I went to my township planning and building office for a pemit for a shed for my yard, They say I need a zoning application that is a 56 dollar fee, A slab affidavit for the slab 35 dollars and on top of it a construction permit 90 dollars. The shed is only 10 x 12 and 12 ft high. When will they stop this nonsense? Ive been in the business 22 years now and I wonder what it will be like 20 years from now? Does this anger anyone else or is it just me.
Just venting, LMC
Replies
YES!!!! I am with you brotha! Where does all of this money go? To the inspector that I have to remind of proper code? I am with you.
Check and see if you can omit the permanent foundation -- ie, put it on skids -- and duck all the permitting requirements. That's what can be done here.
I built a garden tool shed 10x12 on treated 6x6. Anything 120sf or more or with a concrete foundation required a permit.
"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
When do the permits stop?
When you, and the rest of us stop acknowledging the idiots who tell us we need permission (from morons) to build something on our own property.
Build it anyway you want and ignore them.
When the majority of us do this, the assinine permits will necessarily stop.
I hear you pinko, Problem is that I got into a little scuffle with a BI in my town that I live in. I'am not a mean guy!! It was a bad day and he had made some derogatory remarks at one of my men that is deaf and he was. I got off the ladder and shoved him to the ground ( I am not bragging about this in any way). But he had it coming to him. Well the police showed up and all hell broke loose. Had to go to court. Told the mediator lady I would do it again if the circumstances were the same and that I would like to do it right now!!! I had to defend my guy, He is one the kindest people I know He does charity work all the time. He's not marrried no kids. Just a good egg. So they had a restraining order set on me. Granted I havn't been in a fight since the 3rd grade. Really!! Long story short, This guy got $hit canned. But now everybody knows me as the guy who pushed that a$$. Actually I ran into the guy at chucky cheeses (he seamed like a good family man) so I stopped the anger towards him.
Two cents, Lou
Told the mediator lady I would do it again if the circumstances were the same and that I would like to do it right now!!! I had to defend my guy...
well, hat's off to ya - not sure of your strategy, but I find no fault in your motive/heart -
glad you were able to let you of your anger afterwards - -
from wabash county, where a few will admit we really ought to have a BI....
"there's enough for everyone"
Stategy goes out the window when you are soo pi$$ed!!
Lmc
pinko,
do that here and you wind up in jail untill you agree to remove it.
I had to get a permit to build a garage on my own property 4yrs ago and it cost $585 here. Recently, the little tin star wearing code inspector noted that the small shed at the back of my property was in need of a coat of paint and a new door. He sent me a letter saying that it would have to be repaired within 30 days or the job of demolition would be put up for bids and I would be charged for job of tearing down my shed. If I refused to pay, a lien would be placed on my property until the demolition is paid for. I could get an extension of 120 days if I bought a "remodel permit" or "demolition permit." Of course I found it unbelievable that the city could tear down my shed because it needed paint but found that they have been doing it since 2003. In fact, they tore down several buildings on one owners property and accidentally tore down one that was not supposed to be demolished. Now there is a lawsuit pending due to the mistake.
I don't live in a plush neighborhood. I live on a couple of acres by myself with no close neighbors. City inspectors have little to do around here during the winter and look around to justify their positions. This could be costly for someone in poor health who can't do the work themselves or afford to pay to have it done.
Sorry to hijack the thread, the permit cost rant reminded me of how the Union of Soviet Socialists of Northern Oklahoma operate. I gotta get down to the Kremlin and get one of those remodel permits next week so that I can paint.
I remember a story - Colorado I think - about a guy that armor plated his huge dozer and drove into town for revenge, selectively destroying buildings.
Perhaps it was the inane laws of our land that drove him over the edge.
This shed deal is ridiculous. Paint it, but plant some fast-growing trees too. Can you do that without a permit?
Treat every person you meet like you will know them the rest of your life - you just might!
I remember a story - Colorado I think - about a guy that armor plated his huge dozer and drove into town for revenge, selectively destroying buildings.
Perhaps it was the inane laws of our land that drove him over the edge.
I never heard of that one. I'll have to see if I can find the story somewhere on the net to see how things turned out. [edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_Heemeyer]
Frankly, I'm surprised that more people don't literally go berzerk like that. Especially with the rampant eminent domain abuses; I think it's only a matter of time before someone decides to take up arms to prevent their house from being taken from them. Maybe it's happened already, and I just haven't heard about it.
