Client just installed a large Sony plasma tv with all the goodies, and is concerned about voltage spikes. Anyone have any recommendations about whole house surge protectors?
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell’em “Certainly, I can!” Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
Replies
You don't need a whole house surge protector for just the new TV, of course, but it's not a bad idea in general.
Probably one of the better choices in surge protection is Transtector. You can look at their website at http://www.transtector.com/, or give them a call, they have pretty good tech help.
Intermatic makes many models which are certified to meet specific national standards. They have a whole range of prices.
Some experts say it's a good idea to have a whole house surge supressor and a dedicated supressor for sensitive expensive equipment. When I built my new home I installed one. I thought it cheap insurance at $40.
All surge supressors depend on a good ground connection to send the surge to, so inspect the panel and ground rod and make sure the ground is properly done and secure.
We've got two, one old behind-the-meter unit that I believe is gas discharge, and a "newer" (probably 5 years old) in-the-panel unit.
The in-the-panel units are reasonably cheap and easy to install if you've got the spare slots in the panel. The behind-the-meter unit was installed by our electric co.
Can't say if they work or not. Have never had power-borne damage, though have had modem and LAN damage due to zaps from phone and cable lines.
In my opinion (as a EE), there's not a lot of difference between the various units (so long as you get something of decent quality) -- you can pay a lot more for a Monster or some other gold-plated thingie, but it won't do much better.
But note the plasma TV guy should be more concerned about his cable connection than the power line.
I did a _little_ web searching, and a couple of the pages suggested that whole house protectors are good for motorized appliances but offer minimal protection for electronics. Because of the location of the tv...on the mantle above the fireplace...a plug-in protector like you buy at the electronics store would be very difficult to install. There was 1/2 inch of clearance for the tv between the stone pilasters and the a-v guys had a wonderfully hard time getting it hung on the brackets...glad it wasn't my job.
They are in the country and have a satellite dish. Is there as much of a potential problem there as with hard cable?
My concern in this matter is that the HO has asked me to have my electrician install a surge protector, cuz the a-v guys say it's really needed, and neither the HO nor the a-v guys are any help. It's like having auditors or consultants check your business: "You're doing your job wrong and we're going to write you up. No, we can't tell you how to do it right, that's your job. But we know you're wrong". I coulod spend some money and have the electrician install a few gadgets, but I'd like to do it right.
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
You can surge protectors that replace the receptacle.
And yes the satelite is potentional source of problems. The dish needs to be properly grounded and a surge arrestor on the cable and likewise properly grounded.
I've had experience with several kinds. Gas discharge tends to be better at self-healing. The varistor ones more often self-destruct after a strike. Neither one is foolproof. A good idea, but a serious strike or even a close call induces currents a good distance away from the protector. Had many incidents where customers lost equipment even though protected with a whole-house unit. Ceiling fans, satellite boxes, appliances, computers.
The telephone and cable and TV antenna lines should likewise be protected. There are specific models made for telcom rather than power. The phone company has protectors on their lines, but their goal is to protect their equipment not your equipment. I've replaced a couple modular wiring panels that were damaged by lightning. Not always easy to find the damage either. Can get little carbon tracks on the circuit boards that cause intermittent problems and are very hard to see.
Local protection for computers is a must. Don't assume spikes just enter from the service panel. Inductive or capacitively coupled spikes can enter the system anywhere. It can take microseconds for a pulse to get to the panel and that's plenty long enough to cause damage. I don't trust the real cheap ($5) no-name outlet strips with surge protectors. I buy name-brand ones. Probably $15 and up is OK. The fancy $50 gold plated ones don't seem to work any better than the $15 ones.
When I used to set up radio communication sites, we would put in full protectors for the panals, as well as each piece of equipment.
Try looking up a company called "Polyphaser" (if their still in business.)
We used to buy protection equipment from them.
Also, they could send you to companies that made other specialty protectors.
Jeff
SQUARE-D makes a good line of whole house supressors from small to large models, with equipment insurance. I ended up having one installed due to the next door neighbor's hot tub causing surges on our line (both houses terminate at one location on the pole), and the local electric company saying "the surges are within acceptable levels". And I put a UPS on my PC, as even in the City, power goes out something happens on the other side of the city.
Joe
Renaissance Restorations
Victorian Home Restoration Services
http://www.renaissancerestorations.com
Can't get to the receptacle because of the tv...the tv fills the space above the fireplace, and the receptacle is recessed into the stone and blocked by the tv...very clean look, but impossible to get to with dismounting the tv.
Talked to the Transtector folks...very helpful...also a bit expensive, but it's not my money or my tv. Whole house protector that mounts next to the breaker panel, feeds off a 30A breaker...$850. Devices for the dish and phone are about $85 each. Plus installation of the new breaker by Sparky.
