Why NOT build homes in a week like EHM?
geoffhazel
| Posted in General Discussion on
I got to thinking about this… if a show can get a house built in a week, wouldn’t it be cost effective to do this all the time? I mean, sure, you got three shifts working and possibly two or three crews at the same time, but still, if you put the heat on, you could cut costs all over the place, couldn’t you? Less time to pay on the construction loan, less loss due to weather damage, theft (someone is onsite 24-7), I dunno, somehow it makes sense to me.
Pros? Cons?
Replies
I'm gonna take it all back after watching the facts and pics of the home they did in Kingston, WA (my back yard) recently.
10,000 man hours in one week... pretty impressive..
http://www.centextreme.com/watchfunopen.html
Geoff,
I had to click "No" 22 times to get the first page to open, then, when I went to "Fun Facts" I got thru 12 others before it killed my browser (IE 5.5).
SamT
I'd love to get a real close look at one of those places. Quality must suffer. Sure, I can see how very careful planning and large crews can really speed things up, but these shows seem crazy. People must be tripping over each other. (Not to mention all those swinging sledge hammers.) Things like concrete, plaster, paint, caulk, grout, etc. all take time to dry or cure.
I wonder how many homeowners, after watching these shows, now think everything can be done overnight.
Al Mollitor, Sharon MA
Help me out here a minute. I don't want to be the scrooge here. While I agree it's all pretty impressive and not to take away from the need of these families but I have two issues with the show.
1 Do they really need that much to help them. How many more families could be helped if they had say one less plazma screen in the house, one less hot tub in a bedroom. It is starting to feel like gluttony of consumerism.
2 Is there nothing of value in these peoples homes that it all has to come down. Granted it's faster than to bring in people to patch and repair,paint and spruce up. The one family that had lost their Mom was a real heart tugger. But there is nothing left of that house that says Mom stood here at this sink or Mom planted those flowers. They uprooted it all.
It's helpful and there efforts are great but they go way beyond the extreme.
You know it doesn't take much to make my day and winning the lottery would be really cool but I'd settle for a lot less. Hell just buy my coffee tomarrow morning and my day is golden.
And another thing you don't need to build a whole house in a week. Here's what you need:
The HO to make a decision when you ask for it.
Your subs to show up when they say they will.
Special orders to arrive on time.
An inspector to show up when he says he will.
The weathermans forecast to be right the day before that big pour.
The list gos on and on.... it's a few simple things that need to go right and I'll bet you you'll get that house done just fine.
Edited 11/18/2004 11:46 pm ET by JAGWAH
Things like the plasma TVs and hot tubs are generally given to the shows because it's advertising. The show isn't spending any money that could be used elsewhere.
Yes it does feel a litle sickening to see theese TV shows offer consumerism, or having new stuff, as a cure to mourning the loss of your mother, or whatever dire straights these folks are in. It kinda makes you think that there is a conspiracy that, advertisers all got together to make the show so that when people watch it they think that their problems can be solved by plasma screens and jacuzi tubs as well.
Exactly. A very confusing subliminal message.. being charitable means having a sears card.
You're right about advertiser involvement. Network television exists to sell ad space -- always has. We may not have shows with names like Texaco Star Theater anymore, but the advertisers' influence is still present. And it'll only get worse.6
> We may not have shows with names like Texaco Star Theater anymore, but the advertisers' influence is still present.
What changed in the TV business in the late 1950's and early '60's is that single sponsorship got replaced by spot sales. IIRC, it was ABC that first tried it. It allows smaller advertisers to buy TV time in more affordable chunks, and lets the big guys spread their message around everywhere. I've recently flipped channels from CBS to NBC and landed at the same point in the same GM commercial. It's sort of like hardware stores used to sell nails in big kegs, now they come half a dozen in a plastic bag. ;-)
-- J.S.
Dating myself here, but the whole thing reminds me of that hanky grabber from the late 50's (if memory serves) "Queen for a Day."
"Queen for a Day." Sponsered by Filter Queen Vacuums, so I am told by a friend who has one of them. He's older than I, and remembers the show from his childhood. Along with the other stuff, every lady who won got a new vac.Maybe Oneida would like to rig a promotion called "Cyclone for a Day." Some lucky woodworker is chosen who exemplifies speed and efficiency. Tears through the workday like a tornado, but is underappreciated/overworked. Co-sponsors would shower him with new equipment he needs, and then Oneida presents him with a central ducted cyclone system hooked up to everything. Sign me up!Bill
Well said and all to true.If you want to show charity, dedication amd hard work coming together to build homes for the common good, why not do a show on Habitat for Humanity?Of course, I realize that wouldn't necessarily make for good television but then again neither do these extreme home shows IMO. I think shows like these just point to our overwhelmingsense of voyeurism. Everything is shock over substance.