It's a sad state of affairs right now with respect to property rights. I hope that the Kelo case gets overturned before too much longer.
Edited 4/14/2007 5:42 am ET by Ragnar17
I think it's only a matter of time before someone decides to take up arms to prevent their house from being taken from them.
I grew up in a little town in the middle of nowhere Iowa, about 500 people at their peak.
About 20 years ago the city was putting in a sewer system. One guy didnt want it! He didnt believe in indoor plumbing but thats a whole nother topic. <G>
He stood his ground inside the house with a shotgun, wasnt going to allow anyone in to do the hookup! Eventually he lost that battle but he has since bought a piece of land out in the country and moved his house there - and guess what, still no indoor plumbing!
I'm sure there are countless other stories.
Doug
The people that "go postal" will do it eventually, regardless. They're always picking fights with the city or their neighbors or whoever and have a very narrow/rigid/distorted view of "right and wrong". The specific matter that finally sets them off is not really all that relevant.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
The people that "go postal" will do it eventually, regardless. They're always picking fights with the city or their neighbors or whoever and have a very narrow/rigid/distorted view of "right and wrong". The specific matter that finally sets them off is not really all that relevant.
Dan,
I'd probably agree with you that many people who "go postal" have a specific personality type.
However, it's far too often that I hear of the government picking fights with individuals, not the other way around.
Take for example, all the eminent domain abuses over the last decade. The homeowners aren't picking a fight with anybody. All of a sudden, however, they find themselves being forced off their land because some ethically-challenged individual has enlisted the help of some like-minded folks on the city council.
Eminent domain has been a frequent source of conflict since the country was founded. Nothing new there, and, as in the past, there are a lot of different factors involved. If anything, the rules have become fairer to the property owners over the past few decades.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
>>If anything, the rules have become fairer to the property owners over the past few decades.Huh? How's that? Jeez, you act like you're FOR the state's claim that the government owns all the property within their borders and the rest of us are just 'visitors'. After all, that is what they honestly believe. I mean, I know we here in the great USA like to believe we own our property--that we have some inherent 'property rights'...but we really don't.. Is that a good thing?
I'm just stating the facts, as I understand them.Go back and look at some of the Urban Renewal stuff in the early 60s, eg. Or what the railroads could get away with in the 1800s.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
Have you reviewed the Kelo case?
Not in detail, but what I've read suggests that it's nothing special/out of the ordinary. The Supreme Court decision, of course, had nothing to do with the "merits" of the case but only dealt with the legality of eminent domain for development purposes and the right of states to regulate it. The court rightly held that this is something that has traditionally been regulated by the states and is not a place for the federal government to meddle.It's been turned into a cause celebre by some political factions who would have you believe that it represents some "new" activity on the part of the government, but this is not the case.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
Dan,
You brought up an interesting point in a previous post about how bad the Urban Renewal stuff was in the early 60s, and the what the railroads got away with in the 1800s. I'll have to look into both of those topics in more detail.
You wrote that the Kelo case has "been turned into a cause celebre by some political factions who would have you believe that it represents some "new" activity on the part of the government."
I might be wrong, but the "new" activity on the part of the government seems to be in their interpretation of the term "public use" as mentioned in the Fifth Amendment: "...nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."
Historically, "public use" seems to have been things like schools, roads, bridges and the like.
Now, local governments are expanding the definition of the term to be somewhat synonymous with public benefit. They argue that, for example, if the transfer of property will result in increased property taxes to the local government, then the public will benefit.
From a 60 Minutes article written in 2004:
"Cities across the country have been using eminent domain to force people off their land, so private developers can build more expensive homes and offices that will pay more in property taxes than the buildings they're replacing. " [emphasis added] http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/09/26/60minutes/main575343.shtml
The article mentions a retired couple living in Lakewood, Ohio. The city is attempting to condemn the entire neighborhood in which this couple lives in order to replace it with luxury condos and a shopping mall. The mayor says she sought out a developer for the project because Lakewood's aging tax base has been shrinking and the city simply needs more money.
In order to justify the taking of the property, the city labeled the neighborhood as "blighted". Their criteria? The typical home in the old neighborhood doesn't have "three bedrooms, two bathrooms, an attached two-car garage, and central air."
There's more, of course. If you have the chance, please read the referenced article.
