Does anyone have experience with whole house water filters? I’ve got city water and the quality is fairly good. I’m not too fond of the taste, though, and during my kitchen remodelling, I’d like to put in a water filter for both the kitchen faucet and the refrigerator icemaker.
I was thinking of putting the filter in the basement, in line and before the refrigerator and faucet. Seems like it would give me easy access and wouldn’t take up space under the sink.
I’ve seen these priced from $50 to $1000. I’ve got to imagine that it’s mostly a matter of taste.
I’d appreciate any advice people have to offer.
Replies
You need to have the water tested to find out what needs to be filtered out. Some problems are far easier to rectify than others.
Second what Tom said. It's cheap and you'll know. You can waste a lot of money on filters that don't work so finding out what is in it makes sense.
I ran a R.O. unit for years and found out it didn't filter out salts. My wife is on a low sodium diet. Also, salt in water tastes bad imo.
Edited 8/27/2007 2:56 pm ET by popawheelie
Once or twice a year the city will provides a report on quality of your water. It might have been include in the bill and just thrown away.
Call the water department and get a copy of it.
In most cases you will find that most of the items are well within specs.
Here the different types of "filters".
The first is sediment. Takes care of grit and dirt in the water. Typically not needed on most city water. Some wells need them.
Next is the activated charcoal Taste and Oder filters. Basically that is all they do, remove chorine and other tastes.
"Supper" activated charcoal filters. They also remove things like lead, a parasite whose name I forgot, and chemcial compounds from ag runoff (again check your city's report).
The next step is RO (reverse osmoses) systems.
Now I have good water (all of the water reports on problems checmicals where almost zero) which did not have a "bad" taste. But I got a new refigerator with a filter.
I really noticed the "fresh" taste of the water out of the refigerator. The filter was of the supper activated charcoal type and cost about $40 every 6 months.
Since I only needed basic taste and order filtering I got an under the counter system with such a filter and it feeds the refigerator and an instant hot water dispenser.
I got a Whirlpool from Lowes. It uses standard cartridge and they are available from GE, Culigan, Pure, etc. That kind of system runs about $40-50 and the cartridge is good for 5000 gals or 6 months and run $9.
The supper cartridges run about 2-3 times that amount and often good for smaller amount of water.
Now this is basic screw on type of filter. When you change it has a valve to shut off the water. Then you unscrew the case and have have a cartridge full of water that you have to dump and drain out all of the water.
From there you move "up" to bayonet cartridges that you just give 1/4 turn and toss and replace with a new one.
But they are much more expensive and many are only good for 3 months and often come with a separate dispensor valve for the counter top, etc.
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Not sure what your city water report is based on but ours has the disclaimer "as tested at the water plant outlet". In other words, before it goes thru the miles of aging pipes.
In the past I have seen reports on residual chorline (at end of lines) and tests for lead at individual taps.Maybe they have found that those tests are no needed..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Lead tests are only needed if there is lead in the pipes. Many communities still have some lead pipe or lead-sealed pipe in use, but many more don't. Residual chlorine is highly variable, depending on the flow through the branch in question. Basically, the intent is to have the chlorine level high enough on exit from the plant to assure there is SOME chlorine left at the end point. This usually is only a problem in new neighborhoods or old ones with lots of abandoned houses -- situations where the pipes are oversized for the flow rate.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
At the time they first started testing for lead there was testing in houses to see how much was added by solder and old fixtures..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Yeah, there's always the contribution from inside the house. But, except in cities with acid water or in homes with lead pipe, the amount of lead is negligible after the first year or so. (And, of course, lead solder is no longer legal for potable water pipes, so new homes are pretty safe too.) The water treatment salesmen will try to scare you by taking a sample from an unused tap, since often a little lead will leach out of brass fixtures, but any such lead is gone after the water has run for a second or two.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
I have installed a number of these systems like Bryan describes in post # 8
I do three ball valves w/ a bypass loop so you can still use your supply if there is a problem or blockage in filters or so you lose nothing while changing filters
also i put pressure gauges on both sides of filters - if all is clean there is no change in pressure
That is what they know NOW.But in the early days of regular testing by the water districts sampling in residence was done to see if there was a problem with lead and now big it was.As you said it now found not to be a signnficant problem..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
If you filter all the water in the house for taste/odor it will be very expensive -- the cartridges aren't cheap.
