Replies

1. 
   AaronRosenthal | Dec 08, 2004 10:19am | #1

   Just a suggestion: please do an advanced search under CAD and you will see a large nimber of posts on this very topic. It comes up often.

   Quality repairs for your home.

   Aaron the Handyman
   Vancouver, Canada

    

2. 
   maverick | Dec 08, 2004 03:39pm | #2

   I use autocad. I took a night course at a local college to learn it. Its a lot more technical than most others that are packaged for builders but I can do more than they can when it comes to getting exact measurements for specialty items

3. 
   BDS | Dec 08, 2004 06:00pm | #3

   I'm a civil engineer working mostly in Land Development.  We use AutoCAD and the survey department uses Terrimodel.  AutoCAD has more features than you will ever need, but they have a LT (light) version that is quite a bit cheaper.  In my experience, AutoCAD has three advantages.  1.) Everyone seems to be using it; 2.) Those that don't have AutoCAD have programs that are "AutoCAD compatible"; 3.) Snapping to end points and getting exact measurements and quantities seems to be a lot easier.

   To trow in an added bonus, AutoCAD sells upgrades really cheap.  Many software companies charge slightly less initially, but make you pay nearly full price when you upgrade...

   D&C

   
   

   ---

   Edited 12/8/2004 10:05 am ET by Dazed and Confused

1. 
   robzan | Dec 09, 2004 09:07am | #26

   Thank you for the reply- a lot of you guys came in for autocad! I have heard that the learning curve is steep, but if you use it all the time it would be worht it.

1. 
   JohnSprung | Dec 10, 2004 04:34am | #27

   > I have heard that the learning curve is steep,....

   The learning curve for any CAD program is long.  CAD is a non-trivial subject, like calculus or dentistry.  "Easy" CAD is just as bogus as magic weight loss pills.  No such thing is possible.

   Therefore, choose wisely.  You will be spending far more time with your CAD program than you can ever imagine.  Your investment in money for a CAD program is peanuts compared with the time you'll put into it.  So don't cheap out.  Get something good.

   CAD, though, is also loads of fun.  At first, it can be like a really difficult puzzle or game.  But later you'll get to where you're able to do neat things like the 3-D that Piffin posted.  You'll lean back and grin at the results, but then you'll notice that it's 3:45 AM.  ;-)

    

   -- J.S.

    

1. 
   Piffin | Dec 11, 2004 09:34pm | #29

   "You'll lean back and grin at the results, but then you'll notice that it's 3:45 AM. ;-)" That is a big A-MEN! 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

4. 
   dano1 | Dec 08, 2004 06:15pm | #4

   I've been on AutoCAD for over 8 years.  AutoCAD LT retails for about $900, but is very versatile and powerful.  I've seen the cheaper programs, and they've been pretty restrictive on wall, door and window placement and size, and dimensioning is a nightmare. 

   One nice option with AutoCAD is how customizable it is.  you can have custom size furniture, details, and other items made into "blocks" that you can insert into future drawings.

   AutoCAD has a pretty long learning curve, but if you buy from a CAD dealer and not from someone off the internet, you can get technical service and help with setting up and running the program. 

5. 
   CapnMac | Dec 08, 2004 07:28pm | #5

   I'll second Dan-o on ACAD & AcadLT.  Autodesk also has a $200 product, AutoSketch, which can help a person get their "feet wet."

   If there is one advantage that AutoCAD has, it is that your methods can be directly transfered from board to computer.  It's only in the learning the commands to do what your hands already do, that there's much of a learning curve (which can be steep enough).

   This can be a good thing.  Some of the "intelligent" systems have you having to learn how to create wall systmes, or floor systems, just to get a drawing created.  Many of those work just fine--they jsut can be a hurdle, sometimes, to get going with right from a board. 

   Whereas, ACAD, if all else fails, will let you draw anything you want, one line at a time.  The true strength of any CAD program is in creating things once, and using them over and over again.  Not only do you not need that nifty green template, you aren't even tracing your pencil around its inside.  Even better, is learning how to attach information to graphics--this becomes very powerful.

   I'll admit to being biased, I've been using ACAD since 1984.  I'm a former registered applications developer, too.  And, I'm far too fluent in AutoLISP.  I've taught CAD drafting for many years, too (sometimes while also teaching basic drafting at the same time).

   Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
6. 
   JohnSprung | Dec 08, 2004 11:28pm | #6

   This has been covered often in other theads, but this one is the first time that all the AutoCAD guys showed up first.  ;-)

   I'm on ACad LT 2000i, upgraded to it from TurboCad.  The subtle thing that you only find out the hard way is that the AutoCad user interface is much more efficient for the basic drawing lines parallel and perpendicular, snapping to points sort of stuff -- the stuff you use the most.  Much less going to menus and changing modes.

    

   -- J.S.

