I have turned over the tool belt for a day timer & cell phone.
Was hired by a company that I used to sub finished carpentry work off of as their Construction Manager & I have a question.
I am used to doing everything myself but with this new position I am sticky management & I’ve run into a problem.
We have the plumber install his shower/tub units in the houses after the framer is completed his work (less chance of damage to the units) & all the plumber does is sit the tubs in place. There is some framing required around the units that we are not able to do until the tubs are installed.
I was going to have the plumber do it as part of his job but he’s not a carpenter & its not nearly straight or level enough for me. I have been doing it myself but we have just too many houses on the go for me to do it all.
I wonder what other builders do. Do you have a staff carpenter for such things? We have laborers on site but none of them actual carpenters. They can replace a stud or a little trim as required but they aren’t able to take care of this task.
Looking for suggestions.
Thanks
Replies
Must be a tub or shower with plastic walls?
Around here it would be called Back-out. The framers (rough carpenters) go back after all the mechanical trades (plumbers, Hvac & electricans) finish their rough ins. They make sure all framing is done including any soffits or mechanical chases. Insulation / drywall ready!
It must be called back out because it's like, dang, I've got to go back out to that job and finish it.
I would venture to say it is done in areas where quite a few "paper" GCs do business. By that I mean GCs with little or no carpentry staff, that sub out 100 percent of all work.
In areas like that it is likely that framing subs, when asked to do so, will put back out work in their quotes, and do the work when and as required. It is all a case of communication and relationship development. If your framing sub or subs aren't doing it now it is because they did not get asked to, and therefore didn't put it in their pricing.
Talk to them, work it out, and let us know what happens.Gene Davis, Davis Housewrights, Inc., Lake Placid, NY
Is it something that you could have the framers 'panalize' for the plumber to stick in?
Just a thought.
rough punch list ... which the Lead Carp on site usually takes care of.
"We have laborers on site but none of them actual carpenters."
So who's in charge of them? Seems Like yer missing an "on site" carpenter.
at the very least ... I'd ask the tile sub ... bet he'd at least do what's needed .. and better the a laborer. Bet it costs twice as much too.
Jeff
Jeff, the guy can operate as a "paper contractor," have neither a lead carpenter, carpenters on payroll, nor be a carpenter himself.
He subs 100 percent of the job, provides everyone with good plans, specs, schedules, and followup communication. He is on site as often as is necessary to keep everything moving and getting done right. I have observed guys doing this that are on site for an hour or two, sometimes only once per week.
In many markets, a lot of new homes are put up with this kind of GC. As I commented, he simply needs to have his framing sub include all "back out" work in his pricing. We heard from a Breaktimer in a Colorado market where this is standard operating procedure.
The first new house I built was done that way. My framing sub came in at the end of all mechanical rough ins, and in a half a day did all the soffit drops, missing backing at corners, duct wraps, blocking for handrail and stuff like towel rod, etc. It was done with the same blitzkrieg efficiency as occured when they framed up.Gene Davis, Davis Housewrights, Inc., Lake Placid, NY
I've subbed when it's been done both ways ...
having the framer come back is indeed an option, and works ok as long as it's spelled out in the beginning ... and U have a good/honest/good framing sub.
Having a lead carp on site to direct the whole show and do the pick up work may sound more expensive in the beginning ... but theu less stress and more efficency I bet it ends up saving a bit of money ... if not at least some gray hairs.
I was picking up on the comment that he had some laborers to pick from ... but no one qualified. I'd lose 2 or 3 laborers and get a solid lead carp on site. Probably makes for better use of the laborer too ... they're generally not real good about policing themselves.
Jeff
The plumber does not do framing. If the frame is out 1/8 inch or more its his resonsibility to make it level and square; if its more than that, its the general contractors problem. [Bye the way; I've been in the plunbing trade for 40 plus years]. Luck.
I've been in your position before, and had my own carpenters. We did custom remodeling and not new homes, but all the same, I had one ace who was my floater. He made good money. He could do just about anything in framing, finish, plumbing, electrical, tile, sheetrock, roofing, hardware, you name it... as long as it wasn't the whole job. No way you'd ask him to frame or trim a whole job. That wasn't his mentality.
So, he was the guy that went where needed and did what was needed, including the backout you're talking about. There are lots of times when a sub is working and there needs to be a carpenter there, punching holes, doing blocking and backing, fixing the huge ugly notches that unsupervised plumbers make, stuff like that.
Bottom line, as a PM you really want a guy like that. If you have your own carpenters and are not subbing everything, start to designate one guy as your go-to for pickup and small stuff.
Damage to installed baths can be an issue. However we find that all follow up trades are aware of this and are generally carefull. ( we do around 12-18 frames a year and to date the one and only bath damage we've had was by me when I was installing ). As our baths are checked into the framing, there is no way we can install the bath after sheetrocking.
regards
Mark
http://www.quittintime.com
The last thing you want is a plumber doing carpentry. The carpenter contractor must have a "back-out" man come in after all of the mechanical trades are finished to check for drywall backing, missing or bowed studs, etc. This should be standard procedure and any carpenter contractor worth his weight would want to get his own carpenter back in there to do a final check before insulation and drywall.