So I am thinking about replacing my 5 dollar empire torpedo level and was shopping around, and I was confused what make the stabila levels so good (and expensive)http://www.stabila.com/ProductDetails.asp?C=8&P=30
I am also a little confused why it was designed with one flat surface and the other side with the hump, is there some cool techniques that can use that feature?
Replies
Ya know, I've got no idea what those levels are for either. Setting drain lines in the Nautilus?
I got this one:
http://www.stabila.com/ProductDetails.asp?C=8&P=29
Took both end caps off, so I can mark into corners or stand it on end while I use the drain lines in the Nautilus<G>
Don't worry, we can fix that later!
Took both end caps off, so I can mark into corners or stand it on end
I hate end caps with beveled edges....I alsways take one end off and leave the other end on so if I put it down on a finished floor it sdoesnt scratch the floor.
Why can't they make end caps flush and square????My life is my passion!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Why can't they make end caps flush and square???? I have a yellow level...not a Stabila...I think its a Johnson...nice level. But the edges are beveled, so it's difficult to draw a level line on the wall. I realize that a sharp edge would present problems, but the bevel is excessive.
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
I pop those dopey Stabila hand holes off too<G> Don't worry, we can fix that later!
You mean like this one?
View ImageKevin Halliburton
"Do you see a man skilled in his work? He will serve before kings; he will not serve before obscure men." - Solomon
I think they tried to make the body as compact as possible, and added the hump so the vertical vial could be the same size as the others. The smaller body lets it get into smaller places...theoretically. They also sell the box type levels in all sizes.
They are expensive because they are good. Very accurate and sturdy. It's a good tool...buy good tools and you won't regret it.
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
I have one of those levels. I guess it's shaped that way for the size. It actually gets lost in my tool bags sometimes. I always have it and use it all the time for a quick reference. I've dropped it a couple of times and it's still perfect.
Besides that it's just great!
W!
Marketing. See how it got your attention. Mine, too. I am a proud owner. Excellent tool that looks 'futuristic', who could ask for more. You'll have one by tomorrow. Good Luck! T R
The purpose of the "hump" is so you can rock the level so that the bubble will become centered between the lines. You use this to prove to the homeowner that the countertop is level no matter whether it is or not. "See, the bubble's centered so it must be level."
~Peter
I too have always wondered why the weird shape. I have six stabila levels...yet I don't own a stabila torpedo. For some strange reason, stabila makes their torpedos queer.
I did also notice that the stabila "tile installation levels" have that shape...seems like I've seen that shape in machine shops too, as precision straight edges.
As for me, I have a stanley
http://www.stanleytools.com/default.asp?CATEGORY=NEW%5FPRODUCTS&TYPE=PRODUCT&PARTNUMBER=43-512&SDesc=Lighted+Magnetic+Shockresistant+Torpedo+Level
gk
I bought that Stanley a few weeks ago on the shock resistant claim and the center vial already leaked enough fluid to give me a full side to side bubble. I went ahead and ordered the Irwin torpedo when I picked up the adjustable vial 4 footer at Toolcrib yesterday.Kevin Halliburton
"Do you see a man skilled in his work? He will serve before kings; he will not serve before obscure men." - Solomon
some people are rough on their tools, some are just unlucky. Sorry to hear about your misfortune. After looking at the Irwin, it seems possible that you could have the same problem. A better choice for you may just be the Stabila. Unlike the Stanley and Irwin vials that are simple acrylic tubes with capped ends, Stabila has thick square acrylic vials that are formed hollow and heat sealed with a thick acrylic plug. The plug is set so perfectly that you cannot even tell it exists.
Take a look at their website before you make a decision that you may regret.
http://www.stabila.com/Expertise.asp
gk
There have been exceptions for sure but ordinarily I'm not too rough on my tools - especially my levels. The problem with the Stanley torpedo arose when the magnet on the side wasn't strong enough to hold it to the metal stud fur down I was framing and I bounce tested it from about 7'-0" onto concrete. Looked fine at the time but a couple days later it was whacked.
