The U-build-it, etc thread got me wondering how many here got started building a house (or even garage) 100% – zero subs. Stuff like the concrete truck driver, deliveries, and inspectors don’t count. I’m talking doing the drawings, digging the dirt, all design, concrete finishing, all framing, elec, plumbing, carpets, cabinets, all HVAC, etc. , maybe even including digging your own well and cutting a road in? Family member participation counts in the 100% part.
Know Jeff V. (Luka) did his own original dwelling in Index 100% out of necessity, and recall reading that Frank (Notchman) and Ron (Boss Hog) plus VATom & Frenchy (in process?) have done or are doing a 100% build. There are a number of others I’m sure have all the skills, but cannot mentally put together a list of those who have done so or are in the process.
How many others have done a 100% job at least once??
Any 90 percenters, or is this world really getting to be the age of specialists even for self-sufficient breaktimers?
IMHO, the real big savings and knowledge building, esp for a 20 YO something, comes from the 100% path. Realize this is not legally possible in all locations unless one is willing to get multiple licenses.
BTW, after tearing my rotator cuff totally thru (still in recovery after surgery Jan 14, at least 6 months yet to swing a hammer again), DW wants to limit my DIY stuff – fat chance <G>. It is heck to get old, that’s why i put the 20YO part in the above query!
Edit PS; I sure have got a lot of good-natured flak from friends about my $10,000 cost (mostly the insurance co.) to save $5 of fixing a flat on the dump truck DIY. (tore the rotator cuff taking the tire off the rim)
Edited 3/2/2005 9:18 pm ET by JUNKHOUND
Replies
Two years ago I built an addition on my own house, a master suite with full bath and finished basement, and I did everything except the backhoe dig for the basement, so that's not 100%. Never the less it about killed me and I'll never do it again. Life's too short.
I'm 24 and have "done it all" minus a few major things like installing furnaces and air conditioners.
The "done it all" has come across a varity of projects, but I've been in the thick of it all. I've hand dug foundations, set up forms, been in on the pour, framed, insulated, wired, and everything else there is to do.It's nice to learn how to do all of it and makes me appreciate the subs that much more.
I built my whole house from concrete to elecrical to plumbing to putting on the steel roof. I think everybody need to do it once.
I do remodels and additons like that , I probably sub out maybe 1 - 4 tasks per year.... it usually is not due to not being able to do those tasks but more schedule related ( to get us back on ). Customers apreciate being able to have one company and one schedule to deal with... ie there is no time waiting on other trades to get in and do their thing.. we just move on the next task ( after inspections etc )
now we are not talking about small remodel's either. I generally get involved in the "Whole House Remodel" etc, it often even leads to a substantial ammount of work on the exterior.
not being specialized tends to make us more expensive than the sub everything crews but i feel that in the end we give a better product and usually in less time ( read no/little down time). IMHO it is the way to go and i have left behind a trail of smiling faces to prove it.
james
There was nothing I didn't help with. Dragged hoses for the shotcrete, pulled wires for the electrician, ran the pex for the HVAC, ran backhoes with the excavators, carried tools and dragged concrete with the flat-work guys, set fixtures with the plumbers, set the windows and doors, all framing, all tiling, all flooring. Can't say it was planned that way. Would review the work with any sub, then hang around in the bkg to make sure they had no dome-related difficulties, then I'd grab a tool or two they couldn't reach, and before you knew it, my hands were as dirty as theirs. None asked me to bug off, maybe be/c I signed the checks, but hopefully be/c I would usually do the hauling and lifting and cleanup and skut work rather than butt in on the glamour stuff.
i've never sweat a copper pipe in my life - that I know of. Something about plumbing and me - god just didn't intend all that water to stay put in those little pipes, so He annointed me to help it find a way to escape.
Other than that, I can't think of anything I haven't tried at one time or another. Did it all on my place exccept for the boiler and plumbing.
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
ahhhhhhhhh..... Pif.....
you haven't got a boiler....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
guess again
Want a picture?
Says New Yorker Residential Heating Boiler right on top
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
ROAR!!!
seein' if you we paying attentionn.
did you you put the vents in for it yet...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Naw, that Pella door is sucking enough fresh air in for all three of us.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
do I need to show up again...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Door is always open, so to speak.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
probably made ya go look too...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
just for the name. Almost nobody haas furnaces here. All boilers and hydronics
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I should add that while my wiring work got the electrons flowing and passed muster, IMERC made ti really work without flickering and such.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I tought him how to do that.