You can install a simple whole-house sediment filter, either one that uses inexpensive filter media (paper or wound filament) or one that uses centrifugal force and no medium. These run probably $30-100 for the media filter, maybe up to $1K for a centrifugal one. (If you get a media filter, get the large size, about 6 inches in diameter. Lower "back pressure" and longer life for the cartridges.)
There are cartridges available for the whole house units that contain activated charcoal, etc, and improve water taste/odor a bit, but you go from spending $3-10 for a filter to spending $50-100, and they need to be replaced every few months.
And of course you can throw about $10K at a "water quality expert" to get a fancy whole-house water treatment system (filter/softener/acid neutralizer/whatever), or a bit less for a small reverse osmosis system.
Alternatively, you can install an "under sink" cartridge filter in the line feeding just the sink and fridge. (The basement is under the sink, after all.) However, if you use this for all sink cold water the cartridges will wear out fast and the flow will be less than ideal. Better to install a filtered water faucet on the sink, separate from the regular faucet.
Do be aware that, in addition to the standard units you see at home centers, there are a variety of water filters available for commercial installation. In particular, many sold for commercial ice machines may be about the size you'd like. No idea as to the price, though.
That's great info, especially the details from Bill and Dan. I've got the local water quality report from the county. It says that there aren't anything near dangerous levels of contaminants. I don't need to filter out sediment, just filter out bad tastes.I didn't think about the pressure drop created by an in-line filter if I put it in line with the cold water supply for the refrigerator and the sink. Maybe more of a reason to put in two separate filters. I'm not too keen on the idea of a faucet just for filtered water. I don't like the look that it will have with the traditional, cleaner style of the kitchen. I was hoping to filter all the cold water to the sink.Any other recommendations on brand names or sources?
The water quality reports from the water company I have seen measure the water coming out of the PLANT, not out of YOUR faucet. There can be a lot going on between the filtration plant and your faucet.So if you can, get YOUR water tested.As for filters, I use a two stage whole house filter from American Plumbing. cost is about $260. Double bell housing using paper (or wound) cartridge on one side and charcoal on the other. A set of replacement filters runs about $100, and the cartridges last about 85,000 gallons.I originally added one at our previous house to get grit out of the water. I found it was chewing up the washers and valve seats faster than I could replace faucets.The taste improvement was a welcome addition.
I don't want to sound like a conspiracy nut job. But, the county, city, or town water plant makes sure the water they send down the pipe meets the standards they have imposed on them . They sell people water. I'm not saying they are up to something. They meet those standards. But It's my opinion that the standards are pretty low. I think they were set low a long time ago when people put up with more. It's also a political thing because if the standard was higher they would have to spend LOTS more on treatment. It would slow down growth a lot in certain areas.
The water might not make most people sick but you might have to get used to it. You build up resistance or whatever. People down in Mexico drink the water and are fine.
But, I like drinking water that tastes great and is really good for me. I don't want guests to visit and have problems. I don't want to have to get used to it.
We were on a well in Kansas and I tried to get it right but it was hard because everyone there didn't see a problem. They were used to it and didn't want to think about it.
I was in Indianapolis for a few weeks this summer and the water smelled heavily of chlorine. The owner of this nice expensive house had a carbon filter at the kitchen sink that they changed as required. But the water tasted bad imo. Kind of salty. They don't know and I didn't say anything. But I did buy water while there.
"They sell people water."
Gross! Wouldn't bottled water, tap water, even well water be better? And people pay money for it?
> People down in Mexico drink the water and are fine. Untrue. They don't drink the water, at least in many areas. There are bottled water vendors on just about every block.In the US municipal water is generally quite safe. There are relatively strict standards, and, in addition, no administrator wants to have the community poisoned on his watch.But there are many variables with regard to taste. Often water has high levels of iron, giving it a bitter taste, or, relatively speaking, high levels of sulfur, giving it a range of bad tastes. Cities that draw from surface water sometimes have to contend with tannin in the water, making the water bitter and stinky both.In all of these cases it's possible to improve the taste of the water (and, in fact, the utilities often do to a considerable extent), but it's wasteful to go overboard treating water that will be mostly used to flush toilets and wash cars, not for drinking.You're certainly entitled to drink bottled water if you want. But I'd not be afraid to drink the water from any sizeable municipality in the US (even though the taste might bother me).