My cheap wood level warped from the humidity just sitting against the wall in its case.
And actually the Irwin vials are also machined from a solid block of acrylic, just like the Stabilas, and are guaranteed for life never to fade, fog, leak, break or develop a static charge and if they do I can replace them myself without having to send it away for a few days. The magnets are also rare earth. They should hold the torpedo in place a little better than the Stanley's strip magnet did.
Here is a link to the Irwin specs and brochure. A picture and description of the vials is on page four.
http://www.irwin.com/irwin/consumer/jhtml/levels/IRWIN_levels_brochure.pdf
Irwins are no toys - at least not in a side by side spec sheet comparison with the Stabilas. Looks like they might have used some of the same engineers. We'll see how they do over the next year or two.
I'd offer a review for you guys after working with them for a while but frankly, with the levels I've owned in the past, I'll probably be pretty easy to impress.
Kevin Halliburton
"Do you see a man skilled in his work? He will serve before kings; he will not serve before obscure men." - Solomon
Yes, that is impressive, thanks. I looked on the irwin website and saw that the boxbeam levels have machined acrylic vials but the information and images provided on the torpedo level didn't seem to support that.
I do agree that they look like good tools....very similar construction to stabila. I wonder if stabila's patents are beginning to run out? I have a Johnson box beam level that also has machined acrylic vials.
Since we are talking about Irwin products...what has happened to make them grow at such a fast rate. It seems like one or two years ago they were just making augers and spade bits....now it is like they make everything. And where is that stuff made?
If it is made in the USA then I would buy them without hesitation. (except levels...I really do take pride in my stabilas!)
gk
Well, I had it in my head from page four of that brochure that Irwin's levels were American made but what it actually says is, "Patented vial system is 100% calibrated in our US factory."
I've got an e-mail in to the manufacturer for clarification, and to find out if the ganging together capabilities of the Levelution will ever find their way into the Irwin design. I also asked if they are covering the Levelution warranty. I'll post the reponse when I hear from them.
Irwin's been around since 1885 but it looks like the brand took off like a rocket when American tools bought Irwin then Rubbermaid bought American Tool in 2003. There is a pretty informative time line on the web site including all the companies now owned by Irwin. They consolidated all the companies under Irwin's name. I was surprised to find out some of the tools that are being assimilated. Sorry guys, Marples chisels, for example, will be coming with a blue handle and an Irwin brand on them from now on.
Hey, at least it's not Walmart... <G>Kevin Halliburton
"Do you see a man skilled in his work? He will serve before kings; he will not serve before obscure men." - Solomon
Ok, here's the skinny. Just got off the phone with Irwin. The levels are manufactured in Dewit, Iowa and the only product they carried over from Levelution was a chalk box.
Sorry guys, they cannot honor Levelution level's lifetime warranty because the product is no longer made.Kevin Halliburton
"Do you see a man skilled in his work? He will serve before kings; he will not serve before obscure men." - Solomon
Wow, that's really a shame! I'm almost afraid to use my outfit now since any damage will be the end of it :(
UT-OH!!!!!
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming.... WOW!!! What a Ride!
Ah well, from what I hear about the Levelution there probably won't be a flood of claims from the guys who bought them.
It's one more argument, IMHO, for the adjustable feature. You don't have to count on the company to stay in business long enough to fix it for you if it gets squirley.Kevin Halliburton
"Do you see a man skilled in his work? He will serve before kings; he will not serve before obscure men." - Solomon
Kevin
Sorry guys, Marples chisels, for example, will be coming with a blue handle and an Irwin brand on them from now on.
Seen them on the shelves for quit a while now.
They caught my eye, then I seen the Irwin name, figured they were just copying.
Doug
"Since we are talking about Irwin products...what has happened to make them grow at such a fast rate. It seems like one or two years ago they were just making augers and spade bits....now it is like they make everything. And where is that stuff made?"
Mergers and marketing.
If I remember correctly Irwin was owned by Emerson and then American Ladder Co.
