such a problem? I don’t have a lot of customer issues but it seems most of the time when I do it is another business person.
Owner of a local fire restoration and cleaning company and I meet at a local home show and talk. She says she can get me plenty of business. See her a month later at another home show. We talk and she says the same stuff.
A month or so later she calls and wants me to quote some work for a client, calls the day before the appointment and says the insurance agent put a hold on it. I say no problem, it happens. She says she needs some work done on her husbands family home, would I be interested? We agree to meet.
I look and listen to their big plans and go home and quote 25k in work. She calls a few weeks later and says she wants to do $1800 of it right away, she will send me the deposit will I please drop off my agreement for her to sign and send me. I say I have a time slot in 3 weeks she says great. I order $525 worth of windows based on this conversation.
I hear nothing for 5 weeks. No check. No agreement. Nothing. Except the windows I now own.
She calls. Sorry, dad sick, mom sick, business killing me etc. etc. Check is coming and agreement. I say I have time the week before Thanksgiving. She says ok. I get the check and the agreement.
A week before Thanksgiving I call to get half up front etc. She calls me back a week later. Are you really busy and I answer yes but I committed and will see it through. Well we are a little slow can you hold off? I am so busy I am grateful but also annoyed that she waited till the day before to call back. But ok.
We book for this week. I call last Monday. Leave a message. (her work number has an answering machine on most of the time that says “we are busy right now please call back later”) I say I need the $800 check and access code to the property by Friday. She calls today and says “we have a little cash flow issue can we start it next Monday?”
I tell her no I think we need to not do this because we seem to not be communicating well. She says but what do you mean? I relate how this is gone and say that it is important for me to have reliable work booked in advance in order to keep me and my men busy and that she of all people should understand that. She says “but you only called me last week”. She says she can’t believe it and she just has had a rough time. I tell her to send me the balance for the windows and I will deliver them. She say sure, no problem. (hahahahahahah, like that will happen) I said it just to keep the deposit so I don’t lose everything.
For Sale……Pre made glass block windows. DanT
Replies
Dan, now that is some story. Please, if you two talk again...........come back here and post. This is sort of like a "serial" movie.
thanks.
A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Sounds like fun Dan. I just couldn't do what you do. Maybe I could, but it sure doesn't sound like fun when it goes like that. I guess we all have our problems though.
So what do you do now? Does that deposit cover the $525 in windows? Even if it does, I guess you've lost time as well. Think she'll get around to getting serious when she figures out that you're not playing around? Ever consider having all specialty ordered non-returnable items paid for up front? Man, that would burn my azz.
Like you're sitting around all day waiting for her to call with nothing better to do. Gotta wonder what goes on in people's heads sometimes. I'd be embarassed.
Nah, it doesn't cover the windows and I doubt I will ever see the money. I should have waited for the signed contract but needed to get them ordered to meet the opening and she seemed ready to go so I did it. Foolish move.
If she ponies up the money I will deliver the windows as I said I would to her business. If not I will see if they will fit my house or my brothers and if not I imagine I will break them into pieces and drop them off.................in her parking lot. DanT
Something like this has happened to just about everyone.
I recently caused major damage to my schedule by believing someone who committed verbally and in writing to a large project. I spent quite a bit of pre-con time with him and passed on a couple of other good prospects. He finally decided he couldn't afford the project and bailed. I've never seen a nickel for the many, many hours of time I spent defining his project, troubleshooting the plans, lining up subs, etc. He seemed very sincere right up until the end, when he walked.
Of course it was entirely my fault. I like to trust people.
I have two contracts in my computer--one for small jobs, one for large--and it only takes a little bit of word processing to spit one out for someone's signature. My New Year's resolution is to limit what I do for people to a few hours. If you want more than that, I have a contract you can sign, and here's who you make the check out to. People who are going to hire you will generally do so when given a contract to sign. Those who won't sign are generally not worth spending more time with.