Imagine! ...and that was before you turned fourteen! Happy birthday!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Ive done it all in about 6 houses. Two were log cabins where I cut the logs; skidded them out with a team of mules and notched and raised them , gathered the rock and laid chimney and foundations. Course Im the son of a "done it all" so I had some confidence. Still do about about 85% but laying block just lost its charm. Around here its do it your self or wait for ever for reliable decent labor.Plus I like the control and flexibility it gives me on the job. Now my own house is a seperate story since I did it all too except every board in it was cut with a handsaw before i later put in solar electric.Pass the tiger balm please!!!
make mine menthol
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Boy, I have done it all at one time or another, but never all on one project, and never on one of my own houses. I have to agree that someone in their 20s could definitley gain alot by doing all of their own house, from experience to sweat equity.My first house, I did everything except for the road and septic {helped though)...and there was no sheetrock in the house, and had a spring instead of a well, way easier...and I was in the 20-30 cusp<G>2nd house I framed, sided, roofed, trimmed, floored, and cabineted. All the while, I worked like hell to pay the excavator, mason, plumber, electrician, insulator, drywaller, well driller, tiler, painter, and septic folks, plus I did help them all...still came out with an appraisal twice what we put in it...but, I could have done more, just not quite as efficently as a pro, and come out even farther ahead...but that sheetrock and paint would have knocked the appraisal way down, ha, ha, ha Don't worry, we can fix that later!
count me in...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Two story addition on my own home....although plumbing and electric require their own licenses.....I did it all.....not all of the plumbing and electric.....but portions of each.....at the very least.
FREE SANCHO RON
can't think of anything I haven't done or helped with... but I am smart enough to know what I am good at and what I am REALLY bad at.
Like Piffin... pipes and I just don't get along. I will still do an occasional install of a toilet... and can handle drainage.... but copper ain't my thing (unless you consider 1 joint per hour as proficient!)
Carpet and I have an agreement with each other! :)
Finish grade I can do with a bobcat... but as I said in another thread... I'm not allowed on a dozer anymore! (Wife's decree)
I have only helped with HVAC... and I just didn't like it... though I'm OK at it.
In my own home I'm a 90+%-er. Had two weekends of my brother coming down to help, but mostly eat and watch, when I was framing.
4200 sqft, 2-story colonial w a walk-up finished attic.
On the house itself, I didn't do the poured foundation, the rough chimney/fireplaces, or the drywall. A man's got to know his limitations, and back then, with the scope of the project ahead of me, 70 yards of liquid stone, possibly CO poisoning my family, and if I recall, 270-plus 12' sheets of 5/8ths inch drywall? Those are my limitations.
I've done all those since...but back then I needed them done yesterday and subbing them out was the smart thing to do.
Did pretty much everything else. Did all the design and drawings to pull the permit.
Did the site clearing and excavation layout, stumping, hole digging.
Did the framing, roofing, windows/doors, exterior trim, siding.
Plumbing, electrical (from trenching 600' to street, to the meter box, service panel, and through rough and finish electrical). Did insulation. Radiant floor heat. Did the A/C (except setting the condensers and adding Puron, subbed that out).
Built my own cabinets/closets and built-ins. Flooring? Did tile and slate on some floors. 3200' of brazilian cherry and 800 feet of bamboo (bamboo in the attic). Did (still doing) all the trim. Milled most if it myself, including for the most part, a different style of raised panel wainscotting in every room. Built my own stairs. Made my own kitchen countertops. Did all my own kitchen cabinets...mortised too many doors for too many hinges.
Made my own fireplace surrounds...mantels, raised hearth, slate tiles, etc.
Landscaping? I hired out the drilled well, but did pull and replace the pump last year (lightning strike). Did about 1300 sqft of blusestone laid over 40 tons of stonedust for a two-tiered backyard patio. Subbed out the swimming pool, but did all the sitework, poured the slab around it, but I still have to do another 1700' of bluestone over the 1700 sqft of slab. Built my own square picket fencing, several hundred feet of it. Did my driveway (900' long), subsequently had it chipsealed.