    

1. 
   CapnMac | Dec 08, 2004 11:44pm | #7

   Much less going to menus

   That's my "knock" on Sketch--I've used the Command Line for so long, I hate having to go reach across the drawing to mash a toolbutton.

   Sweeping the cursor across the screen to go back to where you were just pointing just doesn't seem efficient to me.  But, I also go back to when all commands were typed in.  My exceptions are the Layer & entity change pulldowns--they are much faster than the equivalent Commands.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)

2. 
   Piffin | Dec 09, 2004 02:50am | #11

   Maybe all the ACAD guys weighed in first because they are out of work.
   < G, D & R>I half expected this to see more ACAD responses because it is a drafting fprogram, unlike the object oriented Computer-Aided DESIGN programs like Softplan, Chief Architect, and Vectorworks which have a lot more on the ball for residential design work. 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

7. 
   xMikeSmith | Dec 09, 2004 12:39am | #8

   robzan...

   i started on the boards in '69 when i got out of the army..

    tried AutoCad in the mid-80's and went back to my boards..

   a friend ( Harvard School of Design grad ) has 20 architects on staff... his college roommate wrote "Inside AutoCad". his firm uses VectorWorks

   most Design/Build guys on this forum  and the ones you meet at shows like JLC -Live

   use either SoftPlan... or  Chief Architect..

    we use Chief.. started in '97 with version 5.. now using the current one ..9.5

   the differences noted above in the CAD abilities of Chief vs. Autocad dissappeared a couple of versions ago.. IE: in a straight line/solid object .. 2 plane drawing .. Acad used to have an advantage.. but that is hardly true anymore

   the main thing about SoftPlan and Chief is that they are object manipulators.. IE: you don't draw lines ( unless you want to).. you draw with objects.. walls... floors.... roofs..windows..

   when you draw one of those it exists in 3-D.. and it has all  of the components in it..

   a wall has studs , plaster, siding, etc..

   a floor has joists, plaster below, subfloor and finsih floor above..

   so.. you draw what you build.. ACAD is not there .. and probably never will be.. because it is not an object based CAD system

   in terms of learning curve..

   if you are not going to use ACAD on a continuing basis, you will have a hard time becomming proficient

   with SoftPlan and Chief... and some hard work , the training CD's and a devotion to succeed.. you can actually draw a set of working drawings in about two weeks..

   as far as upgrades & $.. a full version of Chief with all of the bells and whistles runs about $1800. ... when  vs. 10 comes out , i expect to pay about  $400 to upgrade each of my licenses... i'll probably get a pre-release offer to upgrade all 3 stations for about  $700...

   user groups are important to your continuing development with any software..

    Chief has a hard core of power users and they are very helpful to newbies... anyone can join the Chief User Group.. wether they own Chief or not...

   the emails from the user group run to about 50 posts / day

   Mike Smith   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

1. 
   Piffin | Dec 09, 2004 02:52am | #12

   Two weeks?
   I just billed fourty five hours for a whole house except for the kitchen, which is still in research and concept phase. Maybe another couple of days on that yet. 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

2. 
   robzan | Dec 09, 2004 04:13am | #15

   Thanks Mike for your reply. I have a friend that is going to help me draw my next project in Chief. It is a detatched garage with a 12/12 roof. The roof will be dormered on both sides and have a apartment under the roof. That ought to be a nice, simple project to learn on. Thank you for the advice on the on line support too.

8. 
   buildit4you | Dec 09, 2004 01:41am | #9

   robzan,

   I'm a softplan user and I love it. I've draw at least twenty houses and even some multi floor condos. I still use my early version of auto cad (generic cadd it's called) to do simple line drawings for shop work.

   Phil Powell (buildit4you)

1. 
   BillHartmann | Dec 09, 2004 01:47am | #10

   "my early version of auto cad (generic cadd it's called)"Generic cadd was not an early version of ACad.It was a completely separate program.Then ACad bought it out and dropped it after a short time.

1. 
   Piffin | Dec 09, 2004 02:57am | #13

   actually, there is some minor shirtail relationship there. You are totally right that ACAD bought geneeric Cad to shelve it and eliminate the competition, but one or two of the developers of gencad were originally from Autodesk, according to an engineer I know who had known one of those guys back then.take it for what it is worth.The point that is important here is that in the same way that MS has dominated the OS market by buying or punching out the competition, Autodesk has tryed to dominate the design market by subduing, shelving, or otherwise stifling the competition rather than by producing a superior product. 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

9. 
   efix2 | Dec 09, 2004 03:47am | #14

   Whichever one you choose, make sure you go and get a GIANT monitor.  It'll let you put more on the screen with less scrolling, etc..

   I get mine cheep at the computer shows from the Chinese dudes that fix them.

   ;-)

1. 
   robzan | Dec 09, 2004 04:17am | #16

   THank you all for the great advice! I appreciate all you guys weighing in on this. This forum is superb!