To me, whether or not someone is flaky does not seem related to whether or not they're in business.
dave... interesting......
i'd been in that situation so many times that i finally decided NO MORE FREE WORK..
now, development time like that is paid for or i just don't do it...
i'd often had over 100 hours invested before they just pulled the plug and decided to take a completely different course..
one even had all of my time .. then sold the house and hired someone else to build their new house
i wrote up a little contract for Proposals...
now.. they are invested in the potential project... and it's harder for them to walk away..
you know.. i can think of at least two clients that wouldn't give me a fee for a Proposal.... but they did waltz some other poor soul around for months.... then changed their mind and sold the property.....it was very hard for me to stick to my guns, look them in the eye.. and say " this is how we do business"
always, always, always.... spend their money .. not yours.. no matter what.. it's not your house... it's theirs.. it's their investment ... not ours..
all we devote to it is TIME, and we can never get that backMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Sometimes you just want to trust people, not make such a big deal of everything. Bad idea.
When we first met, I gave the guy a fairly accurate ballpark number. He did not flinch. I gave him my speech about how I had not reviewed the plans in excruciating detail, just enough (2 hours) to throw together something within 10%. No finishes selected, no fixtures, no appliances, nothing like that, just simple plan and elevations.
Then I gave my speech about how I cannot spend hours and hours working up a project scope and budget only to have the project evaporate on me. No problem, he said, I understand. At the conclusion of that meeting I give him my references.
A week later he says I have checked your references and you have the job. In fact I have the email in which he writes just that. So, I say, let's get everything chosen and defined so that I can give you a contract price.
Then come the expensive choices and the things they want to add to the project. As I'm reading and re-reading the plans and visiting the site (it's a remodel) I find the errors in the drawings and let them know that we need a new foundation plan and floor framing plan, with new stamps that I can show the inspector.
At this point I come up with my final number, and it's about 10% higher than my ballpark. Personally, I'm quite pleased with myself because I did not assume the $15/SF recycled flooring they chose, or the wash-my-butt-for-me Toto toilet seat thingy, or the $4000 range.
At this point he says, I gotta get a price from someone else, this is too much.
My mistake, of course, is not getting an hourly rate to put the thing together. Won't happen again, I promise.
Plans just came in for a custom home that pencils out at $600,000. I am the second guy in the mix on this, the first is too expensive. Plans are vague. It took 8 hours to arrive at that $600K figure. Any additional time is gonna cost, or they can find someone else who will bid plans without an electrical plan, fixture schedules, trim details, room finish schedules, kitchen and bath elevations, etc. I don't need the exercise.
I am sitting on the other side of the fence- we are halfway through the design phase of a home we hope to build in 2006. Our architect has a builder he works with and they spent a long lunch (probably billed the time to me, that's ok) ballparking preliminary costs. I suspect the builder spent another 3-6 hours on his own coming up with the numbers. So far, good for me. If this builder were to be the GC I would gladly pay him for a detailed proposal, and we may do this. If I choose to GC the project should I expect to pay a framer for his bid? How about concrete? Electrical? Where do you guys draw the line?
Doug
You probably shouldn't expect to pay for bids from subs, but you might expect some difficulty lining up the ones you really want, and/or getting good service from them. Most subs get most of their work from their GCs, and that's who they concentrate on taking care of.
Most subs can price your job quickly. Exceptions might be guys like the plumber or electrician--they need to price all your fixtures for you, which means creating fixture schedules and facing them off.
As a GC pricing your house, I could easily spend 80 hours. Your plans probably do not have all the details needed, so first I will spend time with you identifying everything you have to identify for me. Then I need anywhere from 8-15 complete plan sets so that I can distribute them to the subs I want to use. Then I need to read their proposals, find out where the holes are, and fill those. If I am using in-house labor, I need to estimate all of that. If I am supply any material then I need to create takeoffs and shop those to my vendors. It's making me tired just thinking about how much time it takes.
The best thing you can do for yourself is to present very complete plans with complete finish and fixture schedules, detail drawings as needed, engineering and mechanical pages, etc. etc. Have your stuff together and people will be happier to work for you, in spite of the fact that you do not represent repeat business.
If you manage your project poorly you can expect entropy, as guys avoid coming to your job and answering your calls.
My M.O. when dealing with my subs is this: if I get the job, you get the job. Or better yet... I already have the job and you do too. I very rarely put something out to two subs to bid. It reduces their willingness to deal with me. If I was building ten homes per year I would probably do more shopping, but maybe not. Anyway, where I am there are few good subs and I know who I want to use and usually what they are going to charge too. No point in shopping... I put my effort into getting on their schedules and keeping up with the insurance certs.
