When to nail down the wall intersections
Well now that I understand how to plumb walls after they have been raised my next question is when should one nail down the top plate wall intersections. Basically in what order do the laps in the top plates get nailed together?
As soon as the wall goes up do you nail down all the intersections before you plumb?
Lets say you built a house that was 40’x40′ and you raise all exterior walls (no sheathing). I assume you nail all through wall and butt wall top plate corners as soon as you get the walls up. Correct?
Do you then plumb the exterior walls and then nail all the interior wall top plate intersections and plumb them or do you plumb the interiors with the top plate laps loose then nail them down once plumb?
I hope I made myself a little more clear than mud.
Replies
I must have missed your previous questions so I'll add something to that mix.
It would be much simpler and easier if you squared the exterior walls on the deck and then sheathed them. I've raised many forty foot long walls fully sheathed. It just takes a few extra people to get them up. It's all part of "working smart".
I've stood by the road and stopped cars to find a few guys to help. Wearing my tool belt for effect, I pick out a car full of guys, hold up both hands, smile and ask for a few minutes help. If they don't respond right away, I'll offer "some beer money".
I would frame and sheath both the two longer walls before stopping cars or gathering friends for a little wall raising party. If that's out of the question I'd rent or buy a set of used wall jacks, then sell them again, after the job is over.
I'd do whatever it took to avoid sheathing exterior walls after they're raised. The work load is more than doubled, probably tripled, sheathing standing walls and it's more dangerous as well.
The top plates are usually laid out with a piece about five feet long at the end of each long wall. The exact length depends on the truss/rafter spacing, to avoid placing one of them over a joint in the top plate.
The long walls are raised first, fully sheathed with the top plate end pieces left off. The shorter two walls are laid out so that the sheathing will lap over the end of the longer walls, then framed and sheathed leaving the two end pieces of sheathing off.
Needless to say, these two walls are a tight fit so the two longer walls should be initially braced slightly out of plumb to the outside.
The top plate end pieces are nailed in place as soon as the intersection is completed.
Thanks but I have most of the walls up now but they are not sheathed. I just did not feel that comfortable with my skills yet. I have the walls up but they are not nailed down yet at the intersection laps. Do I plumb first and then nail all the intersections down or are they nailed first then plumbed second?
I'd tie them together as soon as they're in place.
Did you square the walls up on the deck and brace them, before raising them? Assuming that the floor is level, that will make the corners plumb.
Then, before you add braces to the interior walls which intersect the exterior walls, you can use your longest level to plumb those intersections.
My final step is to run a tight nylon string along the top plate, outside of each exterior wall. I tack a 2X4 block close to each end of the string, the string passing over it. The I use another 2X4 block as a guage to straighten the wall, adding braces in widow openings and possibly removing and replacing braces at intersecting walls so as to keep the wall straight.
I've gotten in the habit of leaving the plumb stick in the truck. As long as the floor is level within reason, and the walls are square and straight, plumb becomes a moot point.
No I did not square them on the deck. I'll just plumb the exterior corners, string line the exterior straight, then plumb my interiors, brace everything in between. Ho much bracing do you usually use on long walls? Thanks
Ya see...the thing is...that it's going to be more difficult to rack the walls into plumb, now that they're standing up. Good luck with that. If you have trouble, we'll figure out a way to do it.
I put braces about every eight feet, mainly using window openings and intersecting walls. If you'd like to use more, by all means...
Thanks. I appreciate the help.
Happy to be of assistance.
IF You marked the intersections of the walls carefully on both the top and bottom plates when doing your layout then yes you can nail the intersecting walls to those marks prior to plumbing the ends of the exterior walls.
Everything should be marked in relationship to each other and when you plumb the ends of the wall the intersecting plates will be brought into plumb as well. ( In theory anyway, and it generally does work but I always check things afterwards to be sure)
I do this more often on interior partitions that have intersecting walls then on exterior but it works in both cases.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
I marked everything Dt but will double check everything to bu sure.Thanks
I marked everything Dt but will double check everything to bu sure.
Why do you have to mark anything, aren't your double top plates on already with the space for the laps to go where your interior walls are going before you raised your walls?
Joe Carola
Edited 8/27/2008 5:40 pm ET by Framer
sounds like this is his first go around. so i think he is learning.
sounds like this is his first go around. so i think he is learning.