Built a few hundred feet of stonewall. The stonewall is from rock pulled from the foundation excavation and when I rototilled the yards that were to be seeded and the gardens to be planted. Damn rocks.
I have to say, junkhound that you're the one guy on this forum that has done most everything. And I mean everything. I've always enjoyed and marveled at your "what I did last weekend" posts.
What, you gonna tell us youdid all that and you ain't got nopictures, man me we need proof. :-)
What, you gonna tell us you did all that and you ain't got no pictures, man me we need proof. :-)
Butch, here's a pic of my kids helping with the excavation. Tough hole to dig...sandy soil...high water table...
Been there, dun that.
And that.
Started 30 years ago when there were no subs around.
Best way to learn, I think. I wonder how many now get to work on all the components of a building?
Now I pursue projects that offer something different, something challenging, something new.
I still take pride in doing the simplest things well, though.
I think I am in your 90% category.
I started our house in Oct 2000, and we moved in Nov 2001. Of course to qualify for the 90% I suppose it has to be finished LOL!
I couldn't legally do the plumbing, and would not have wanted to, in any case.
Also didn't do the gas piping, or heating, septic, or well. Had an electrician's help to set the panel, and paid him for 2 hrs of his time to show me how to wire the house to code.
Oh, and had to have an excavator with a track hoe finish the hole, after trying to dig it with a small Tractor/loader/backhoe, and my old Ford 801 tractor.
Bowz
While in grad school I was paying my tuition working for a general contractor as a carpenter laborer doing earthquake repairs (Loma Prieta earthquake). I was lucky enough to hook up with a contractor who placed more value on doing a job to be proud of then making a lot of $.
I spent my summer and then a never ending series of weekends building a fully self contained 500 sq. foot cottage where I did everything except run the concrete pump pouring the slab and tape and texture the sheetrock. I was nursing a broken wrist so I was happy to spend the money and get the taping done.
Other than those two things and having a friend help lift heavy stuff like: tilt up walls, raise the ridge, set rafters, hang 12 footers of 5/8 rock on the ceiling, etc I did it all.
The funny thing is it felt a lot more like a real graduate education buliding that cottage than getting a degree in communication studies.
I got to do so many things that a contractor could never have given me full responsibility for with no prior experience.
ie.
cutting a roof and gable dormers, hanging french doors, installing granite slab countertops, building my own cabinets, building a shower pan, wiring the house, etc.
I learned so much on that cottage I don't know where else I would have gotten the experience or the confidence to take on these projects.
I got a lot of side jobs from people who saw it take shape and were impressed by the end result.
I built it on my ex step mothers property in a rural area close to the Silicon valley. She is currently renting it out for 1500 month. It worked out well as I got to live there rent free for 7 years and spent about 25 grand on top quality materials. She now has some nice retirement income in exchange.
It opened up so many opportunities for me having that experience under my belt that I emphatically agree everyone should aspire to do the same (if they have the urge)
BTW check out my tree toppling post if you get a chance.
Thanks, Karl
I never had the priviledge of building a new home from scratch...but I've remodeled quite a few.
I've designed and built garages, and additions. Done practically everything electrical including changing outside services, breaker boxes, sub panels, and wiring up practically every type of outlet / switch and fixture.
I hate to plumb, but I do it...copper sweat, PVC, water supply runs and DWV systems.
I've dug my own foundation footers, both by hand and with mini backhoes...and I've poured more concrete than I like to think about....footers, foundation slabs, porches, retaining walls, sidewalks, driveways, and garage/basement floors.
I can lay tile, stucco walls, hang drywall, finish drywall, frame, roof, siding, soffit/fascia, windows/ doors...including garage doors...
Have also designed and installed various size decks. I've replaced load bearing walls, installed cabinetry...have built a fair amount of cabinetry, built various concrete steps and wooden steps, ( would love to build a spiral staircase..have nevr done that.) handrails....I can weld...am certified...but don't hardly ever do it so not sure how good I am anymore...probably not too good.
The one thing that I do not do...well, I've done it in the past, but choose not to do it any more...is lay up concrete block or brick. I've even laid brick paver driveways before, but that's a thing of the past. Never dug a well...always tapped into existing City water/sewer systems.
Have torn out and installed gas fired furnaces and central air conditioning units and gas fired fire place stove units. Have changed out underground gaslines ( last time was last winter in January with a windchill of -2 degrees...talk about fun.)