"Where do you guys draw the line?"
My question to you would be where do you draw the line at your work? Do you work for free frequently or just once in awhile? In my mind if you get a proposal that takes more than an hour you should have to pay for the time. Doesn't happen but it should.
Your doctor or mechanic doesn't give free estimates. They charge for their time. This is an argument that can go on for ever but the fact is you could make more money (that is why we are in business) and charge less if you could simply get paid for what you do and the hours you work. DanT
Actually I own a small manufacturing company (25 employees) and much of my work is quoting new work. I usually start out with a ballpark to find out if the potential customer and I are on the same plane . Final quotes can take two days or more depending on th project. I don't expect to get paid for this because this part of my job function and I don't need to be out on the job site as you might need to be.
As a future client my worries are getting reliable and competent contractors. A recommendation and good vibes mean a lot to me. I will pay more for the peace of mind of knowing (hoping) I am working with the right people.
Contracts sound like a good idea for both parties but god forbid anyone wants to go to court- my guess is if the less than 10k is involved for either party it will hardly be worth the time and expense.
Doug
Doug,
Please, with all due respect; if you are completely committed to GC'ing your own home, take a sabbatical from work to do it. It is the only way that you can properly administer this type of work.
Ask yourself how well you could fulfill your current full time responsibilities at your job with part time hours.
If you attempt to GC your house on a part time basis, you will end up with a mess, I almost completely gaurantee it.
Hire that builder. Work with him. Maybe cut a few luxury things if you need to, or add to the budget somehow. You get a GOOD GC you will not be sorry. You can visit the job at your liesure for and hour or so every day or two and thing will be just fine. You can stay at your job well focused on what it is that you do to earn a good salary to pay someone else to create your dream.
Uninitiated GCing is not the romantic occupation that some may have you believe it is. Trust me.
Good luck with your new home.
Eric
[email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
Edited 12/21/2005 6:03 pm ET by EricPaulson
I appreciate the advice and I strongly suspect I will not be the GC, for the reasons you and others have mentioned. The prospect of calling contractors to find out if they will show up. checking their work etc. is daunting and I doubt if I would do it well.
We do plan on putting off much of the finish work- trim etc that I will do myself over time.
No offense to any of you but I have been delaying designing and building this house for about four years, hoping that building starts would slow down and I would get better prices and better service from hungrier bidders. There were other reasons for the delay as well, but I am running out of excuses and DW is getting impatient.
I am encouraged by the obvious integrity and pride in their work that many of the contributors to Breaktime appear to have- now if I can just hook up with people like you...
Doug
Good of you to reply Doug; and a good decision as well I believe.
Often, local building depts or real estate agents can be good sources of information when tracking down that elusive "good" GC.
Architects and engineers, local lumber yards as well.
Drive around a lot on w/e's looking for in construction homes till you find one you like with good signage and a nice neat jobsite. Those are excellent indicators of a good GC.
(S)He's out there, just waiting to meet you. He's looking for a good client every bit as much as you are looking for him. Do your due diligence and you will meet.
Good luck.
Eric[email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
Thanks for the advice.
Merry Christmas.
doug
Doug,
Prices of material may flucuate up and down according to supply and demands on them , but theres two more subjects you should consider.
1. Inflation has continued to raise values . Check you area . The minimum seems to be 3 percent a year which is the statement here . My rentals and other properties have held to that rule , so in 4 years they would appraise at 12 percent more . That has been the case on them with reapraisals Ive had done . So, youve lost at least 12 percent but maybe more.
2. Wages over the country have continued to climb. Subs have demanded more money and the market has responded with the additional . Over history its been the case that labor doesnt as a rule decline. For an area Im versed in , drywall labor prices are up 100 percent over a 10 year period. in this area which isnt a booming area at all.
3. which I thought of and I deal in buying properties also in raw land , has also climbed . If you have bought the land already you may have dodged that escalation. That has raied in value too at least 3 percent per year here.
Interrest rates are also climbing .
Tim
Bought the land in 2000, that is a home run, I think it has almost doubled since then.
Also on the plus side, the home I own now has appreciated another $150k in the last couple of years, so waiting isn't all bad.