Jagwah,Re: your comment, "Is there nothing of value in these peoples homes that it all has to come down. Granted it's faster than to bring in people to patch and repair,paint and spruce up. The one family that had lost their Mom was a real heart tugger. But there is nothing left of that house that says Mom stood here at this sink or Mom planted those flowers. They uprooted it all."I live in the community where that family lives, and there was an article in the local beach paper in which the husband expressed essentially the same point you mention. He was grateful for the big renovation, but felt cut off from the memories of his beloved wife, because the familiar reminders were all removed.Maybe there is hope for remodelers who are sparing in their use of the bulldozer, after all.Bill
I kinda feared that possibility. I know if it had been me it would be appreciated what they did and all but the house is more than four walls.
I tell people all the time how a house is a living being. I prove it time and time again by a simple comparison. Take a house that lies vacant for several months. Things start to fall off, paint starts to peel faster, the roof even seems to sag.
Then see that house with people in it, a happy loving family. It's all too obvious, the roof lifts, paint doesn't seem to be pealing off so fast, and stuff seems to hang on a little longer.
Maybe I'm just one of those rare/odd people that feels like they can channel the emotions of a house but I don't think I'm the only one. If I was there would be a lot fewer remodelers out there.
That house they took down was the last living breathing remnant of his wife. And while I believe somewhere she's happy for him and her children. It's just another veil separating them from the memory of her spirit.
Jagwah the house whisperer.
Edited 11/19/2004 3:30 pm ET by JAGWAH
Jagwah,
You're not alone, bro.
SamT
Jagwah,I like that, "the house whisperer." In truth, I have seen the house's self-dignity rise and fall with the tenor of the occupants. I have worked for rich folks whose house was so dead and unpleasant, despite being clean and well-made and all. I've also serviced customers of modest means whose dwelling was humble, but felt "right" to be in. Friendly, and neither fancy nor shabby. Those are the places I prefer to work. These jobs are the happiest ones.Bill
You know it doesn't take much to make my day and winning the lottery would be really cool but I'd settle for a lot less. Hell just buy my coffee tomarrow morning and my day is golden.What's ur address, I'll send u a cup.
Thank you.
I must be easier than I thought, your offer feels pretty good.
Buy yourself a cup tomarrow and so will I and we can thank each other as we enjoy the drink. Now don't cheap out, I know I'm gonna get a $3 cup at least on your dime you do the same.
Thanks
Buy yourself a cup tomarrow and so will I and we can thank each other as we enjoy the drink. Now don't cheap out, I know I'm gonna get a $3 cup at least on your dime you do the same.
I'll be drinking about 9:00, thinkin of u. Thanks.
Buy yourself a cup tomarrow and so will I and we can thank each other as we enjoy the drink. Now don't cheap out, I know I'm gonna get a $3 cup at least on your dime you do the same.
Thanks for the Joe. U fix a mean cup. was good.
Thanks for the same. I got a triple late' whatchacallit, still buzzed from it.Thanks yourself.
Jagwah
How many more families could be helped if they had say one less plazma screen ........
Or they could just not do any and how many families would benefit?
I kinda agree with you but I also look at it this way, at least some are getting help. No, not as many as if they did it your way but if they did then eventually there show would be canceled and we'd be back to sq. one.
I don't watch the show to much, always the same thing, "are we going to make the deadline"(notice how all these shows have that same theme)With the exception of the families dilemma the show always seems to be the same.
I have been involved with HFH and for several years. I helped build one house every year, installed all the cab's and trim in several more. I like that idea a lot more, at least for me, more rewarding.
I would like to be involved in one of the blitzes just one time, I'd like to see a house built in a week just to see up close and personal how it all goes.
Doug
Less quality comes to my mind if your using wood.
Wood has to dry out before boading and trimming.
blue
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Blue,
what the heck would you know about quality anyway??? according to Gabe you are just a hack wannabe... <G>
and Gabe is never wrong....
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
I can think of about 50 reasons it wouldn't be practical or cost effective to do this all the time.
Like no way are you going to find subs with people willing to work 3 shifts. If you did get some to work a late shift you'd have to pay them more.