Edited 4/15/2007 2:45 am ET by Ragnar17
It's always (since the railroads, at least) been common to use eminent domain to take property for private development, and I can assure you that in many cases this was not "for the public good" but to line developers' (and politicians') pockets.What's changed (for the better) is that it's become more necessary to explicitly document the "public good" in order to pursue eminent domain. But when you become more explicit like this you tend to split hairs finer and finer, and, understanding that anything even hinting of a racial or social justification (when defining "blight", eg) must be studiously avoided, the reasoning necessarily becomes more and more convoluted.Another change for the better that's occurred in most states is that "just compensation" must indeed be "just" (in most cases). Used to be that the government could rather arbitrarily set the compensation, but now "due process" must be followed in the valuation of the property. (There are a few odd areas such as trees, where sometimes the compensation is fixed at something like $75 per tree, and of course there are the long-standing issues of loss of access and loss of appearance that have no good answer.)
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
It's always (since the railroads, at least) been common to use eminent domain to take property for private development, and I can assure you that in many cases this was not "for the public good" but to line developers' (and politicians') pockets.
DanH,
Thanks for your thoughts on this. I may have been wrong in thinking that emininent domain abuse was a "new" thing.
Whether new or old, I assume we agree it is wrong.
Regards,
Ragnar
Certainly "abuse" is wrong. But it's also hard to define -- very subjective. There's no strong evidence in the Kelo case that condemnations were performed to benefit any individual or private organization. What's at question is the vagueness of the "public good" in that case, and how rigorous the test of public good should be to merit use of eminent domain.The court rightly held that this determination is too situational to be a constitutional standard -- the decision is better left to states and state courts.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
"It's been turned into a cause celebre by some political factions who would have you believe that it represents some "new" activity on the part of the government, but this is not the case.'All of then that I have heard discussing it was not saying that it was new, but rather continuitng and increasing..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
I doubt that it's increasing that much, especially compared to certain earlier periods such as the early 60s. "Continuing", yes. But the alarmists tried to make it out as something new (and even tried to characterize the Supreme Court's decision as "activist").
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
The Kelo case is exactly what one expects from a conservative supreme court. It upheld STATES rights. It has very little to do with property rights.
Dan,You accidentally left the words "Some of..." off of the beginning of your post.
A priest once said, "When I feed the poor, they call me a saint -- when I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a Communist" ~IanDG '03
Did not.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
Did too.
A priest once said, "When I feed the poor, they call me a saint -- when I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a Communist" ~IanDG '03
Did not.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
You might want to check with your local taxing authority on precisely what they will classify as a taxable building. Here many people had the idea that if they build an "elevated" shed (one one runners, piers, or just off the ground) it isn't a "permanent" building and not taxable. This is not so here. Short of it being on an axle with wheels and plates (tags for those outside of NY) it is a building and will be taxed if above the a certain sq. footage depending on construction material. Wood 50 sq. ft.; vinyl, aluminum 144 sq. ft. (go figure that idiocy).
> Wood 50 sq. ft.; vinyl, aluminum 144 sq. ft. (go figure that idiocy). Well, they did say "permanent".
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
> Wood 50 sq. ft.; vinyl, aluminum 144 sq. ft. (go figure that idiocy).Well, they did say "permanent".What I meant is that they encourage that Rubbermaid junk and some of those horrendous aluminum buildings that you can see blowing around in the back yards on a day like today, with a nor'easter roaring outside, rather than a nice, attractive well constructed wood building.
While I prefer to build my own, now you don't even have to build you own wood shed, they deliver a fully assembled, really attractive wood sheds right to the your lot. Some of these things are a hell of a lot more attractive than the ghastly remodeled homes that they now grace.
It just it takes a larger metal/plastic building to truly qualify as "permanent", in part BECAUSE of their propensity to blow around.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
Depends on what the definition of postal is.
be I wonder if postals were having fun?
Parolee # 53804
Maybe it depends on ones definition of "accidentally". I'm generally fairly deliberate with the wording of my posts.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
BTW - I think the appropriate course of action is to get the law changed, not to ignore it.
Our rural county has been through a building boom - the permits department went "pro" on us, and a multitude of hastily passed ordinances have created a lot of frustrating situations. It seems no one is thinking, they just follow the book.
Time to alter the book...
Treat every person you meet like you will know them the rest of your life - you just might!
That was in Granby, Colorado
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Nice story, Noidea...is this the kind of society you guys want to live under?
No hijacking here!!! Glad you can join. Have we heard from any BI's yet here. They will justify anything if they show up!