Had a thousand board feet of pine rough milled, its drying in the barn we built two years ago and by the time I build I am hoping it will be dry so I can make all my interior trim out of it, also some cherry which will be my kitchen countertops.
So far it has been fun and everything has been done out of pocket without digging into my cash. Lot's of sweat equity- clearing the site, burying the power lines, building the barn. If I can convince my wife, we will build an 800 sf workshop near the house site this year, house next year.
New subject- anyone planning on going to the Homebuilder show in Orlando next month? Is it worth the trip for a home owner?
Thanks again for all the advice.
Doug
"an 800 sf workshop near the house site this year, house next year"If that's the case, I'll build your house, as long as I can get there from home without using a boat or a plane.
I just got the permit to build my shop. No further remodeling of the house is getting done until the shop is built. I'm not even changing a light bulb. Working without any sort of indoor workspace is challenging. Your GC will be very happy if he can use the shop space as staging for the house.
My 2 cents worth. I bid jobs, design jobs, all the time, knowing the clint will go out for bid but hope they will consider what I've done. I also bid jobs that consultants design with many errors but they cover their a-- with the statement "that the final design must meet local codes and they are NOT held responsible". This is the world of steel storage equipment,material handling equipment. Racks like you see in HD, lowes and the like but on a much larger scale. I've work hours and days on bidding projects and lost with no sure thing.
That being said, here's were it gets interesting for u GC's and subs. Bought ground in 1995, working toward building a 2nd home @ Deep Creek Lake, project was in planning stage for years be. The one GC just happen to be, one of the principals in the plan, wife and I meet with him on site, this guys is NOT cheap but very good, discussed our plans with him. Told him it was to be a Timber Frame, the company cutting the frame would put it up, he tells us that we should stick build that we don't know what were doing. WRONG. also we told him we didn't want block but precast basement again this guys goes off. Says then "this is his mountain and he's built 3/4 quarters of the home here" Needless to say it goes down hill from there. Told the guy he could kiss my --- and he would not see one $ of our money. All the while the Timber Framer was listening to this. His comment to me "I'm surprised you didn't kill him". Now it gets interesting, hire local contractor to do work with understanding that Tframer puts up frame, local guy closes it with SIP panels and works on inside. This guy misses deadlines and sometimes they just don't show up.
I have a crew that finishes a job early by 3 days were coming from NJ and call GC to say I've got 6 men, N/C to him lets get windows in. the windows have been sitting there couple weeks, will help his crew, set the windows in 3 days with both crews. Some are 6'x 8'. Skylites are also there we did not put them in. Sparky, his guy was a royal pain and was behind, finally told him talk less and get his work done. I'm not into babysitting him. Tile guy would show up for 2-3 hours and leave, sent him packing, bought tile saw and did work myself on weekends. GC's mason doesn't put in footer big enough and fireplace pulling away from house. Lawsuit. Its winter and skylites not in calling GC to get it done, finally sends 2 guys up, their bitching cause on roof with snow, told them see Danny those skylites had been ther since August. Story goes on and on and on.
I look at it this way "you make your own bed so now you must sleep in it" I've been stuck on projects for big $$$, and some of us can DO multi-tasking only because we trusted others to do what they were supossed to and failed. My motto now is you get paid when work is done , up front mony or start up $ is no problem but get it done. Then you'll get paid. Sorry this is soooo long but could right a book about this. You want work go to Deep Creek Lake, Oakland MD. There building like crazy and not small 250k houses but 500 plus places. But watch out for the good old boys.
Rackman,Could you do us all a favor and break up your posts by hitting return more often?The long sea of words is very difficult to take in.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Willdo.
winchester.... your waiting has not been paying dividends...
i'm amazed at the inflation in materials....
copper ( electrical ) steel (everything )... concrete..
gypsum... plywood.............. unbelievable
and the legitimate builders and subs you want to deal with are incuring large increases in insurance coverage tooMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I am an excavation contractor and I have nothing but horror stories to share about homeowners acting as GC's. Where to start...
