt see the prices that you mentioned. Often times I go strait to the pictures!
Doug
Susie I got some exterior photo to go with the plans I posted earlier.Wallyo
Edited 3/31/2008 12:45 am ET by wallyo
Picture is as bad as the plan, maybe worse.
2 things proved:
1) Landscaping can be just as badly done and inappropriate as the house it surrounds.
2) You can get turn on enough lightbulbs in a house to be seen in space.
Sorry if I missed it earlier, but did you mention where the subdivision was?
I need to get out with my camera and get some of the local color....
Susie That house is in a town called Eagle Idaho, It once was a little quite horse, farming and cattle town no one paid it any mind when I moved here. It is not far from the Capital, Boise, but 15+ years ago it was in the sticks, If for some reason you drove there it was a real good reason. I do not know what to equate it to in you neck of the woods, but since you hail from Chicago the best I can think of is Oak Park during F L Wrights time, it has become a posh up and coming town, except they build them on some of the best farm land in the valley instead of tearing down houses, Then they all get in there cars at 7:30 am and drive to Boise and drive back at 5pm. Oh some of the houses set on an acre and they have a horse or two so they can pretend they are farmers, probably get an agg exemption on there property taxes.. Here is a link to more of that builders homes, not all are huge, but you have the 4280 sf Provence with a whopping 3 bedrooms.http://kastera.com/home-designs.phpOh the photos you looked at, the one at night, the house sits on a man made water feature with fake water falls all over the place the sub division is called Two Rivers, Which is built in the middle of a river on an Island and every few years they complain when their houses get water in the crawl space and they want somebody to do something about it. For God sakes man you house is in the middle of a river!Oh I could rant on and on.Wallyo
Apparently I'm not the only one who can't sleep tonight...
Been a long time since I've been in Chicago, but I remember many neighborhoods with splendid houses of all types from when my Dad would drive to downtown by way of regular streets. I remember also several neighborhoods in Hammond, Ind, (which was next door to the suburb where we moved) that I loved for us to drive through on my way to my piano teacher's 1930 Art Deco house. I'd love to find a newer neighborhood that had even a third as much charm!
It's especially heartbreaking for me when good dirt is chewed up for houses. Probably due to the fact that I haven't since topsoil since we moved south!
Here is a different way to look at this problem.
Start a roofing co.. All these houses will need a roof eventually and then
they will find out thes complicated roofs they require, are mighty
expensive. I figure if you start now, in 10-15 years you will be rolling
in the money. I look at this and figure that this is gods gift to all the
roofers in the US. All those 20-25 yr. builders shingles will be needing
to be replaced. Man I can't wait!!! Shoot I just remembered i'm
53 and I will be to old to be climbing on roofs, oh well, I guess all the young roofers will be happy.
I have framed so many of these, complicated roofs, that are so wrong.
I don't understand why they need to have acres of roofing to be pretty.
Since I'm in the houses to measure when they've just completed the framing, I can tell you I've seen some pretty creative ways to hold up these crenellated rooflines.
Have also seen one house where no one apparently could figure out a support for a particularly crazy convergence and so there was none! Wasn't apparent until several years later when the owner was bumping out the back of the house. Surprise! Now you get to work on the puzzle, too!
You know, I badly need a new roof. Bet I could entirely re-roof my little ranch with what falls off those McMansion roofs!
you have probably seen your share of why did they do this.
Framing on some of these MCMansions can get pretty complicated.
I remember one house we lost the original bid to build, but we made
more when we had to go in and straighten out the mess. Production
framers have no business on thesehomes.
A picture says a thousand words, here's a million or so:
http://inmancustomhomes.com/gallery.htmhttp://garrybrasch.com/our_designs.php
Man, those pictures perfectly illustrate what runnerguy was just saying - absolutely no relationship to the neighborhood or even the yard. The brick facade, absence of porches or patios and gaping garages all say, "Keep away from my McCastle!" I'm surpised those places don't have moats.I think that it's been said previously here, but the real tragedy of the current tract neighborhoods (even greater than the lack of architecture) is the total disconnect from the world around. No man is an island but his house sure can be.
Got to hand it to you those two sites hit on just about every cliche when talking about the McM's. Notice how creatively they named the models. Pretty much interchangeable?
BTW, I did a McTeardown in Charlotte, NC. I studied the neighborhood and a generalized Southern style for ideas...and I talked to the people who lived in the immediate area. Great ideas! Good people.
Hate to do this but I must. There are a handful of "developments" around here that I decided really must have a name...no not the Glen or Woods. Something that goes to the appearance of this mass of drech. I've taken to calling them 'Biege-villes". Out of 50 or so structures only one or two are white or have any consistant architectural style. The rest? No brick or stone, but vinyl siding in biege, sand, clay or whatever other similar color. All the roofs are in 'weathered wood' brown.
I'm going to start a forum revolving around something I used to do when I sat on a local ARB, given the interest here. (Watch this space!)
ciao, ted
here's a million or so
Yep, and all of 'em are "Uuuuugly!!"
