When can you get away without using PT?
I have been taking my little 4.5 year old to indoor climbing gyms when it is rainy and having a grand time.
Look daddy I am climbing!!!
But, the nearest gym that will let him in is 45 minutes away and has odd hours (7-10pm), it also ends up being about 14$ at the gym, so its a 20-25 dollar evening! I have space in my garage to build a low wall (8 feet high) and ordered up the holds.
The concept for a wall is very simple, build a 2×4 wall, sheath it with nice quality 3/4 oops I mean 23/32nd ply and bolt your holds to the t-nuts that you have pounded in to the other side. Not only will it be fun for us to climb, but it will be fun to build,
I would like to use all non-treated wood, and am pondering if I used some Grace or other peel-n-stick flashing to the bottom of my bottom plate if that would be ok for direct contact with concrete (that is in a garage)
Replies
You don't need treated or Grace in the garage. You could put some poly or tarpaper under the bottom if you want.
Well, unless you're gonna be using it years from now I wouldn't worry about it! Especially INSIDE an enclosed area.
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I am planning on using it for about 17 years at least.... (then the little guy is 21,,, ) my goal is to try and keep pt out of my life as much as possible, but not have to redo stuff either.
I wouldn't bet on an 8' wall being much of a challenge after he's 8 years old.
Joe H
Grace would work great, but it can be messy if smeared on a concrete floor and smells like, well, like ice and water. Thick poly or shower pan liner material would be my choice.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
You don't think that after six months or so the same old eight foot wall will get pretty old? I would guess in a year or so your son would get pretty good at climbing and would be looking for 20 or 30 foot walls and then you will be looking for belaying (?) safety equipment. How high is your roof in your garage?
The challenge for us is not going to be in the vertical ascent, more bouldering, moving laterally accoss the wall, and only chosing specific holds to make it across the the board.
There are cool hula hoop holds to bolt up to the wall for us to try and climb through too...
I am planning on being able to tilt the board as well so that it will be past vertical to make it a challenge just to stay on it as well. I do have a full body harness for him (petzl simba) and a beefy anchor in the roof. (tested with a 185lb plus load) I am not sure I want him too far off the deck at this point.
I am working all the basic belay commands too. Mainly this is going to be a way to burn off steam...
I used to spend 5 days a week at a climbing gym. It's great that your 4.5 yr old likes it, it's good exercise/coordination training.
I had a friend who made a home gym, just 8' tall by 8' wide. To make adjustable difficulty levels, he built the frame/mounted the plywood, but he kept it seperate from the wall. Then he bolted the bottom to the wall so it could pivot, and attached the top via chains. When he wanted to have a harder workout, he would extend the chains so that the wall was an overhang, when he wanted easier, he would shorten the chains, for less overhang. The wall could be vertical for storage.
It's a little more work, but it might keep your son interested longer.
By the way, put in a lot of T-nuts. And the climbing gym where I used to go had some sort of sanded paint on the walls- I would think that an epoxy floor paint with sand added might work, or maybe a thin coat of bondo with sand added spread on over the plywood. Just make sure that the area around the T-nuts is flat, otherwise the holds will crack when you tighten them down.
zak
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin
"so it goes"
I have a great idea for the pivot at the bottom, but I am struggling with the top adjust.... did your fried use regular anchor chain or something beefier.... and how did he anchor the chain off to the wall?
I think he just used a beefy welded chain. It's been many years since I saw it.
If it were me, I would find some shackles small enough to fit in the chain links, like a 1/2" or 5/8" shackle, and shackle the chain to eye bolts (through bolts, not lag). I would also make some 2x4 chunks that can sit behind the wall thing after you adjust the chain, so the wall doesn't bounce up when you move around on it.zak
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin
"so it goes"
If it's indoors and dry, you don't need to use PT wood on concrete floor. But, you should know whether or not the concrete has a plastic barrier under it to keep water from seeping up from below. If water seepage is a problem then some kind of bitumen membrane should solve the problem.
I am pretty certain there is no barrier under the slab. The folks who built the garage spared all expenses!!
There is more to it than simply indoors and dry.
What appears dry normally can changer with seasons and cahnge again when you build to it. Crete stays cooler, so moisture in the air is more likely to condense theree and be wicked into this bottom plate, even if there is moisture stop under the slab to keep it from wicking underslab moistureCodes require that any wood in contac6t with crete shall be PT. PeriodThe tricky clause is "in contact" It is really easy to isolate from contact. The bottom plate can hacve a strip of vycor stuck to the bottom of it then flip it and lay it in place. Easy and done with no mess to clean off the floor later. Even a strip of 30# felt could do for this wall.
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"Codes require that any wood in contac6t with crete shall be PT. Period"I have 2003 Codes but ,1997 and earlier don't treat wood in contact with slab foundations the same as it does for footings and under house crawl spaces, they have an exception to PT requirement in areas not exposed to water splash, such as would be found indoors in a covered garage. Section 23406.8 (1997 UBC) states that untreated wood of any species may be used if not exposed to water. A second part of the exception states that a vapor barrier must be in place below the slab to avoid wicking action from below. If those two requirements are met, PT is not required. Codes 2003 make a distinction in requirements for PT wood on exterior vs. interior foundation walls. If you have reference to the interior application situation under consideration in the 2003 IRC for One and Two Family Dwellings, please list it as I would be interested to know.