Ill start with the guy who cant get his house finished. They surveyed the property wrong and it would appear the grade stakes were set at random. We excavated as instructed and now that the foundation is poured it would appear that this house is almost 3' higher than any of the neighbors homes. So now we need 3' of dirt all the way around the house. This is a big house and that is a lot of dirt. He is having runoff problems as a result of this and the neighbors are pissed. The concrete sub wont show up because he has other jobs for regular customers. When he did show up he put the sidewalk over the top of my water meter pit. When the foundation sub was there no one told him to put in a brick ledge so steel had to be bolted all the way around the house for the brick to set on. Poor placement of the home on the property required additional trees to be removed. Because the lot is too small for the house their is not enough room to route the water lines and the sewer lines in a sane manner underground so we had to take the water in off the street and run it around to the back of the home and core a new hole in the foundation diagonally to gain access. The gas and electrical utilites were scheduled improperly and they cut both my water and sewer line when they did their work. My original price was $17,000. As of today my price is $31,000.
On second thought one horror story is enough. Very few contractors can manage projects well, that is why they have such a high failure rate. I always wonder what makes a homeowner think that they can do a better job.
Justin Tischer
Agreed.
I've spent more than a year and a half GC' ing my partly done/partly torn up house. Not the way to go. Better to be there each day, full steam ahead. And a good GC means you'll only need to refer to one person for the entire scope of work.
>I order $525 worth of windows based on this conversation.
Why would you order $525 of anything without a contract and a check?
Any more, I won't do a bit of work without their commitment in the form of a signature and check. Can't think of anyone's deadline which will make me commit my money on their behalf when they've offered up no legal consideration.
"Why would you order $525 of anything without a contract and a check?
Any more, I won't do a bit of work without their commitment in the form of a signature and check. Can't think of anyone's deadline which will make me commit my money on their behalf when they've offered up no legal consideration."
Yes it was a hasty move trying to fill a hole in my schedule and trying to make something happen for someone. I foolish move. But after your ordeal with your dirt guy you can see nothing is fool proof. A cheap lesson at $375.00. DanT
It's disappointing, though, isn't it? That's what hurts most. You like to be reliable, to keep your word. You like to think other people have similar values. You want to give them the benefit of the doubt until they prove you wrong. Then they prove you wrong.
Don't let it get you down, man. She's showing her character. It's no reflection on you. You held up your end, maybe erring on the side of picking up your end too soon, but that's still batter than if things were reversed.
The worst way you could react would be to let this affect how you treat future customers. Then you would be taking ownership of how she treated you. Let her carry it. You have to keep on believing in the good in people, or you'll get jaded and it will only hurt you in the long run.
Jim,It's nice to read something so upbeat and "people friendly." There's a lot of the, "What, no contract? You fool!" Which is not to say that contracts aren't necessary and useful...it's just nice to read that someone hasn't become jaded by the way so many people can act.
I did business with a guy for three different jobs and on the last he wouldn't sign my contract with him. He wrankled over every detail. He was a high level bureacrat with a housing development agov. agency. I guess he thought he was the clerk of the works for some big gov job, but anyway, he criticized my contract on the conclusion of job #2 with him, then I come back to do more work (job #3) with a better contract and he never signs -- kept putting it off, not home today, out of town tomorrow, gotta earache, on meds for flu, on and on. Lo and behold, when all the difficult work is done and its just time for sheetrock, he balks and doesn't want to pay the next or final installment. Oh well here we go I thinks to myself, after he started wrangling with me again about what he owed, I took my sign and tools and left. I was going to take him to court, but I have other things to do.He worked on the basis of the contract and paid, so we had an "implied" contract. I lost money and could have taken him to court and probably won if I had all my papers in order, but I am just too strapped now, a bit disorganized and I knew he would have the money to hire a lawyer to make my life miserable and waste my time. After time, I just chalked it up as a lesson I needed to learn again... that no matter how comfortable I get with a customer, rules is the rules -- you sign or we don't work.Anyway, DanT has a different situation. He trusted this woman, which is not a bad thing to trust people, not at all. But a contract with a check is the best way to go before ordering anything, or you end up stuck with inventory you don't need and nothing to come back to the customer with since it becomes a he said she said thing. Oh sure, a verbal contract has some weight, but try to spend your time and money fighting for that!Sounds to me like you got someone with big ideas and a little budget and she just doesn't want to say no, but should have had the restraint to do so when she saw trouble ahead with her finances. People get that way in fact, we're not perfect, I'm sure she didn't mean to be an idiot, things just got ahead of her.Take it as a lesson Dan, I guess you could have lost a lot more than 500 something dollars. With the guy above I was looking at getting another 3k at least and he just seemed to see the world in a different way than I and he wouldn't budge, so I had to call it quits and move on or fight and frankly, I need to reserve my energy right now.Ironically he called up recently and said I left a barrel and a pair of saw horses there and would I pick them up? and he loves us really and doesn't understand why we left so abruptly and maybe we were both under a lotta stress...To tell you the truth, I think I'll just sneak over and pick up my stuff and be done with him, he might have another trick up his sleeve.