Thanks for the post!
What also gets me is that these homes are built depending on land values, have close to a million in price tag or above on them, the master bath is full of tile then the other baths will have a 180.00 one piece fiber glass tub in them from home depot. I have even seen it where the master shower is one piece fiberglass.Wally
Frankly, I'd just as soon have a good quality fiberglass or solid surface shower, vs tile. Easier to keep clean and harder to fug up.But it isn't just one thing. Often the trim fit and finish is poor, and other problems abound. Saw one in the same area as those others where the joints in the siding were all mucked up for some reason -- made the fiber-cement look like cheap vinyl. (Didn't get close enough to tell what was wrong, but the joints all appeared to have dark stains around them.)
What is wanted is not the will to believe, but the will to find out, which is the exact opposite. --Bertrand Russell
The problem is they use the cheapest tub/shower they can buy.
Does someone out there have a monopoly on these houseplans?? If you change out the F.C. siding for ugly brick and mismatched stone, you have exactly the house you find in the Huntsville area. There are a few subdivisions with some saving graces, but mainly they're populated with these cold, expressionless, proportion-less facades.
In many areas here you'll also find this type of house smacked onto a steep lot that requires an endless amount of steps from the drive, so your guests are required to be triathletes or go all the way around the back of the house to get in. The other option is the monster at the bottom of a driveway so steep that you cannot see anything but air when you start down the drive. Many are so steep you can barely walk down the slope to or from the house. We don't do many basements around here, but there are some walkouts. We have lots of minimal, raw crawl spaces and slabs.
I grew up around Chicago, and after the war many homes were built on slabs. My grandparents and parents considered these sub-standard dwellings, and I wonder what they would think about these huge, ugly monsters plunked flat on a slab!
Prices around here start in the upper 300's and run upwards to probably 700K or so. We do have some 1M and up around here, but they are generally Georgian run amok. I'm still amazed at how similar these are in all parts of the country!
Does someone out there have a monopoly on these houseplans
Sadly, no. I'm about half convinced that disgruntled former tract-builder drafters just give the 17-18 plans they have to the plan books to publish.
Not uncommon to find these 'flat' plans built with whatever slab on grade it takes--even when the slope could accomodate a walk-out basement. But basements are not offered by the tract builders. The extra 20, 30, 40 yards of concrete required just wind up in the overall cost of the floor plans that builder stamps out. Since they are not controling one cost, that cost gets taken out of where ever else can be found. Trim, floor finish, popcorn ceilings in lieu of paint and trim, whatever.
Everybody pays for the stupid foundations. Oh, and it does not matter which way the slope goes, the house goes on exactly the same spot on every lot. 2x6 at whatever the highest point is, then whatever it takes to hit level from that.
So, one side of the street, the houses' finish elevation might be lower than the curb's--on the other, there's 4, 5' of foundation exposed before the brick ledge.
My faves are when the slope is along the street, one 7.5' or 10' side yard might be 3' lower than the other--which is classic when the high side is the garage side, nothing like a 10 yard driveway . . . Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Yep, I have one of those sideways slopes, and the east side foundation has about 18" of exposure and the west side...well, the siding on the west side is over my head and I'm 5'4". Being sited on rolling former pastureland, options were limited to the owner who built this house. But sited just a bit to the south would have allowed for a full basement, which no one in Alabama seems to think an amenity, so it probably never occured to the owner.
Hey Capn,
I'm sticking on the coattails of this thread, but I'd appreciate your input on this one...
Check out my thread in Construction Methods "Soapstone installation"
Thx
markh- had to laugh at that one only because i swear thats exactly what i see at most of them.
forgot to include usually built in less than 4 weeks. i drove to grand rapids one day and saw equipment in a field. drove by a month later and 13 homes dotted the landscape. a year has passed and they have gone from 279,000 to 139,000 as of last week.
Is it required to use a cross-hipped roof in a McMansion design? For some reason that's all I see, but maybe it's just in this region.
I'm not saying it's not possible to make a decent looking house with this particular roof style, but you'd expect the McArchitects to mix it up a little.
Hey, maybe they outsourced the architecture to save money and they're all being designed by people who've never been in an American neighborhood - that would certainly explain a few things!
Bill, I think they're all being designed by home designers (not architects) who couldn't make it as hairdressers. And they're getting kickbacks from the roofing people.
And, no, those god-awful roofs are not just in your area. There's some kind of contest here I think to see how many gables you can put on a single house!
My favorite here is the moderate-priced single-level on a slab with a roof that's nearly twice as high as the elevation of the house itself. Looks like it was a 2-story that sunk under the weight of the roof!
outsourced the architecture to save money and they're all being designed by people who've never been in an American neighborhood -
Ah, but that's entirely it.
First, almost no tract builders ever use or hire an actual licensed architect ever. They will use every other alternative they can. Far too often, they have drafters only at whatever regional office knocks out plans locally, and the drafters are hired based on their willingness to work long hours for low pay.