LMC
Was that badge in the shape of four Ls joined at right angles at teh top of the long leg of teh L? Just a thought.
When you, and the rest of us stop acknowledging the idiots who tell us we need permission (from morons) to build something on our own property.
Build it anyway you want and ignore them.
You wont mind if I run pigs and feed um out in my back yard next you ya would ya ?
I can run a few camper trailers back there to to house illegals. You dont care do ya ?
Tim
>>You wont mind if I run pigs and feed um out in my back yard next you ya would ya ?>>I can run a few camper trailers back there to to house illegals. You dont care do ya ? No Tim, wouldn't mind at all.. I'd just build a 16 foot privacy fence and paint (your side) hot pink. Maybe I'd even light it up w/ floods so you can enjoy the scenery at night too..Actually, I think most of us would live better by the principle of 'doing unto (neighbors) as you'd have them do unto you'..given half the chance, ya know?
Seems interresting people like you say ignore the law , call them when things get tough.
I lived it every day . Made me want to puke .
Sure yall are tough sitting behind your computer screen until shid moves next door you . Then who do ya call ? The inspector you chose to ignore . Whats the matter , I thought yall were tough? Uh huh , I didnt think so.
Go ahead and act like ya dont give a shid and the rest of ya to.
Tim
Oh, don't worry Mooney, I won't "call the law when things get tough", I can assure you.. But you'll just have to take my word for that..I'm a pretty independent-thinking kind of guy, ya know. And, for the record, I have had 'shid' move in next to me in times past. And I've dealt with it just fine withOUT ever using the local 'inspector'. Unlike, I suspect, most of the people you know, I do try and practice what I preach.
Go ahead and act like ya dont give a shid and the rest of ya to.
And that is why Tim is a dangerous man as a BI.
be but I still like the guy
Parolee # 53804
That house I bought in the new addition Im working on now ;
Up the street theres a house that has the garage door standing open all the time with a bunch of junk in it .
I showed up with my family to look at the house and we had made it to the back when I saw blue lights reflecting off the siding of the next house . I then realized we were busted as the lights stopped in front of the house . It had police tape across the front of it .
We walked around front and the law dog had his hand on his gun in the holster. He saw it was us and relaxed. We vsited with him till dark and he told me about the house up the street. He said if I was still inspector that would have already been done taken care of as there were four families living there and told me the garage was holding one family. I noticed there was a partician made and there was only about 6 ft of garage left which held the junk. He also told me about the house down on the corner.
He told me several stories about the house full but one I have to share , oh two! They all work at the chicken plant down the street which is about 1/4 mile. Part of them walk to and from work and others pile in a car . Sometimes they carry live chickens home that gets lose off the trucks of live hauls. They drive the chickens in a corner with several spread out and dive at them. They built a fence out of chicken and dog wire around the entire back yard. Every night they do the same deal again and catch two chickens and chop their heads off and let them flop and bleed out . They then skin them and bury the feathers and guts. Ive watched the whole process since I was told about it working late on my house . Seems the whole hood is upset.
I was working alone one evening when an elderly gentleman stopped to get nosey about what I intended to do with my house . I said IM trying to sell it to that family up the street . Well, a couple of families anyway. I was kidding but he went off about it . He also told me he was the one who called the law on me and I kindly thanked him for his concern. He said since my house burned they has a hood watch and would report everything . He also warned me about the house on the corner of the hood as we turn in to it . He said theres about 12 cars parked there at night . Theres no telling how many people are living there. I said youre kidding right ? He told me they come and go all hours of 24 hrs. Now he said they have some white girls staying there too. One of those is pregant . I said damn. We visited some more and he walked on into the night to make his rounds around the hood . I was grinning walking back to the house because the house on the corner is one of my rentals . Theres another story behind that as well.
Tim
Edited 4/14/2007 8:45 pm by Mooney
Edited 4/14/2007 8:46 pm by Mooney
Mr Tim, Ive been at this for 22 years. I have tax returns for my business since I was 18 years old. I worked out of the back of a b210 hatchback with a trailer. I allways try to do things the right way. In my years I have wondered why these guys have such a chip on there shoulders. Whats the deal? Did they want to be town cops and where just not smart enough? Did they not like carrying a scanner at the local pizza shop? Are they the youngest child of all boys? Are they just miserable people who drink scotch the night before they have to work? Do they love failing me 4 times for not having horizontal fire stoping in a finished basement? ( I won't do it! I like to have air flowing). Do these guys forget what its like to be in the field? If they weren't in the field then they should not be!!!! Do these guys start out nice and we make then a$$holes? I met one building inspector that was a good guy and man was he tough!!! He had this nack for telling you things were wrong but in a nice way. Very smart guy (had all trades) I call him if I have any questions and he's happy to answer. You cant call the town your working in because they tell you to ask the architect (and we all know they play dumb when we call them). Bottom line> sorry to generalize, but 90% of these guys are jerks.