That's alright. He came to the right place. I'm just trying to make it easier for him.Joe Carola
If I understand him correctly and what I meant was when he first laid the wall out did he mark both plates accurately and at the same time. FWIW I do not worry about cutting my top plates "tick tight" to the intersection point. Had to fight too many times to get them to drop into place.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
If I understand him correctly and what I meant was when he first laid the wall out did he mark both plates accurately and at the same time.
I'm not following you there for some reason. I snap my lines for every wall on the floor and then I nail my shoe down and then lay my first top plate down tacked in on all the outside walls first and then do the interior walls butting into the outside walls. After that I lap all the outside walls never taking out my tape for any of the plating.
I just keep setting the plates on top. It's hard to make any mistakes that way.
Here's a thread with a couple pictures of what my plates look like before raising. No measuring plates at all.
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=59750.28Joe Carola
Framer
looked at your pics of the wall plates, I cut plates to length right off the chalklines as you describe, but just curious.... what do you feel your advantage is by nailing the bottom plate down, then lifting the wall and toenailing the studs into the plate? Interesting idea though, I may try it.
It's the way toenailers do it. I have framed like this in s.e. Va. for 35 years. I usually let the saw swipe the first of the top plates when I put the very top plate on. That way when you nail it together at the top you know the blade swipe is right on to what it was on the ground. So many think you have to sheath a wall before standing it are just creating a burden to get it up IMO. Sheathing walls already stood is simple and fast. Since we are sheathing horizontally anyway and need to reach the top plate to tie the rafter tie system all the way down, it almost makes no sense to sheath first anyway. Myself and one helper can easily handle a 40 foot wall if we leave out headers and lift the wall with the corners toenailed down to the shoe if needed.
Edited 8/28/2008 9:24 pm ET by shellbuilder
what do you feel your advantage is by nailing the bottom plate down
The nailed down plates holds the walls in place when raisng them. Here's another thread from couple years ago.
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=70448.66Joe Carola
Different approaches.
I lay out my ext. walls including marking for wall intersections then build (including sheathing generally) and stand the ext. walls.
Then I come back inside and snap out the interior walls and build them.
Top plates are already on the exterior walls and I top plate the interiors before raising them and slide them into position.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Once you have all your outside walls up and tacked in place you raise every single interior wall, nail all laps into the outside top plates. Now you nail your angled braces on your outside walls by nailing the tops in home and leaving the bottoms floating.
Now nail angled braces on the interior walls by nailing the tops in home and bottoms floating. Take your level and plumb the outside walls and nil the angled braces in. Pushing the outside walls plumb is nothing at all.
Once all four corners are plumbed and braced you nil piece of 5/4 or 2x on the outside of the top plates round the perimeter and string mason line around.
Now nail 12' 2x4's into the top of the studs on the outside walls in between the perpendicular interior walls no more than 8' part ,or nail them where a lap is. Then nail a 2' block on the deck into a joist.The other braces for pulling in or out are already on your perpendicular walls.
Take a small block the width that you used to string the line around the perimeter and slide that block up against the outside top plate where the braces are and push/pull the braces until they just touch the block and nail the braces that are on the perpendicular interior walls into the block on the deck.
Are you with me so far?
You are overthinking things in my opinion,
The biggest mistake I see people make is not making bottom and top plates the same length. If they are the same length, once any one corner is plumbed, it helps bring the next corner plumb and so on.
So, IF you feel that you accurately cut your top and bottom plates to the same lengths, I would suggest:
1)Tie together, then plumb your outside corners
2)Line your outside walls. You can set a string as mentioned previously, or you can sight down the wall by eye. With string, you can do it alone, By eye, you need 1 or 2 guys to move and brace the wall while you look along it. For me I prefer to do it by eye.
3)once your outside walls are plumb and lined (lined = straight), I would plumb and then connect each interior intersection, working from the outside in.
Hope this helps, there is no "standard" way to do this, everybody has their own favorite tips.
By the way, applying sheathing after the walls are up isn't ALL bad, their are some advantages:
-Much cooler in hot weather (ever notice how much hotter it gets after a few sides are up and their is no roof to provide shade?)
-The ability to lap sheathing over the rim joist.
-Much less work spent bending over on the deck, more done standing up (easier on my back)
-Switch tasks less often (dont have to switch from frame, then square, then sheath, then housewrap, then raise etc.
-If one story ,sheathing after is not bad, I run sheets horizontally....first course right off the ground, usually can do remaining courses right off a 6' stepladder leaning against the wall
Personally, I do usually sheathe my walls before lifting, but have done both ways and will continue, depending on the circumstances. Have Fun! To me, framing is the best part of building