Heck, I've even built floats for parades. I've made desks, tables, window seats, picture frames and even cut my own glass for the picture frames.
I've never built a swimming pool, though people have asked me to.
I've installed fencing...including cyclone, wood, and vinyl types. Have built several sheds, but never built a gazeebo...would like to someday.
The thing I like the most ( I find it relaxing)...is staining and finishing hardwood trim. The second thing I like is installing finish trim.
The thing I hate the most...definately is plumbing.
The thing I wished I had the most of.........MONEY!
Davo
U guys tire me out just reading all this ...
that .. and ya need to make better friends with subs.
just last year I was thinking we should finally replace that old cast iron drain stack while I had the wall open ... so I called my plumber buddy ...
in one tenth the time he had her cut and the new patched in ... then he decided I should have a new stack from the kitchen sink to the basement ... plus some new water supply lines to feed it .... this was after he decided that I'd like some new supply lines that served the bathroom .. since we had to open that floor for that first main stack ... oh ... that also involved pulling and resetting the toilet and flange ...
after he washed his hands ... we ate pizza and drank a beer ...
he charged me $250.
Best $250 I ever spent.
had a helper kid there to help us keep the carp work ahead of him ... cost another $100 ... same pizza and beer.
$350 .. got the whole house pretty much replumbed and a nice new bath subfloor ...
Don't mind saying I didn't do it myself at all!
Quite the relaxing day, as a matter a fact ...
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
Done it all several times.
Now, I don't do concrete work, or complete roofing jobs in the summer time. Since we only have two seasons (Christmas and summer), that pretty much leaves out concrete work and complete roofs.
I'm just too old to keep up with the really hard manual labor anymore. James DuHamel
He who dies with the most toys.... Still dies!
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his soul?" MARK 8:36
http://www.godsfreemusic.com
"I'm just too old to keep up with the really hard manual labor anymore."
This post is making me feel good and bad . Im glad I didnt pick framing or concrete as a carreer. I couldnt do either one now to make a living at it.
Im glad I plumb and do electrical cause its a lot easiar work than the above for side line work. I dont regret not being able to hang drywall anymore . <G>
I would still roof if I could hire the roof loaded or hire a helper that would do it . A few years ago the lumber yard sold a truck that loaded roofing on top. It was worse than losing my dog. That ended it for me alone.
Tim Mooney
Edited 3/3/2005 8:55 am ET by TIMMOONEY52
That's the way to do it. Even though I have (and still do on occasion) do it all...I think it's a waste of time. If you can get a sub to do it and make something off that sub, then do that.
First job at 16 helped my father build a house from the ground up. Everything including the carpet. My father wasn't a cabinet maker so I helped my uncle do that. Been hooked every since. Now mostly subs do the work.
Actually, I didn't do 100% of my spec house. But I did a heck of a lot of it.
I like what Rich from Columbus said also describes me: "Can't think of anything I haven't done or helped with... but I am smart enough to know what I am good at and what I am REALLY bad at."
When I built that house, I didn't want to end up with an ulcer or never see my kids. I also do a lot of volunteer work in the community, and didn't want to give that up. (Although I have more free time in December now)
(-:
I can do plumbing, but hired a plumber instead. And I can do electrical, but hired an electrician instead. And no way was I gonna try to tackle pouring a foundation.
.
I think you and I talked once before about being raised to look down on anyone who didn't do their own work on their house/farm. Anyone who hired someone to do THEIR work was rich and/or lazy.
But I no longer feel that way. I can see that there are often danged good reasons for hiring something done.
Don't really know if I have a point or not. Maybe it would be that I'm glad I know that I *CAN* do just about anything if I need to. Bit I don't feel COMPELLED to do everything.
.
BTW - Hope your arm is feeling better, and I hope it doesn't slow you down too much.
Ill answer your question , then read the thread . Im interrested what others say as well.