-lmc
Edited 4/19/2007 5:05 am ET by loucarabasi
< can run a few camper trailers back there to to house illegals. You dont care do ya ?>When I started this little compound of mine three years ago...home/studio/tool shed/potting shed/soon to be garage.......no permits/fees/or a chance of fines.I am in hog heaven after years of dealing with the ever increasing BS from a system gone out of control.....BUTI have also placed myself in the position of my one neighbor doing anything he wants.......and his place is for sale.....and I'm worried. I am now building a fence.....BUT a fence won't stop muchIf only there was common sense left in this country.....and the building departments had some of it......it would be nice.....everybody would benefit.
jjWalters,
you have mail about the neighbors place.
Sorry...I tried to send you an e-mail, but I have sending problems (just switched to DSL)Here's a picture of the property......it's about 3 acres and the realtor bought it for 19.000 ...it's more of a hunting cabin than anything else.....there is a small pond behind the cabin and about 8oo or so acres of woods surrounding it......this street is narrow chip and seal and there are about five other houses in the mile or so length of the valley.......my place is the closest (I own the land directly right at the tree line)........the trailer is goneEdited 4/14/2007 7:26 pm ET by jjwalters
Edited 4/14/2007 7:28 pm ET by jjwalters
jj,
Thank you . Very nice looking, any idea what the realtors are asking? Whats water like there( aside from the pond)?If memory serves many parts of that area have iron water and stuff that is barely fit to drink (tatse wise) for well water. I have a lot of questions so will wait and see if you succeed with the emails. Place reminds me of the first place I owned here in oregon. About same length road, same number of house. if neighbors are good it makes a nice place to be.
Edited 4/14/2007 7:58 pm by dovetail97128
what the realtors are asking?....I'll check Whats water like there( aside from the pond)?.....My water is very good spring coming out of the hillworking on the e-mail today will contact you asap
Parolee # 53804
?????????
Just shrank jj's monster pic down from his earlier post.
Parolee # 53804
When do the permits stop?
When you, and the rest of us stop acknowledging the idiots who tell us we need permission (from morons) to build something on our own property.
You sound like a kindred spirit, Pinko! My only problem is with your screen name -- it makes you sound like a commie! ;)
In the mean time some of us have to be willing to go to jail. oh . . . no... that would be too easy. They put leans on your property, make it impossible for you to sell, or in the end just confiscate your property. What . . . make a fuss? Well, then you are a danger to society and teh cops, show up and arrest you. A bigger fuss? Well, then they just shot you. Free nation, just like George and Thomas dreamed of.
Ask an Indian who owns the property.
Know why the USA went to the moon?
Heard the Indians had some property up there and wanted to get it.
pinko, your first mistake was think you actually own your property. Silly boy.
Hey, man, I'm painfully aware of the sanctions the state places on people who don't want to go with the flow...fines, then liens, then stiffer fines, then foreclosure, and, if you ultimately refuse to leave your property (choose liberty), they give you death...>>pinko, your first mistake was think you actually own your property.No.. I'm under no delusion that I own my property (which I've paid for free and clear, mind you). The government claims full ownership rights of all of our persons and property these days, which is the unfortunate truth I was attempting to point out.
Hi Lou,
The words "Permit" and "Slab" translate into higher property taxes. Luckily, I'm in the county and away from city regs....so far. Once you have a slab and a shed on top of it, it becomes a "taxable improvement" and higher taxes. If the shed is on runners and not a slab, it not taxable.
In a nearby city limits, you can build a shed on your property, but if it's not wired for electricity you don't have to get a Permit...
If the permits that are turned into the Tax Office don't get your property's taxes increased, then there is another rumor floating about that will. Apparently, the rumor is that the both city and county "Meter Readers" watch for new construction on their monthly routes. If they turn in addresses with such, they are paid a bonus when confirmed.
Permits are a good thing for protection of shoddy & dangerous construction and code problems. They are a pain to honest citizens....