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
My point was that people get used to water that isn't that good. Not necessarily about Mexico. You get used to it. Someone who has been drinking water from a certain area doesn't even know it tastes bad. That's the point I was making. I also think that if you are used to it won't give you problems but someone from another area might have some.
From personal experience I've found water to taste bad in certain municipalities. I know they have to meet certain standards but those standards are JUST met because of cost. I personally won't drink that water.
I'm not slamming American water. It's there job to meet those standards and no more. why would they go beyond the standard? They wouldn't. A lot of federal standards aren't very high. Does that mean that as an individual you can't do better? I can do better so I do.
I'm not afraid to drink the water, but I won't. I can do better. And no I don't drink bottled water as a rule. When I was visiting Indianapolis I bought bottled water because I was there for a short period. The water was high in chlorine and after going through the filter it still tasted bad. The owner of the house is a prof at a science university and he drinks bad tasting water. He considers himself a gormound. People will eat/drink just about anything if you slowly get them used to it.
But "tastes bad" is like accents or food. Bland "Midwestern" water might not have any objectionable taste or odor to you but would indeed taste bland to many other people.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
(And yes, gourmands WILL generally eat/drink anything.)
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
It's no problem Dan. I should have added a few smiley faces to my posts. I was trying to make a point with my posts, but alas, I have woefully inadequate writing skills.
Edited 9/1/2007 4:33 pm ET by popawheelie
We use a charcoal whole-house filter at our lake cabin, where we have an 120' deep well. Prior to installing a filter, the water was "yucky" ( technical term), virtually undrinkable and visually gross, although the well diggers said it tested out "fine". I presumed that meant it wasn't unhealthy to drink. However, it gave several family members "intestinal distress". We've never had the water tested, but it smelled of sulfur, so we assumed that was part of the problem. The water is also so high in iron, causing washed clothes to turn an orangy hue over time. All our neighbors on the same aquifer brought water from home, but we installed the whole-house filter. We also have undersink filters in the bathroom and kitchen on the cold water lines. The whole house filter changes the water so that it's very usable in the kitchen for cooking - no intestinal distress or tummy aches! The undersink filters make the water drinkable. The total cost of the 3 filters was under $100, and the costs to change the filters yearly is around $80. In contrast, two of the neighbors now pay for Culligan water filters to be changed monthly, at a cost of $60 per month. I am amazed at how efficient these very cheap filters are! Good luck!
Make sure you apply some plumbers grease to the threads of any screw on filter holders, otherwise they will lock up with mineral deposits.
Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Oh, good Lord, no. But I can give him two dollars and an assault rifle.
And make sure the filter's installed in a location where a little splashed water won't hurt anything -- it's virtually impossible to change the things without spilling some water.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
Yep, that reminds me:
Make sure the filter had enough clearance for you to at least get 1/4 turn with a wrench 16" long... on every fitting. Put a ball valve upstream and downstream of the filterRebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Oh, good Lord, no. But I can give him two dollars and an assault rifle.
And a good thing to do, while installing the filter (if it's at a reasonably low point in the plumbing system) is to add a tee and a drain valve. If you place it between the two ball valves for the filter it lets you let pressure off the filter, plus it can be used when draining down the system for other reasons.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
"Make sure you apply some plumbers grease to the threads of any screw on filter holders, otherwise they will lock up with mineral deposits."Where Do you find plumbers grease, is it in the "plumbers crack"?Martin
Ewww! That's gross!
No, Plumbers grease is pulled directly from the nose and applied with the fingertip.Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Oh, good Lord, no. But I can give him two dollars and an assault rifle.
We run a whole house filter. Ours is activated charcoal to remove chlorine. Our city water is really very good, having been voted one of the country's best tasting. But we don't want to drink the chlorine. We went to whole house because the guy at the water store says a body can absorb as much chlorine by taking a shower as drinking a bunch. I didn't check that out, but at least a portion must be true..... seems likely. Also, my wife is an avid gardener so having the water clean for her plants is a good thing. We don't have any kids, its just the two of us. We use two filters a year.... about $50 a pop. It's money well spent as far as we're concerned. There is a pressure drop to reckon with but nothing that causes us any grief.