My father was a builder and made three sons the same . Mother worked too some, but she had us as a full time job. We did it all but whats funny about it is we all eded up specialized. We all ended up helping each other , but when we got a lot of work we split up with crews. Yours truly was a crew leader at 18 hanging and finishing drywall, trimmming , wall paper insulation ,painting and electrical. Weird huh? It got to where the other brothers didnt do this part and neither did Dad. I know why I got the insulation , as I was the youngest. Dad did all the dirt work , footings , and he was our mason and tile setter. He did all site work and anything that mixed or poured cement or mud mix. He still stands as the best rock layer Ive ever seen. Mebbe I predjudice. <G> He put me with a plumber for two years that did the three trades . I never did learn HVACR, but helped him with it. Funny thing again is that this plumber had me wiring and crawling under houses and running stacks in attics. <G> So he used me to specialize. I got tired of it too and went back to the original but kept electrical.
Before the H/A , I could do all the trades well enough to draw wages on them all. I wont say I can make money now at them all , but I can instruct or help. Anyway the knowledge is still there , but to some extent seems useless to a degree now as the ability is lacking . Isnt it funny ? When we were young that was switched!
Tim Mooney
Started on this project in November '97, completed the renovation and addition this past summer. My wife and I did everything, with the exception of the concrete cutting and flatwork.
Edited 3/3/2005 8:55 am ET by Timbo
And after....
From demo to painting over and over again for 15 years.(fire restoration jobs) (Only build 2 new houses.) The very last job was my house. That was the only time I wished that I hire someone else and the only job that is not 100% done.
Billy the plumber and Frank 'knight' my electritian, only show up to tell us "what to do" and sign off the permit.
I didn't excavate for this place or install the septic, only helped. Everything else, including drilling the well though. There isn't any H or AC, only V, so I can't claim expertise there. Hell, I can't claim expertise in much of anything but shop woodworking.
Not like I intended to do it all, just worked out that way. I was running a cabinet shop at the time and found it impossible to get a concrete house here, almost everything was block. Bought a how-to book, hired some unskilled help, and had at it. Later found that as a non-GC, subs didn't show much interest. Got a job to do and nobody else to do it? Well...
The next (larger) house is barely out of the ground but it'll be a similar project. 50' indoor pool included (which only has a bottom so far). I'll use some more unskilled help, especially with the formwork, but rise or fall, it's mine. And instead of the 16" out of level excavation on this place, I did a little better job operating the loader than the "professional" who also left me with a 30% slope driveway (since replaced).
Gotta finish the copper roof on my 4 floor lumber shed first if this #%*^& snow ever melts. And my insurance agent called me "retired". Ha!
DW keeps telling me I'm getting a little old for this stuff, but I figure it's what keeps you going. Balding? Naw just kept growing, up through my hair. State of mind, that's the key.
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
I have.
Got scrubbed from the NAS in '85?
I had worked in the field of const. before, during and now after.
I absolutly love it.
My main focus is custom furniture and instruments of playable ability..seems to be a dearth of that right now.
Mighthave the same owwwie you have, I am just too stubborn to commit to a medical regime.
Take it slow, JH..take it slow.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Restoring, Remodeling, Reclaiming The Quality..
My Owwwie was so bad I could not even lift my right arm 2 inches. Hope yours is not so bad. Have talked to quite a few people with rotator cuff tears, many saw a small tear will heal in 3 years without any surgery. Mine was torn clear thru and off the bone, nothing left together to heal so surgery a neccessity.
Supposed to take a year to fully recover, had to slice me open four inches long.
Now is 6 weeks after the rotator cuff surgery and can at least type well and lift a fork <G>.
Think as others have said that the days of carrying 6 sheet of 1/2 drywall at a time are definetly over (heck 1 sheet seemed heavy last year already).
New summertime project will be locating and refurbing an old bucket truck to avoid climbing and lifting.
EEY carummba!..Me thinks, i'll be on the same road....my lefty side ain't playin well with others.....already had the bicep reattached to it's self..30k in 1990.....Now it's all getting flunky again.Thanks..I think.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Restoring, Remodeling, Reclaiming The Quality..
Two houses, but I can't say 100%, maybe 80. I didn't dig the hole for the basements or septic. The septic tank, and lines were laid in by helpers. My friends that like to drink gave me the most help, of course we drank at the end of the day... Without them, I'd still be on the first one...... You know, crazy Lacey was the only one I had worried about, like getting hurt and stuff. He's a Vietnam Vet, he yells and screams for no apparent reason, he worked by himself a lot. I had shown one of my buddies how to do some plumbing, (he had no clue, mid 1970's), now he has a plumbing business, darn good too. I did this stuff as a side job until 4-30-04, I retired from my 'real' job of 27 years, now GCing is all I do. Sometimes I feel like Red Green.....