Anyway it is now part of Newell Rubbermaid. As is Lenox Saw, Vise-Grips/Quick Clamp, Amerock, Hanson (taps and dies), Strait-line, Shur-line (paint rollers).
So a lot of the Irwin stuff is stuff that was orginally sold under the name of the orignal manufacture and now cross branded with IRWIN.
And one of the items is Marple Chisles. I "thought" that WMH (Jet Tools) bought out Marple. But I see that Irwin also has Record.
Found this one their web site;
"BRAND STRENGTH Product brands that are recognized market leaders including: VISE-GRIP¯, MARATHON¯, QUICK-GRIP¯, SPEEDBOR¯, STRAIT-LINE¯, UNIBIT¯, AND HANSON¯ will retain their brand names but share a common IRWIN¯ identity and endorsement.
All other products will be re-branded IRWIN¯ to give them strength in the market and deliver greater opportunity for IRWIN partners. The brand that will become IRWIN are: Chesco, Irwin Metal Star, Uni-Plus, Sprint, Marples, Horsepower, PowerPress, Prosnip, Face-Off, Jack, Pulverizer, Hanson Drill Bits, Fibercut, TurboMax, and Xpert.
EXAMPLE: Record Vises will become IRWIN vises."
LOL,,,, you guys should know that there is only one good side to any level. If you tune your levels, (assuming you do), you tune them to one side or the other. You don't split the difference and call it good no matter which side you lay the level on.
Stabila is just reminding you to use the correct side of the level. My Stanley has a view port on the top side so you can look down into it when standing over head. I tune my level to the oposite side and the view port reminds me which side is up.
O.K. before you ask, you tune your builders level with a water level. For a 4' level use an 8' piece of clear plastic tubing filled with water, (I use colored water). Nail the tubing to a wall and lay your level accross the top of the water lines at both ends of the tube. Adjust your level to match and your done.
Can't tune your level because you can't adjust the vials?... Buy a better level.
Sincerely;
The Tool Guy
Both sides of a Stabila are good...if they're not, Stabila will replace it for free (assuming you haven't used it as a prybar).
And in my mind, you'd be hard-pressed to find a "better" level.
I dont own a stabila and I think I have the finest levels made!
I'm shopping for a level myself right now - do tell.
By the way, I'm sorry to hear about your recent loss to those low life varmits what stole your tools. Hope you're not shopping for a new level yourself.
Kevin Halliburton
"Do you see a man skilled in his work? He will serve before kings; he will not serve before obscure men." - Solomon
Kevin
I use nothing but Smith levels, laminated walnut and maple, I think some people refer to them as masons levels, maybe they are, not sure. I wouldn't own anything else. I know everybody here seams to think that Stabila is the only thing that is dead nuts on! I disagree. Heck if a cheap Johnson is right on than its as good as anything, I read about the adjustable levels that you were looking at, sounds Ok.
I think that everybody has to believe that what they have is the best, got to justify having it.
On the other subject, yea the loss of the tools suck, ordered about $1000 worth of router bits at dinner time today, that will get me going for a short time, I'll have to buy them in spurts, we just bought a house here in San Marcos, so I guess its official, I live here! Cant go and buy everything back all at once,with the down payment and needing a refrigerator and washer/dryer, I don't think I can convince the wife to go to the laundromat so that I can replenish all my tools at once.
Insurance isn't paying, to long to explain, to painful to think about. Oh well, I guess the thieving POS needed the tools more than I did.
Doug
Man, I am so sorry Doug. Wish that lamentation could put a few of those tools back in your truck. Rare is the individual that could put them to better use.
If you catch them, I vote for a side by side whack test of your Smith against a Stabila over their sorry craniums. That ought to adjust the vial thugs.Kevin Halliburton
"Do you see a man skilled in his work? He will serve before kings; he will not serve before obscure men." - Solomon
Doug, you're right on regarding levels and tools in general and I include myself in your synopsis.
