About a month ago I paid a plumber a 50% deposit to do some work on the remodeling job we are doing. Basically, we are going to move the supply lines in the bathroom and add a couple of lines in the kitchen for the dishwasher and refrigerator. We initially had planned on moving the DWV system but we were able to avoid that by doing some design changing.
To date, this guy has only removed the tub. For the past 3 weeks he has said that he was going to remove the copper supply piping to the bathroom, but he hasn’t shown up. He also will not return my calls. Granted, I’m sure pipes are freezing all over the place and we just had a huge blizzard (I’m in the Boston area) and I know the guy is busy, but come on…3 weeks? It really puts us in a pickle because we really can’t do any framing until those supply pipes are gone.
This plumber does a lot of work for people I know and I assumed that he would treat us right as well. Is this guy in Aruba drinking margaritas with the deposit I gave him? Or am I just overreacting?
Thanks!
Replies
I've been there. its frustrating when you cant go ahead with a project because someone is holding you up.
I dont understand why you gave him any money up front. Its not like he needs to buy materials to do demolition
I say get someone else to cap the pipes. If and when the original guy shows up just hand him the bill from the 2nd plumber. Keep the project moving forward.
Believe it or not, I paid the guy thinking that my more than deposit would actually cause him to work faster. Figured he would then know I was serious about paying.looking back...that was a no no.Between getting the mortgage for this place and all the work that has to be done and all the frustrations...I never wanna be a new homeowner again!
"Believe it or not, I paid the guy thinking that my more than deposit would actually cause him to work faster. Figured he would then know I was serious about paying."
While I am sure your motives were the best the fact is money is a great reward but a lousy motivator. People will almost never work harder or faster for more money, but the will to get to the money. DanT
Yeah...in hindsight, it was stupid of me giving him the money right away. I got a little nervous when I saw that he deposited the check the very night I gave it to him.Problem is, I really can't afford to get another guy to do it. So looking at the proactice side, is there anything I can do to convince him to do this stuff in a hurry? should i try to do it myself?
It only gets worse as you and the house gets OLDER!
Wow, the guy finally called today and said he will be over this weekend. Of course he has said that before.......
Can we start a betting pool if he is going to show up? If it was me I would tell him to go F himself!
My 2 sons 14 & 16 both can run copper all day long, it's not that hard to do!
Sorry about the money up front part!
3 things you need to know to be a Turd Herder (Plumber)
1) $hit don't run up hill!
2) Wash your hands before lunch.
3) Quitting time is 3:30
If you need help E-mail me & I can walk you through it!
g......
3 things you need to know to be a Turd Herder (Plumber)
1) $hit don't run up hill!
2) Wash your hands before lunch.
3) Quitting time is 3:30
you forgot two things,
1...... don't bite your fingernails and 2...... watch out for lincoln logs and landmines.
,
glen..... i got that item.. thanks...
still trying to find a philly fan so i can add to it....
going to NC for our first granchild in February... think i'll take in an Outback with the new momma & daddyMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Good Deal. Enjoy!
Thought I would give you guys an update:Plumber did not show up during the weekend. Called him Sunday night and fired him. Came back Monday evening to find that he had taken out the copper. And he didn't even call me! Bastahd!
to find that he had taken out the copper
Hmm, really, now?
Seems like two things happened here.
One, he entered your property without expressed permission (you would not have granted him access to take material off site). That seems to meet a definition of "criminal tresspass."
Second, he left your premises with your property without your permission. (Part of your "half up front" was materials, wasn't it?) If you have paid for the materials, they are yours. Taking property that does not belong to a person is generally defined as theft in most jurisdictions.
Illegally entering private property (trespass) with the intention to commit theft is often the book definition of burglary, if memory serves.
Just 'cause he's mad you fired him does not mean he can take "his" toys home and sulk. Hope this is not turning into a deeper muddle. BUt, I've also been to the not-very-nice game of short on cash subs trying to "work" the draw system, too.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Sorry about your situation. How much $$ are you out? What a Punk A$$ Low Life, Bottom Feeder! Give us more information on what you need done plumbing wise. I am sure the group here could walk you through it!
If I was closer I would like to help you out. I sure for under $100 dollars you could get all the tools needed to finish the job. From the sounds of things I sure you can get-er Done.
Is this guy a real plumber, or just some guy working out of a truck with no license? I would let the local building dept know about this guy. If you want to make this dirtbags life rough, go to http://www.troubleshooter.com & fill them in on how this guy runs his biz.
Hope it all works out, Its SOBs like your x-plumber that gives the rest of us a bad rap!
4: Paydays on Friday
5: The boss is an ####
I dont understand why you gave him any money up front.
DITTO!
Is this guy in Aruba drinking margaritas with the deposit I gave him? Or am I just overreacting?
Hard to say. For a hard working plumber, your project may be just a "service call" kind of project--something he can send a spare hand over to do after you gripe enough times, if a hans is available to be spared on the contract (read steady work) jobs he's got going.
Could be the journeyman market has him "shy" some of the hands he expected to have when he agreeed to the project. (Texas just added a separate gas ticket to the plumber's licensing; if you didn't get the additional ticket done, you can't do those water heater jobs the boss booked.)
Could be, he's just a disorganized plumber. They exist. They book more work than they can perform. Why? Because they are disorganized.
You may have to "eat" the spent money. The shortest thing to do is to get another plumber to finish the work you have. If first plumber gripes, tell him he "busted" the deal you had by not showing up. If the guy is disorganized, or too busy, he'll probably let it drop.