Bill
Just build it and put it out back. No need for permits and no one will ever know or check. Building officials are overworked and focused on roofing, new construction etc. No one is gonna bug you about it. If they do, tell em it was there when you bought the house.
Oh yeah, you know that's gonna work. SHHHH....it's a big secret.
I don't mind the permits and codes, It's the cost!!! 56 Dollar zoning application, 35 dollar slab affidavit, 90 dollar construction permit...For what?? So they can maybe drive by and look from the road, if they do that..181.00 for a shed is cheap. They wanted over three hundred from me.. Once I paid He never was seen and never returned a phone call!!
I'm done ranting!
Any chance you can fake you're a senoir citizen, or related to the teamster thugs?
>>56 Dollar zoning application, 35 dollar slab affidavit, 90 dollar construction permit...For what??I'm in the middle of the permit process for an addition. It cost me nearly double what you paid, for zoning review, plan review, and health/septic review. This is my very first construction project, but I'm going to play devil's advocate here. I think I've gotten something of value from the county. I've been on the phone with them several times, and down to meet with them a couple of times, about this or that issue involving everything from footing depth and pier dimensions to the snow loads on the roof. They have given me patient, clear advice that I could take back to my design people, who are working out of North Carolina (I'm in Maryland). So I felt like there was someone in my court when I asked the architect to change something for engineering reasons.In recent years, my county raised the roof load standards after many buildings collapsed during an ice storm. I've had inspectors out here showing me problems with my septic system. Zoning oversight has helped keep the surrounding countryside from turning into a hodge-podge of high-density industrial turkey farms and townhouses. In exchange, my permit fees work out to about one-third of one percent of the total value of this project. Maybe even this is too much for honest builders who really know what they are doing? At least the fees do slide up and down based on square footage.
Tom, If i received I patient,helping, kind, caring person down at the township office I would pass out and die. I ask"How are you today'' I get a stiff response " what can I do for you". No hi back!!! They are such total a$$holes. I dont mind authority when it come with mutual respect.
_lmc
I hear ya'.
Though I really can say that MOST of the Permitting people I've dealt with so far have ranged from pretty good to positively helpful. Not that my little project is all that challenging.
I think the building trades inherently bring out a lot of crabbiness in everybody.
I mean, people are running around trying to meet schedules and budgets, dealing with weather and surprises on the site, injuries, etc., in a business that involves what is really near and dear to the customer: a huge chunk of their money, and their home. I would HATE to have to deal with all the abuse the average county clerk must deal with all day. But my hat is certainly off to everybody here who is in this business for a living.
>>> I ask"How are you today'' I get a stiff response " what can I do for you". No hi back!!!
I thought I was the only one who felt this way. The BI in my town doesn't even come close in terms of manners.
It's been awhile since I've had to interact with our county's BI office, but I always found them courteous and, if not exactly "eager" to help, at least cooperative.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
There should be a minimum sguare footage for permiting purposes. Here it is 100 sq. ft., another county it is 120. Those numbers let HOs buy those small sheds from the home centers and not go through the hassle of permiting. They don't add anything to the tax value of the property, and seldom last more than ten years, evn if set on a slab.
Dave
When I built this 6 x 8 shed back in the early '90s, I went ahead and got a permit. Figured it was as permanent as anything, and would show up on the survey if I sold the house.
Actually, I wasn't going to bother with the permint, but my neighbor was cited for building a shed without one. The permit was only $15 or something like that.
Allen
View Image
That is one beautiful shed!
Thanks, DPR9. I posted that photo recently in the Tavern, so my apologies for the repetition. The point is, however, that if I had to pay the fees that the Lou faced with his shed, it probably wouldn't have been built.
Generally, zoning rules and construction codes are a good thing. But for tiny, non-inhabited structures, sometimes it seems the focus is more on revenue producing than on safety and aesthetics.
Allen
McShed!
Wow!
That shed is nicer than my house!
Dang that's a lot of work just to park your mower! Really nice though.
jt8
"We ourselves feel that what we are doing is just a drop in the ocean. But the ocean would be less because of that missing drop."-- Mother Teresa
I hope Rez and Junkhound see that pic.
It'll give both of them something to aspire to.
<G>
seen it.
Doesn't deserve the lowly rank of shed.
Even beyond the definition of outbuilding.
Looks more akin to...to...to...
be I need a word here
See how he went and snapped the pic before he finished the roof? That means he was excited with the project and enjoyed it.