I hate to tell you this, but that activated charcol filter is saturated with chlorine in about three days.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
"the guy at the water store says a body can absorb as much chlorine by taking a shower as drinking a bunch,"
That's not exactly the quality of reference I'd use to make health and physiological decisions. But he got you to buy something, didn't he?
Have you checked with your local water co to see of they will test your water. Local co here will test for free. I just had mine done and they give a very thorough report.
I also just installed a pyrolox iron filter at my other home and it did wonders for the taste. I'll need to get the water tested again but it should have taken care of my extremely high iron and manganese levels. Endedup buying form an online company that was very helpful and their customer service and tech support has been excellent.
Tom, got a name?Thanks.
http://www.abundantflowwater.com/
I ordered my system on a thursday and it was on site in NH by monday night. Still not sure how they got it there that fast. Installation instructions were excellent. I had a problem with the fleck 7000 filter head and they are shipping a new one out to replace it. They have been abosolutely great to deal with.
Edited 8/31/2007 2:56 pm ET by TomW
This is something that, IMO, you can do far better yourself .... and for a lot less ... than a store-bought system.
Simply put, the profit margins, especially in the heavily marketed water filter systems, are outrageous. It's no coincidence that the film "Matchstick Men" had the main characters (con men) selling water filters.
Let me start by explaining just what each part of the system can accomplish. Then I will show you how to DIY.
Water can have maybe four things in it that can be of concern to you. Even so, the vast majority of US "city water" is already plenty clean, safe, and reliable. The things that might contaminate the water are dirt, germs, and chemicals. Your primary filtering methods are mechanical and chemical.
"Mechanical" filtering is simply passing water through something that screens out stuff. These filters are available in various grades, to remove particles of differing size. Most systems have two mechanical filters; the first screens out large stuff (dirt scale, etc) and the second has pores so small that it screens out all germs and bacteria (but not viruses).
"Chemical" filtering almost always involved passing the water through an activated charcoal element. Activated charcoal does a superb job of trapping many of the things that make water smell or taste bad. What it will NOT remove are heavy metals (lead, arsenic, etc.)
Now, your local box store has available filter housings for less than $20. These housings use standard filter cartridges, and can be used with ordinary plumbing fittings. One of the major sources of profit for the fancy systems is their use of non-standard filters; you have to go to them for the refill. Pressure gages before, and after, the filters will tell you when the filters are becoming plugged.
Now .. for the specialty filtering requirements:
Viruses can be destroyed by passing the pre-filtered water past a very strong UV light. There are also some charcoal elements made that have iodine in them, which will kill the viruses.
Heavy metals are removed either by 'reverse osmosis' - a method I prefer not to get into - or by passing the water through a "de-ionizing' element. These elements have various minerals within, that react with, and remove, the heavy metals. They are expensive, and limited in the flow they can handle.
Plumbing the filters can be as simple, or complex, as you like. At the minimum, I suggest shut off valves and pressure gages at both the 'in' and the 'out.' Filters need to be located where they are accessible, and will not freeze. Quite often, the cost of the plumbing fittings will far exceed the cost of the filters themselves.
I'm not one who subscribes to the conspiracy theory. I respect those of you who do, though... I drink tap water and no one in the house has keeled over yet. I looked at my county's water report and I can't make much sense of it, other than their levels are well below the government standards, for whatever good that is. I'm in a 70 year old house, and there are far more things in this place that will slowly kill me than a few minerals or chemicals. Like the asbestos in the flooring I'm taking up in the kitchen...I'm just thinking about flavor, to tell the truth. We use a Brita water pitcher and the water definitely tastes "sweeter" than that from the tap. Although our tap water doesn't taste that bad, the filtering does help.So out of all this discussion, I'm kinda leaning towards getting a single-stage housing and a carbon filter. Great idea about the bypass and shutoff valves too! I wouldn't have thought of that.Thanks for the link, Tom. Those appear to be some good people.
Edited 8/31/2007 8:49 pm ET by KenL