GB
I guess I fall in the 99%+ category. I've done everything except the excavation on the additions to my house. The work included pouring footers, laying block, framing, wiring, insulating, drywall, brick for gas fireplace, tile, finish trim, etc. This was for a 230 SF addition with a 13'x8' porch on the side. It was a great learning experience but took over a year to complete (still not done!) since I was only working on it evenings and weekends as it fit my schedule. I have a family and work 40+ hours per week as an engineer, so I don't always have a lot of free time.
The funny thing was the family that sold us the house wanted to add the same size room (without the extras like a fireplace, cathedral ceilings, porch, tile) and were quoted $40000 for the job. They sold this house and had another one built for over $200K (higher than average around here). I have less than $15K in this job.
This summer I am going to add another bay to the garage for my workshop. I should have less than $3K in that.
As an engineer, I spend most of my time doing design work (industrial refrigeratin equipment) which doesn't give me any opportunity to actually build anything. My work at home gives me a chance to have the satisfaction of designing AND building as well as saving a lot of money. I find it amazing that many of my colleagues in the office can't/won't do any of their own work on anything (house, car, etc). I guess I like to work with my hands and my mind at the same time, there is great satisfaction in that.
I'm a DIYer I've done it all except drill well and install septic. Guy with backhoe helped pull stumps, but I did most of the digging for the footings (sonotube foundation). I got help from brothers-in-law shingling roof. Learned from books and asking, long before I chanced on Breaktime. Actually Breaktime is a mixed blessing -- now I'm learning all the things I did wrong!
Did about 87%.
1. Purchased property presented it for subdivision for seller.
2. Had survey done started clearing and site work, including 650 feet of 1 1/4" copper water line and underground electric up a 30% grade, cut in driveway keep average grade to 10%+/-. Install septic system and tank. Site the house location for drive in basement to work with natural grades. Finish grading and anything else related to obtaining approvals and completion of site work. I did hire an operator to work part time with me to operate some of the equipment I borrowed as there are only so many things I could do at once.
3. Designed home and mechanical systems, obtained permits, ordered and specified materials.
4. Placed footings had sub pour foundation walls, framed with help from two friends, mason did chimney and fireplace, roofer did roof, foam installer did insulation. Plumber helped with rough-in, I did radiant floor heat, boiler install, ac install except purge lines and add freon. Electrician helped with rough-in. Someone else did tile work, I did hardwood floors and all other finish and trim work, made all the interior doors .
5. This is the second time I have almost done it all , the effort expended is not appreciated for the toll it takes on ones body. It is nice to have control on how I want things to be executed. I can't say anything gets done faster, it must be a hobby if I am not getting paid.
I will try to attach some early pictures of my project
Junkhound,
Well, I thought I was gonna DIY my entire house, but the day job got in the way and I'm subbing most of it. So far, I've done about half of everything - excavating, footings, foundation, electrical service, plumbing, floor deck framing, concrete work and timber frame. I milled about half the timbers myself and hired another local mill for the rest. I did all my own drawings and site clearing, and did ICF's for the basement by myself.
That's as far as I've gotten. I have a small crew working on the timber frame joinery, I'll rent a crane to put it up, and then we'll see. I plan on doing all my own finish work, flooring, cabinets and counters, and probably most of the electrical and plumbing rough-in. I have a roofing sub, an electrician and plumber for the final hookups, and a mason for the fireplace.
After the house is done and the wife calms down, I'm going to attempt a shop/office building totally DIY. Again, timber framed, on a slab, with a single bathroom and a subpanel from the house. I figure, I'll have learned enough from the house that I can do the shop alone or with a helper for the lifting and pulling.
Jon
Edited 3/3/2005 7:31 pm ET by Jon
Have you told us about your self?
"IMHO, the real big savings and knowledge building, esp for a 20 YO something, comes from the 100% path. Realize this is not legally possible in all locations unless one is willing to get multiple licenses."
Can we talk about that ?
For a twenty year old that would be unexperienced . I think he should hire a middle age do it all hourly to save the most money. Maybe that guys helper . Of course a 20 year old shgould be fighting interrest on a bank loan, so time would matter.