That blows that your insurance co isn't there when you finally need them. We pay and pay and pay, and when we finally need something from them it's like, "and you are........who?"
Hope your luck turns around quickly and congrats on the new house.
diesel
The short story is that I used to work for a contractor who required(because he didnt have the tools that he needed) me to have a lot of tools on the job. Well I left that job and took one at a cabinet shop, didnt need to haul all my stuff with me any longer so to save on insurance I changed policy to just home owners, the tools that were taken are my tools as a home owner, should be covered but they are saying that because I work in the field that they must be job related, I can argue all I want but I'm still going to be the one that foots the bill for the $5000 worth of missing tools. Sucks but what the hell can I do, crying doesnt help so I just laugh.
Maybe it isnt so short!
Doug
LOL,,,, you guys should know that there is only one good side to any level
Glad you're getting a chuckle out of us silly folks.
Can't tune your level because you can't adjust the vials?... Buy a better level.
But you need to step into this decade. Stabila vials are fixed, non adjustable and guaranteed accurate for life. That's LIFE. No questions asked. As long as the frame is not bent, you can drop 'em from 11 stories and not have to buy a new level... that's ever. They've also got the accuracy of the "bottom" side down to +/- .009 or some similarly fantastic degree of accuracy.
While you're adjusting your vials with your tube of water I'll use the extra time and frame a roof over your head for ya to keep you dry while you're fidgeting with your Pappy's level.
better yet, you can allow him to use your stabila level to fix his "podunk" level.
other carps always ask to borrow my stabilas to check their non-stabilas.
gk
I watched a cabinet hanger lay a level line around a kitchen with a digital Smart Level. I would say this tool's accuracy beats a regular level hands down.You get out of life what you put into it......minus taxes.
Marv
IIRC, a smart level only read to .1°.
If so, one could be off 1/16" in 4' and still be reading right on.
I prefer Stabila.
Jon Blakemore
Stabila 21999 10" Torpedo w/o "hump"
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00002257U/qid=1085370126/sr=8-10/ref=pd_ka_10/104-6641769-4371911?v=glance&s=hi&n=507846
**I am also a little confused why it was designed with one flat surface and the other side with the hump, is there some cool techniques that can use that feature?
The reason for the hump is because the manufacturer didn't want to design a smaller (torpedo-sized) vial.
I have never understood why torpedo levels have the crazy tapered ends. The only time I use a torpedo is when a longer level won't fit (i.e. a tight corner). But most of the time a torpedo won't work because the ends aren't straight and square.
I use adjustable levels, so drops and falls don't matter if the vials get knocked around. I'm very gentle on my tools anyway.
A few years back I got, as a gift, a gorgeous set of levels that could be joined with dovetails or set as a T. Think they were called Levolution or something cutesy like that, but they seemed to have vanished. A victim of the laser level onslaught maybe?
I just picked up the 4 foot stabila this weekend, splurged and got the cloth case for it also. I like it so much I am thinking about hanging it in the truck, but then it would get stolen.
It's designed that way for a variety of reasons. The hump on the torpedo makes it a "this side up" type of level. They're commonly used by tile setters, and it's common for tilesetters to tap on the top of the level to set the tiles.
The end is tapered so it can fit under a toekick or into some other tight space.
The endcaps on the other levels are the way they are so if the level is dropped, it's the end cap that gets dinged or deformed, not the bearing surface of the level. And with the end of the endcap being tapered, and damage to the endcap will not affect the ability of the level to sit flat on what is being leveled. When you need to tuck it into a corner, remove the endcap and you can scribe all the way to the corner.
Good levels.
I have a Stabila torpedo and 4' level. The torpedo IMO is not as accurate as my old Klein level, and I prefer the extruded aluminum of my General level to the 4' Stabila level. Not everything from Germany is da bomb, so to speak.
I like Stabila because of the durability, accuracy, and ease of reading correctly. I do not believe there is a finer level made.
I've had my Stabila level key chain for a dozen years now, and it still holds keys as accurately as the day I got it.