Secondly, the people drawing these plans are living in these sorts of houses and neighborhoods--they are drawing exactly what they know.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Hmmm, so imagine some large builder hired some architectural firms to come up with a few hundred excellent home designs. I recently worked with a stellar architect who designed a unique, beautiful building in under a month from soup to nuts. So, perhaps 20 man years there, for $2M, but spread across thousands of homes not so much money. Now apply economies of scale of building dozens or more of each of these homes across the country - you'd think they could corner the market vs. McMansions, no? I can see not knowing better on materials, but isn't good design more univeral? Empirically, 'no' seems to be the answer and I'm just talkin' crazy.
you'd think they could corner the market vs. McMansions, no? I can see not knowing better on materials, but isn't good design more univeral? Empirically, 'no' seems to be the answer and I'm just talkin' crazy.
Ought to--but there's a lot of things that "ought to' but aren't, sad to say.
Does not help that the the tract builders seem wedded to the idea of these soul-less, anonymous, marshmellows as a "style" for worse (not better).
There's a very real problem in that vanilla-ization squashes the very real and needful differences in style climate requires, if nothing else. A southern-exposed, classic Cape is quite possibly the worst possible style a person could build in Texas. Not that it's not possible, just that it takes as much compromise as a flat roof in "lake effect snow" country.
And, those regional styles out to be more flexible than they are, too. Slab-on-gread makes some sense around Houston, not so much in my area. Starts to make some sense in the rock around Austin, but less so on the hills.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Ok so we have many of the don't for McM's, what are the correct do's for a house? I guess I'm in agreement with many of the posts. Most of the houses I work on are huge wasted spaces with no real character. Don't get me wrong some have very nice "things" but nothing awe inspiring. Like let's put in a huge kitchen with a 5' refer, slabs of granite stick some colums up here and get the sought after Faux painter to make it all look like marble.
I see some dislike for fiber cement siding, but what is your preferred alternative? In my region "stucco" is huge, which has some advantages but doesn't always go with the style of a given house.
Maybe a new thread should be started, "Examples of a house done right".
The problem is, people want to buy a house for dramatic effect, to somehow compensate for the lack of drama in their lives. A pleasant, comfortable home that looks comfortable in its environment isn't going to sell to this crowd. The house MUST stick out like a sore thumb and attract attention. But not offend, and hence it must be beige in all aspects.
What is wanted is not the will to believe, but the will to find out, which is the exact opposite. --Bertrand Russell
to somehow compensate for the lack of drama in their lives
Maybe we should all spend a little more time exploring the "life of the mind"?
Maybe a new thread should be started, "Examples of a house done right".
Great idea! Why dontcha? I'd love to, but I started this one..don't want to wear out my welcome.
A large tract home on which the s.f. of the structures footprint exceeds 33% of the lot size, i.e. the 3500-s.f. house on the 80 X 100 lot.
When I've been through a few homes that I would say fit the bill, I was left with the impression that "super size me" had hit home building. The spaces I'm thinking of have ceilings that are too high, fireplaces that are both too big and too fake, spaces that are too big: too big to be used comfortably, too big to be heated reasonably, too big to feel warm and homey to me.
I also associate the term with people who only live indoors. Indoors needs to be very big nowadays for some people since it now replaces the outdoors and the interactions with neighbors, gardens, the ground, etc. that for me make a house a home.
McMansion people also seem to keep pets in cages. Maybe McMansion is really a state of mind.
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
There is a McMansion cluster across from my kids school. It meets many of the criteria that I saw as I skimmed through the posts (two story foyer with overbearing chandelier in large window, 2-1/2 to 3 car garages) right down to the name painted in gold (now peeling) on the brick wall at the entrance. I have watched this particular one for the last 5 years with interest. The vinyl siding started out with just one course loose at an overlap. It caught my eye and looked like it initially was not "snapped" into the lower course at the one end. Over the years it has progressively gotten worse as the winds tore into it. Today it looks like this pic. I guess they get some credit for using tyvek under the vinyl. It recently lost another piece and been like this since school started after New Years.
A guy I know who lives in the same cluster invited us over for a party once a few years back. I asked him if he noticed the ledger board for his deck was pulling away from the house. I went back to help him check it out the next weekend and all we could find holding it to the house was deck screws, no bolts at all. We through bolted a bunch of carriage bolts that day.
These were selling for $375K - $500k (more than the average for our area) depending if you had the "winter time water view" or not. The winter time water view there means that when the leaves are off the trees and you stand in one corner room upstairs and squint real hard you can see the sun reflecting off the water through the trees. If its cloudy, you're out of luck.
One other thing I noticed as I drove through today, most of the front doors are all uncovered and slapped onto the front of the houses. On quite a few of them the brick mold / trim package on top of the door is now smiling. The middle is bowed downward while the ends are held up by the side pieces.