OK, Tim, since you asked.
Did some small scale building as a kid thru teen with relatives, cabin, roofs, etc. Grew up with all kinds of tools. Till we got gas heat in '55, used to do all the metal forging needed in the basement using the coal furnace for the forge. When about 10 YO, was able to find the galena chunks in the lump coal and roughly refine it for the lead, in the furnace also. Wonder lead poisoning didn't get us.
Pop had built houses with Grandpa 100% themselves during the depression.
Started my own house when 25 YO, spent time from 20 YO (when married) to 25 YO scrounging, stockpiled most plumbing fixtures, etc during that time.
bought property at 26 YO, needed 600 ft of road thru heavy Dfir put in
Drew plans and did all design over '71 Christmas vacation on mylar.
Bought old D2 cat for road on county right of way, deal was county got the money if you sold the logs, but you could use them with no fee or simply let them rot. Used 21 2 ft dia fir for beams in the house (note -do not strip bark in the fall do it inthe spring<G>
Dug foundation, did all the forms for full basement, did all the concrete pour, mixed probably 50 yards by hand for column, poured chimeny, septic tank, etc.
Did septic design and all construction myself.
DW and self did 100% of framing, DW melted kegs of tar over wood fire in 55 gal barrel while I pulled in 5 gal buckets to 2nd story roof for hot mop builtup roof (cheapest roof pre 1974 when a keg of tar was only 74 cents!)
DW pulled buckets of dirt out of well while i dug, vacuum cleaner on blower to get air to the bottom, later built a drill rig and drilled to 60 ft.
Did all carpet, all cabinets, made almost all furniture, DW made all the drapes, etc.
Put 10 stitches in leg myself with needle pushed thru with pliers when once slashed leg with axe.
Did 100% of elec. and plumbing, installed wood furnace made from parts, later installed heat pump.
2nd floor is 1500 sq ft 2x6 T&G fir, 7 YO son at the time nailed about 20 pounds of 16d all by himself with 16 oz hammer, he was really proud, did not have a nail gun at the time.
Moved in in '74. Built adjoining 4 car garage 2 years later, all 100%.
Worked full time at the aerospace company at the same time.
Built a 620 sq ft cabin for less than $500 complete (see FHB great moments, Nov, 1990) in 1980 for kicks, all 100%.
Have never hired any services at all except medical and dental or government mandated (like polution tests on the cars and building inspectors, etc.). (eg. DW cuts my hair and her own, etc.) DW had the kids in delivery room, not at home though.
Do 100% of all appliance repair and car/truck and dozer repair. Have fairly complete machine shop, small foundry and blacksmith shop, woodworking stuff naturally, etc.
Just before it was made illegal here in the '90s, shoveled/pumped out my septic tank onto the garden every few years, no maintenance on the septic needed in last 15 years,may have to hire a pumper in a few years or do something 'illegal'.
When my GGGGrandpa came from Saxony in the 1840s, he brought over an 800# anvil. He built a forge, sawmill, grist mill, founded a town (Venedy, IL), dug a coal mine (operated till 1964), etc. Recall my dad once hired a mechanic friend to replace a rear wheel bearing on the '52 mercury as pop didn't have a big enough puller/press.
Brother and pop built 3000 sq ft addition to brothers house 100%, brother built 4000 sq ft shop/office 100%. Whoops, think my brother hired the foundation poured?
is we a family of really cheap old rednecks or just frugal?
Edit cost comment: Built the 1970's 5300 sq ft house for under $15000 in 1974 dollars, including all appliances, carpet, etc. Pretty good return IMHO. Got a spreadsheet with the details I can post if you are interested in details.
Edited 3/3/2005 10:08 pm ET by JUNKHOUND
Just found out youve got to be a little older than me .
How did you learn it all?
No one needs any proof from you . You are the legend around here at this subject.
You have a versatle background . You mention a lot of trades really and have done some things most havent done . I dont really understand why you were so frugal, but its a bunch better than blowing money and not having any thing to look at . I was guilty of that for a number of years.
How did you learn it ? You mentioned several things I didnt think the family taught you. I dont take credit for much self teaching .
Tim Mooney
Edited 3/4/2005 7:43 am ET by TIMMOONEY52
How did you learn it all?