Ahhhhh, how right you are!!!! With blinders firmly affixed, I was thinking only as service provider and not as customer.
I think I would rather be guilty of trusting too much once in a while on a judgement call.
I would always limit my exposure to an acceptable level in any case, but I would not want to become so jaded as to not trust my own instincts, even though occasionally my instints may lead me astray.
It's not always about money.
"Citius, Altius, Fortius"
I just last Saturday got out from under eviction decisions I had made . DW said I was wrong and so did the renters. I mentioned it on here and got asked some questions pertaining to it being a good idea? I called one friend that has a bigger rental business than I do and he advised I try to work it out with them.
However not a trusting sole , I delivered eviction notices and talked both of them out with out legal help or process.
I gottum out and spent an addtional 5 or 6 grand remodeling . I would not have been out that money if I had worked the rent out and somehow got paid. Reflective , its a loss . So it goes on the books.
What actually took place ;
I got rid of one nasty renter that was taking my property down hill . [Ill spare ya the details] You wouldnt believe what I had to fix. Stupid for a renter to have behaved that way in care of the property. I felt more stupid than them for allowing it. And they were slow to pay always but had made the note payments and such for 1 1/2 years.
I replaced them with two people living together that both have professional jobs and upped the income level about 60,000 a year extra. They both have nice rides and are older . She has a son that likes to party.
House is in top shape and really nice with a punch list completed. Except I need to replace two porch posts and Im waiting on some decent weather to work out side. They had chained a dog to them and ruined then both.
Second house was smoked in and had a problem child trying to tear it up for a couple of years. She had slipped in a puppy on me that wasnt house trained for a period of Im guessing 6 months . I found it on a random check and evicted imediately. The carpet went out the door and new pad came back in . I cleaned the carpet on a sloping driveaway freezing while she cleaned my personal house. She was my house keeper and I TRUSTED her. She was a single parent with problems and DW and I had helped her get other clients and she got to busy to mess with two half days a week for us . We were the only clients she had plus goverment help in the beginning . She moved in that house with zero deposits or a lease . She paid on time with the house cleaning money DW gave her.
I got two college preppy girls that have rich daddies. They wont be as good a renters except the money will be there . I got a healthy deposit and rent up front with a strong lease with teeth. House is in top shape and detailed.
Still yet another loss .
Dan , we make judgements and pull off the trigger or hold our hand . Thats what we all do. I will never know if I did right and cant call it back. According to others Im wrong . So be it , I cant change it now . I played the hand and its gone . Not to fret.
The only thing that really has bothers me is I didnt go to Laurel Ms. I was excited about making that trip and feel like I let some friends down. I probably wont get over that for a long time . It will always be a sad note but its over too.
Why I said all that , is that I did what I felt led to do from my judgement . No one can tell ya what your eyes see. You made a decision to trust this lady and SHE let YOU down. Im kinda proud of ya for not being a hard azz like me. Proud for ya too you are attending those meetings still tryin to better your self . You look pretty tall in this to me.
Ya gotta let it go.
Tim
you got rid of a bad renter,tearing up a house and not paying.hows that a bad move,if you let them stay the house is going to get worse,plus you know everytime you drive by it pissssss you off.i'm with your decision,get em out ,spend some money and get some good people in.i just ate 8 months vacant on comm. buildg just because i didn't like what was going on,but now have great renters and check is here when it's suppose to be .feels good! larryhand me the chainsaw, i need to trim the casing just a hair.
Because a lot of people like to try to talk their way through problems and wait on results.
I know a lanlord that would have strung it out .
Im just not that type is all .
Tim