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
I bought a protector from Dell when I bought my computer. It protects the power, telephone, and cable connections to the computer.
Something else that needs to be said is that surge supressors can protect from a great many surges. But, if lightning strikes the satellite dish or the house, you're electronics are fried.
our power company does it for a small fee like $3 a month and they willl install a whole house protector on the pole. and guartee everything in the house
Intermatic makes a decent one that was around $60 locally, or $80 from Smarthome. Mounts on side of panel through 1/2" knockout and has LED which show whether the legs are hot.
I've gone to putting the TV/satellite/VCR's on a UPC. Keeps one from having to reset the clock or lose recording info with power outages. Nice second line of protection as well.
Personally, I'd ask two questions, here:
What did the AV guys use to protect the rest of the AV gear?
Why isn't the homeowner looking at this from a homeowner's insurance standpoint?
I ask this, because I have a CRT projector installed that had an original list price of $18K, and while its running through a saintly $200 Monster powerstrip for the benefit of Allstate, you can bet I file an $18K claim (or there abouts) to replace the $1500 I spent on the CRT projector. :)
The whole idea of a whole-house surge-supressor for a flat-panel alone is asinine if you the strike hits somewhere on the curcuit itself, or on a circuit that had an AV component directly connected to the flat-panel. I had lightning hit my phone line about five years back and it took out a server (computer), answering machine, and phone. That 'low-voltage' CAT5 wire fried, but not before sending a voltage spike to a bunch of sensitive equiment.
The AV people should have installed a centralized surgesuprssor and power conditioner (Monster AVS2000, HTPS7000, etc.), but I take it they must not have been all that good. You can get some feedback from 'AV' people on http://www.avsforum.com for this.
"The whole idea of a whole-house surge-supressor for a flat-panel alone is asinine if you the strike hits somewhere on the curcuit itself, or on a circuit that had an AV component directly connected to the flat-panel."
If you have a direct strike on the pannel then NO surge protector will take care of it and the fact that the pannel is "blown" might be the worst of your probplems. The fact that there is no wall to hold up the pannel, nor roof, might be of more importance.
But there are lots of surges from "nearby" (1/2 block away, a mile away) that come through the power lines that whole house surge protector will help agains. And there are enough electroncis around a house that it is worth it. Not only the obvious radio and TV, but microwaves, refigerators, stoves, furnaces.
"I ask this, because I have a CRT projector installed that had an original list price of $18K, and while its running through a saintly $200 Monster powerstrip for the benefit of Allstate, you can bet I file an $18K claim (or there abouts) to replace the $1500 I spent on the CRT projector. :)"
There is the deductable and the hassel. And if you check out the rates you will find that it pays to have a deductible of AT LEAST $500 and maybe in the $1000 to $2500 range.
And not insurance company will pay based on the "list price". They will either pay depreciated value (what you could get for it sold as used) or ACTUAL replacement cost.
Depreciated or actual cost in my position would actually benefit me. Replacement costs is about depreciated and that would ultimately be above what I paid. Still, the idea that you can solve all the problems at the point of power entry into the home is being naive. Ask how many homeowners with experiences of lightning strikes if their panel was the point of strike vs. some place inside their home.
A lightning bolt would have to go a long way to get to my breaker panel in the basement, but the main breaker out doors is just as open as the grounding rod that sits next to it, and the EMC's transfoormer 50' away.
But the vast majority of lightning damage incidents are due to a hit to the outside lines, not the house itself, and the surge is conducted through the panel (or through phone, antenna, or cable TV wiring). And these indirect hits are the ones that it's hard to get insurance to pay for, since there's no direct proof of lightning damage.
I don't know of anyone recommend surge protectors can solve ALL PROBLEMS.
I know for a fact that is does not cure dandruf.
So I guess the concensus is that protection at several levels is best. A whole house protector at the panel and then smaller strips/UPC at slect appliances. Some of the whole house and UPC's have additional connectors for phone and TV coax. I use an APC 500 that has surge protection for the DSL phone line as well. Cutler-Hammer makes a whole house with dual phoneline/coax connectors.
According to an EE friend of mine, the whole house panel should be mounted as close to the ground buss as possible and with no curve in the wire if possible. The picture in this months "This Old House" is misleading, where it shows the surge unit 3 ft below the panel.
Yeah, the in-the-panel units will tell you to mount the thing at the top of the panel, but on an existing panel that's often impractical. The shorter the wires and closer to the entry point of the lines the better, but you can't always achieve that.
Re: "I know for a fact that is does not cure dandruff. "
Your just not using it right. Most of those surge strips will cure dandruff if plugged into a non-GFI receptacle, turned on and brought into the shower with you. Ba - Bing.
Dandruff is no longer an issue.
Also works of acne, bad hair, loose teeth and really bad days. Pretty much takes care of everything.