Now, in all fairness, and to be in full rectitude, you likely need some legal opinions. Like do you have a real (as in enforceable) contract. Also, have both parties adhered to the contact provisions (doesn't sound like it from what you told us). That sort of thing. Why bother with legal (expensive) opinion? The second plumber may just want to know he's not wading into a deal that will wind him up in court and/or unpaid.
That's why "eating" the existing deal may be simpler. But that is not a suggestion, only a non-binding, reasonable man sort of statement; not recommendation nor professional advice in way shape or form.
If you are in cold country, he is probably out straight right now, working crazy hours and caving in when he gets the chance. You're probably on his mind along with a hundred others. You get a little nuts after working 18-20hr shifts and everything keeps hitting the fan. I've been having the same problem not only with the plumber but the electrician and the flooring installers. Jobs that should have taken three days are taking six weeks. Keep trying and try not to show your anxiety too much, he's already got plenty of stress too.
If you can do some of the work yourself, at least you'll get some of your part going. If you tell him you don't have anything else to do and you'll have to lay off your guys, he might put you on the top of the list. Many contractors are poor communicators. Might be worth a drive to his shop some morning, 7AM, just to know where you stand.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
yes, but even if there are people with pipes freezing, the plumber should STILL be taking into account his contract jobs. He shouldn't be signing on for 100 frozen pipe jobs if he's got enough regular business to keep himself busy.
The frozen pipe people call him and he should just say, "sorry, I don't have the time." Rather than screwing the people who scheduled the job ahead of time.
I had the main box go out on my house a couple years ago.. during December. I called my electrician and he was bogged down, so I tried a few others. Probably took me 8 or 9 before I got one that was able to get to it...and he couldn't come until 2 or 3 days later.
So I was in the dark for 2 or 3 days... in December, but the point is, that you can't just dump your scheduled jobs when unexpected jobs pop up. If you can work the job in, then fine... but you don't screw your scheduled job for a month to sneak the extra work in.
jt8
The two most abundant things in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison
Edited 1/27/2005 4:24 pm ET by JohnT8
Edited 1/27/2005 4:25 pm ET by JohnT8
Cut them pipes out yourself. It's not hard. The hard part is capping them up, but not all that hard. Especially if it's temporary.
Need some moral support?
J.
I think your main mistake was to not negotiate some sort of schedule, and put it in writing. Then paying him 50% down was another -- 25-30% should have been plenty.
My guess is that the guy is probably legit, but has other squeeky wheels to grease right now. Without a firm schedule/deadline to work to, he can't hear you squeek.
Been there too - on both sides. Keep calling him, but rather than leave a message stating your dissappointment, say that you imagine he is swamped with all the emergencies due to the cold weather and that you are flexible (wait) with scheduling, but need to be given a time frame or a target date for his scope of work.
He is probably swamped due to the extreem cold weather and poor scheduling. The last thing he needs is another paniced customer. What he wants is someone who has empathy and can relate to his flaw of trying to please everyone - an impossibility as you and I know.
This will at least get you a return phone call. Then, having set the foundation of understanding you can negotiate a schedule for his work and further payment.
This isn't hand holding. It may just be about someone who is simply overwelmed and meay just need a course in business. Most of us got into the trades because we liked working with our hands and liked the materials. The business end was an afterthought.
F.
Shame on him for not returning your calls! If you ONLY need the pipes out of the way then DIY should be easy. turn off the water, drain out the water below the cut line, cut the pipes clean the ends, install compression shut off valves (add alittle sealer to the brass rings, olives) tighten without going crazy tight. shut the valves, turn on the water slowly and listen for hissing or look for water weeps.
tighten without going crazy tight
Ah, but there, in a nutshell, is the "rub" of it.
That "just right" is elusive. It's taken me a couple of decades to even get to where I think I know the "feel" of it.
Of course, that means I still get that "Yeah!" when a connection goes together "just right."
Mind you, I also know plumbing is easy--just like framing . . . <g>Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Thanks guys...This is truly a learning experience. I should have been smarter about the whole thing. Guess I'm gonna be trying my hand at plumbing this weekend! Funny thing was that I was dead set on trying to do it myself anyways in the beginning, but my fiance talked me out of it.
Have at it, it really won't be that hard. Once your fiance sees how handy you are, you'll probably get a little.....extra.
"but my fiance talked me out of it"
My wife learned early that was the surefire way to get me to do it. Though she did talk me out of siding my dormers "because you have three kids and a wife to worry about". True, true.
Cut that plumbing and get it on!
MERC.
Strat, been there done that, found someone else to finish the job, and I got hauled to small claims courts for busting the contract!
What I would do is call and just innocently say, "Hey, I know you're busy, but I gotta get this job done/started. And no offense, but I'm going to have to get someone else to get this job going, I'd like to set up a time to pick up my deposit."
Also, you've already lost; you're going to do some of the work and I bet, even if things work out with your original plumber, there will be no credit for your efforts.
I agree with Maverick. Get some else, or yourself, to do it, and move on. When you see him, give him a bill plus 10% for inconvenience. Setting stagnate can spoil the whole job, and moral goes down the tubes. Good luck.
GB
he's over trying to figure out how to move a shower drain listed on another thread
send him the bye bye note with the picture listed in the woodshed tavern, listed as donkey picture or really azzholes