2. 
   robzan | Dec 09, 2004 04:18am | #17

   Thanks for the tip- I will be looking for those chinese guys....

1. 
   FastEddie1 | Dec 09, 2004 05:25am | #18

   If all you want the cad program to do is to draw 2d like you currently do on the board, then there are several capable programs.  I use AutoCad LT.  If you want true 3d, AutoCad is not a good choice.  I use Chief Architect for that, SoftPlan is also good.

    Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!"  Then get busy and find out how to do it.  T. Roosevelt

2. 
   caseyr | Dec 09, 2004 05:40am | #20

   If I remember corectly, AutoDesk is really hardass about transferring AutoCad licenses to someone else. A regular license from AutoDesk is a fairly substantial investment, and one that, if things go sour, you might hope to get something back by selling it. However, at least according to the standard license of a ciyoke if years ago, you can only sell and transfer an AutoCad license if you prove to AutoCad that you have ceased to exist as a company. As I read the license agreement, if you as an individual want to sell an AutoCad license to someone else, it would be a breach of contract.

10. 
    BMan | Dec 09, 2004 05:30am | #19

    Autocad, with a big twist- Architectural Desktop.

    Autocad itself is a rudimentary drawing tool, as many earlier posts pointed out. You only draw lines, arcs, etc. With Architectural Desktop, you draw walls, doors, etc, all in 3d and 2d at the same time, and within the Autocad format.

    The down side is a BIG learning curve. As an architect, I use it every day, so it is worth it. It does everything you could ever need, and more. Also, pretty expensive at about $3400 a seat.

     

     

11. 
    PHILLK | Dec 09, 2004 05:52am | #21

    Have'nt heard anyone mention Vector. I've been using this CAD software and its predecessor MiniCAD for the last nine years and have been thoroughly pleased. I work off a Mac platform (that makes everything easy) and have found it to be intuitively easy to operate. It can read and export Auto CAD formats. It's 3-D capacities are adequate (hav'nt had many clients spring the bucks for a time consuming rendering). I love it's digital terrain modeler (DTM) which I use extensively for topographical plot plans and cut-and-fill estimating. And as a basic 2-D drafting program, its range and pallets of tools meet all my needs. Also (as you will find) in 1-1 scale drafting, you'll be printing off full scale templates and patterns for all your construction needs. The list goes on (this is the case for most CAD programs) Welcome to the PRESENT! Threw my drafting tools away back in the early 90's, will never go back!
    Also, as someone mentioned, get a 20" or greater monitor for best viewing and keep your smaller one hooked up also to monitor your tool pallets and other applications. I use two 20" monitors side by side. Good luck!

1. 
   Piffin | Dec 09, 2004 06:05am | #22

   Renderings? did somebody say remnderings?My favorirte part of working with softplan.
   Why?Sales tool
   Communications tool
   Wow toolplus, it helps me think things out...Mind you, i have plnety of respect for Vectorworks having seen some of what it can do and working with several designers who use it fluently.But SP is my darlin' 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   robzan | Dec 09, 2004 09:03am | #24

   Thanks Piffin for the reply, and the gif looks cool

12. 
    Diamond | Dec 09, 2004 06:24am | #23

    I have softplan lite, works great, easy to learn and great tech service. They will send you a free demo cd so you can check it out.

1. 
   robzan | Dec 09, 2004 09:04am | #25

   thanks for the reply diamond.

2. 
   dano1 | Dec 11, 2004 08:40pm | #28

   when we were doing a lot of commercial design, AutoCAD was great because I could import surveyer's digital drawings and use for my site plan, and my HVAC/Plumbing/Electrical engineer could use our digital drawings for backgrounds.

13. 
    Isamemon | Dec 11, 2004 09:53pm | #30

    Have used others

    now ( 5 years) use Chief Architect

    very user friendly, great forum, fast to learn, youlll be drawing in a day

    but regardless of choice , make sure your computer system will handle it

1. 
   Piffin | Dec 11, 2004 10:10pm | #31

   What others have you used?Just curious.SP is my first, almost except for Generic CAD, but I have a passing acquaintance with TurboCAD, Intelicad, and have seen Chief and vector demos etc.Only thing m ore impressive than SP I think was called Archicad 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   MikeSmith | Dec 12, 2004 12:22am | #32

   i'm pretty sure one of the local architects uses Archicad.. you're right. it was impressive..

   but so is Softplan & Chief..

   i bet i use about 10% of  the capabilities of  Chief....there are parts of it i have never even opened.. like rendering & raytracing.... terrain...

   one a dese daysMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

1. 
   Piffin | Dec 12, 2004 12:41am | #33

   yahI have never used the site drawing module in SP and have barely introduced myself to the custom components creation. The Softlist estimating is a good tool for me on new work, but takes more effort to refine for remodel work because individual components need to be edited in or out of the listing. 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!