Parolee # 53804
Edited 4/13/2007 2:31 pm ET by rez
One room schoolhouse in a township without a lot of kids.
jt8
"We ourselves feel that what we are doing is just a drop in the ocean. But the ocean would be less because of that missing drop."-- Mother Teresa
how 'bout edifice
or maybe it's his own personal mausoleum
or it's just plain & simple overkill (not that there's anything wrong with that)
<G>
Shep, my shed was based on the 19th century stone smokehouses that are so prevalent in this area.
A friend and I hosted a couple classes in which the students were taught cobblestone construction techniques, lime mortar history and applications, and stone dressing. That "shed" was the result of those classes -- well, the first couple feet of walls, anyway. Had to finish it on my own time ...
I was told that any structure with a foundation, regardless of size, required a permit. Money was tight, and I doubt I would have been willing to pay a couple hundred in fees. Fortunately, the cost was more reasonable, and now there's a beautiful little "smokehouse" on that property (about 80 miles from where I am now).
From where I'm sitting I can see my neighbor's old smokehouse out my dining room window. Wonder what permits or fees were required for that one. I'll go grab the camera:
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Allen
by the looks of the person in the photo you were only 8 when you built it?
My son at age 5. He's 19 now. Took him to the airport this morning so he could fly to Chicago to meet his girlfriend's family. The years ... how swiftly they pass.
Allen
I am about 14 years behind you then, my son is 5.
In 1909 (no I'm not THAT old to have read it originally) the New York Times editorialized about the income tax: "When men get in the habit of helping themselves to the property of others, they cannot be easily cured of it"....
Get the point???? ! ! !
Dick from Omaha
Go to your public library and check out the code book that your local city/jurisdiction uses. Unless they've changed, any structure used exclusively for storage and w/o electrical doesn't require a permit if the floor square footage is less 120 sq feet. If your local code is different then just adjust your square footage to comply and "Get Her Done!"
In the first part of the code book, first chapter listed as "Administration" there should be a paragraph about "Work Exempt from Permit", check that list and your storage shed should fit right in.
What If I want to build a tree house. Do I need a permit in NJ?
Dunno about a permit, but in many areas it must be to code.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
Do I need a permit in NJ?
No, just a tree.
Doug
Thanks, I got plenty of huge trees around my house. As a matter of fact I need to cut some of them, but they're very expensive.
Yes, You need a permit for a treehouse.
A$$holes have to justify there existance!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lou
Local governments have gotten too comfortable behind their desks. As Gibran said: "Comfort came in to be the guest and stayed to be the master." Why not consider it a temporary structure not needing any permits and just build it. Square footage rules may apply.
HELP! Save treehouse
NEED ADVICE - Built a 26' tall treehouse. City is now trying to use language symantecs to call it an accessory "structure" and therefor it is too tall because its over 15' high. Height is the ONLY issue. (not size or setbacks) (no electric/Plumbing) NOT UGLY either but that's anyones opinion. I think a huge white stucco flat roof house nextdoor is ugly and so does everyone else but I don't complain to city about it. It looks like an industrial building in an area of shingled gable roof NW style houses.
They have an "exempt" from permit code section which includes "Tree-Supported Play Structures". I think if you stopped 10 people on the street and asked "what is that up there?" they would NOT answer "its an accessory structure or building".
I could NOT have obtained a permit to build it so why would I have asked?
Do you think its just fine for them to call it an accessory structure/building? A city councilman looked at it and said he thought they were wrong but I don't know if he can prevail if the rest disagree.
Opinions/Advice Please!? THANKS!
storm
It's time to post a picture here of the neighborhood and the offending structure.
With just your text, I would say no-it's a tree house and should not be treated as a shed.
what do you keep in it, your riding lawnmower?
Is it at least nominally "tree supported"?
Certainly it would fall over w/o the Tree
City is wasting council time discussing if accessory structure or not. Same arguemnts would have to decide that my Zipline is an "addition" since it is attached to house.
when do the permits stop???? When the insurance companies stop making it impossible for villages to get reasonable insurance without all the paperwork. Or when our little villages stop being afraid of being sued. Or when residents of villages stop suing villages. Take your pick. I stopped filing for work I do I my own home. When I'm ready to sell my house I'll bring it up to village code, legalize it and get a new C of O. BTW I was the Chairman of our local Architectural Review Board, so I know all about village BS.
JM