OK, now explain that to the inspectors...You have the If clause ( who can tell that it will never be wet) and the barrier clause ( where not all slabs get inspections before pour and those that do, the inspector may not be looking for that to cross ref later when he is looking for PT) so on a practical basis, they still require it
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It's not necessary to explain it to the inspectors, just you. You're the one who quoted the code so I thought I would clarify it for you so that you won't quote that code section incorrectly in the future. Not attempting to argue here, just state what the code says. If you go back to my original post, I said that simply putting something between the wood and concrete slab would solve his problem. He was installing a climbing wall in his garage and wanted to know how to get around PT use and the code. A very specific question for a specific situation. If he puts up the wall, it's in an existing garage and will likely never get inspected so the code information was strictly for his personal use regarding what the code covers in his application. Like you said, if he's in doubt about the under slab barrier, just installing a piece of felt paper below the sill would suffice inside his garage.
The next time you see the inspector, pull out your code book and ask him/her about the code section I quoted and have them explain where it does apply, if you believe it doesn't apply to interior walls bearing on concrete slabs.
we are in agreement about this case here. we both gave the same advice to solve the problem. I'm just pointing out that not all inspoectors don't see everything nor interpret the code the same way you do. The way I quote the code is the way they have quoted it to me. Am I going to waste my life arguing with inspectors? Only where it counts. This ain't it.
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I am coming into this discussion late in the game and seems like you have gotten lots of advice on the construction. However, I am a climber and have been on lots of climbing walls. Here is a link to some home walls that may give you some ideas and inspiration. My advice is make it interesting and challenging or your son will be bored with it in no time. The other key in motivaiton. This comes from fellow climbers. Either you and/or his friends. Climbing walls are no fun solo all the time. Good luck and have fun with the project!
http://www.norope.com/gallery.php?path=HOME_WALL
Jay
He is going to motivate me, and I am going to motivate him. I am looking for a good way to stay limber and to work out differently while it is too cold to paddle, and my little guy is getting reeealllly strong and he will be no fun if he cant blow off some steam. there are some really neat kids holds like fish
http://nicrosstore.biz.sco.com/tab0/store/category/5q4i/Kidz_Holdz_153.html
So, imagine the following
" Arf.. (my son's name is arthur) go from the yellow fish to the green frog and only use holds that are pink inbetween"
then he gets to pick my route...
also it will be way fun to build it too.
Yes!
You've got it 100%. Have fun with the construction and use of the project. I think you are going to have a blast!
Jay
It's not construction, it's just a large piece of furniture. Do inspectors require treated lumber on the legs of garage workbenches?
Seven blunders of the world that lead to violence: wealth without work, pleasure without conscience, knowledge without character, commerce without morality, science without humanity, worship without sacrifice, politics without principle. --Mahatma Gandhi
My point in refering to code was not that I belive some inspectator will make mincemeat of the project, but to point out that there are reasons for requiring that wood incontact with crete be PT. I think I mentioned what those reasons are...I'll have to go back to see.
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Yep, I did...http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=80404.16
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Should be no reason at all to use PT except where there is direct contact with the cement. Even then unless you have some severe moisture issues probably not necessary. It is not part of structure. You could do as they did in the old days, oil treat a bottom plate for it or go ahead and use a pt bottom plate that would be covered by the wall anyway.
There are many ways around this if you want to use flashing, builder's paper, waterproofing membrane that you can get in rolls for windows/doors (or go bum some scraps from someone's project). You could use one of the silicate boards or borate if that makes you feel more comfortable. I have used scraps of vinyl siding for things like this (actually shevles in basement).
it would take couple year for regular wood to rot inside on dry payment, even then you would be eyeballing it, just replace when it rots. which I would say be at least twenty years. just build and have fun, if it rot, it rots
I basically agree but I would rather spend a few minutes the first time around and not have to even consider replacing it later. It isn't like he is doing a 100' perimeter or anything.
A fun thing we used to do as kids was use random length 2"x4" cut offs from a building site and nail up some ladders on the area trees. That made for a challenge, & the height of those wood ladder steps on the trees, got higher and higher over the years. At a certain elevation you would actually sway with the tree on a windy day.
I framed up a basement not long ago without the PT bottom plate. the inspector thought he was gonna bang me for it until I showed him the 30# stapled to all the bottom plates
anyway, I built my kids the McSwingset you see in eveyones yard these days without PT. I figure its only got to last a few years, then I can burn it
"I figure its only got to last a few years, then I can burn it"That makes a lot of sense, actually. Nothing worse than haveing PT wood laying around that you have to haul to the dump.
When I build shelving units for my garage I tack a piece of scrap asphalt roofing shingle to the bottom of the legs. I my garage I always seem to have water from the cars in the winter or water if I hose out my garage. Using the asphalt holds the wood legs up just enough to keep the water from contacting the wood.
Just a thought.
If the garage is dry, just put any sort of membrane down -- Grace, sill seal, plastic, etc. Even a coat of oil paint would do the job.