Pimarily by being not afraid to try, and to retry after any failure. Think the first engine I rebuilt in the 60s didn't run very long, etc. <G>, but tried again later.
Also, the time spent learning. Never cared much for 'entertainment' like pro sports or movies, haven't gone to one of those events for literally decades, so there was more time each week to try and learn something new. . Would prefer to read a book when a kid vs going to a pro game, but did play the games in HS. Also, after the kids were born they loved to learn along with me, sometimes still do. One of the 2YO grandson's favorite pastimes is having his own section of floor in one of the sheds to pound nails into.
Got an engineering degree in the 60s as a basis, took all type discipline courses possible besides EE major - thermodynamics, structures (very helpful in building), chem E, surveying, machinery design, etc. Took 23 sem credit hours every semester for 4 years and auditied what I could still handle.
Probably one of the big items was marrying somebody with the same upbringing and outlook - DW still does not know whether to be complimented or not by the fact one of the prime reasons I proposed (after only 2 weeks) is that she was the only girl ever met that was willing to work hard.
Work for the biggest aerospace company so for 40 years part of my paid job has been and is to advamce current technology, and to try to teach others. Advances to current technology requires knowing as much of existing and as broad base as possible facts. Giving a seminar at the Applied Power ELectronics Convention in Austin TX next week on Failure analysis of power electronics to try to pass on some "learnin'"
On thing cannot do (never tried to learn past Fortran anyway) is software. Bought the kids a 'trash 80' and CoCo in '79, instantly learned that I'd NEVER be able to program to compete with the 'kids'; at least 3 of the kids part of scout troop in the 70s and early 80s are multimillionairs off software.
Did more of everything than I'm proud of. I shouldn't be doing this I thought about 15 years .
Even took my own debris to the dump in my truck.
I mean I did "everything"!
Finally in my later years as my back started giving out and my hearing started going and my eyes started expiring I figured I did a real good job........to my body!
Yet.what I'd say to the yuggins' is to "do everything" for a bit so when you learn faster'n I did that knowing or having your head and your hands in everything helps t teach you how its done in real life....not just offa TV or outta books so when you hire a sub you know its getting done right....just keep workin it my brothers.
Be educating yourself but wear ear plugs and saftey googles...yeh right...lol
a...
The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..
On my remodel I've been doing as much as possible myself. I measured and drew the existing, then re-designed it in AutoCad LT. I did the calculations for the new beams. But the city wouldn't let me pull a permit without hiring an engineer.
I dragged a 12' piece of w8x15 into the crawl space, jacked and cribbed up to support a bearing wall under two stories, dug out for a new footing, formed and hand mixed it.
I carefully removed the antique tile from a 7 in 12 roof, demoed the termite damage down to the tops of the studs, and built it back up. I've got the copper pans cut and bent, and was planning to put them on when the weather got good.
I screwed up buying a complete set of windows, and have been re-working them with better hinges, weatherstripping, and paint.
I've done a lot of interior framing, plumbing, copper, ABS, and black pipe for gas, and electrical. Last weekend I totally wore myself out salvaging matching oak flooring from a demo job.
Still there's a hell of a lot left to do. And the owner of the 4 unit apartment next door just offered me $750k for the place as-is. He wants to gut it and turn it back into four units. So, I'm trying to decide what to do:
1. Take the money and run. Get out from under a s--tload of work. But it means not finishing what I started, and not having the place I thought for 6 years I'd spend the rest of my life in.
2. Pass on the money and keep on slogging along using nights, weekends, and vacation time probably until I have to retire.
I'll probably regret it either way.
-- J.S.
John: Aren't you in Burbank or Pasadena or such. $750 K isn't a lot for a house there is it?
In Hollywood, actually. True, $750k isn't much, but at this point what we have is a major fixer. It looks like we'll be staying, though. I talked it over with my wife, and her position is no way should we let go for under $1M.
-- J.S.
way too many times... not only house but I've built bars & nightclubs, shopping centers, and other stuff i shouldn't be talk'n about... I only do one about every few years... and everytime i swear never again...
my main problem is... I like to work, I like to think about what I'm going to build... I can pull 5yo drawings and they'll match a project that i finished last week... I have stacks of paper everywhere where I've drawn & redrawn everything i've ever built or will build... from my bobcat trailer to my house... not only that... I'll buy everything or parts for a project i might not start for 2 years...
pony