No way can anyone work efficiently while there are 30 other people on the site trying to do different things. Can you imagine trying to hang drywall while the electrician, HVAC guy, and plumber are all there trying to work in the same house?
There would be a lot of standing around and waiting, too. The electricians would be waiting on the framer to finish framing the walls so they could start their electrical rough-in. (Before the roof was on) The plumbers would have to wait for the electrician to get out of the bathroom so he could get in there and rough in the pipes. And the drywaller would be standing there waiting for the plumber to finish, etc.
What happens when the windows don't come in, or are wrong? Or one gets knocked over and broken? Or the kitchen cabinets are wrong when they get there?
Where are you going to get materials 24 hours a day? It's easy to say you'd have it all there before the lumberyards close. But there are always things you need that you forgot to order or cut wrong or whatever.
I could go on, but -
If you want a house fast, I think you're better off buying a modular.
You are right.Those house are not built in a week.The onsite construction might be a week. But all of the plans are done and the materials order and STORED long ago.A couple of weeks ago they had a 2nd show on Monday night that was suppose to be a behind the scenes show. Well it really did not show that much, but what was interesting was the several block of streets that where full of trucks and semi's hold material and equipment.And they don't wait for the inspector as they have a paid inspector 24x7.No, this is not a cheap way to build a house."What happens when the windows don't come in, or are wrong? Or one gets knocked over and broken? "I suspect that every one of those house has a window with plywood over it, a missing sink, a sink that is not connected. Or similar "unfinish" parts.What I realy want to know is how long after the end of the show before it is realy finished.
"But all of the plans are done and the materials order and STORED long ago."
I don't really think that's the case. I posted about a house we did trusses for a while back:
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=45844.2
I believe they called on Tuesday, needed someone up there Wednesday, and had to have the trusses there by Friday. They had called many truss plants and they had all refused. We were the first ones that were willing to do it, even though the job was over 200 miles away.
Eat well, stay fit, die anyway.
Boss,
Don't know if you caught it but on that behind the scenes show, there was one shot of a room they did in the basement and you could clearly see that they had just covered the ceiling with black plastic and tape. I am sure that got fixed later.
Dennis
Can you imagine trying to hang drywall while the electrician, HVAC guy, and plumber are all there trying to work in the same house?
Especially for rough-in.
The one "tricky bit" is that there's no reason the "finish" work couldn't overlap more, though. That brings its own complications--you need the cabinetry seperated fro msome of the finish carpentry, which has to dodge the floor man and the counter top man, etc.
I've seen Centex, to name a name, try it. Drywall mud on the finished cabinets; stair apron sawzalled to go around cover plates for outlets; dolly tire scuff marks on the wood floors after delivering appliances--that sort of thing.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
What I want to know is how these families pay the taxes on these new houses after they are done. Many of them go from a house barely worth bulldozing to a house with Viking appliances, 8 miles of granite and five times the square footage.
What gets my goat...Habitat for Humanity has been doing this for 25 years...maybe not as fast nor as glitzy. But difinitely changing peoples lives!
Spends some time on a HfH site, meet the Homeowner and come to the dedication.
Do you know how many homes HfH could build with the funding that one of those Extreme Homes cost?
In Peace and Partnership,
MartinHeads I win, tails you lose.
Exactly my point, I agree. It doesn't take very much to impact people's lives!
A challenge to everyone who hasn't, Volunteer with your local Habitate for Humanity. I'll guarntee you you'll be rewarded for your good deed in more ways than you could imagine.I've been part of two so far and it's a great feeling helping someone get a new start in life.
It reminds of a documentary I saw from probably the mid-1970's from California Public TV. These folks wanted to build a house (actually 2 houses) in a race between 2 teams in under 4 hours. The goal of the race was to prove the value of planning and micromanagement to perfection.
The winning team (350 workers) went from a piece of bare ground to a slab-built, one-story, stick-built house in 2 hours 45 minutes.
The major tricks that I remember...
1) Fast cure concrete for the slab - they were walking/working on it 45 minutes after pouring it. 2) Frame / deck / and shingle the roof before hoisting it into place with a crane. Roofers (a lot of roofers) were actually putting down shingles as the crane was swinging it into position. 3) Detailed cut lists and specialization. Each cutter made only one type of part. He knew exactly how many would be needed, and every detail required. Cut lists for the framing included boring holes for electrical and plumbing rough-in before framing was assembled.
House was done, wired, plumbed, inspected, painted, carpeted, appliances installed. landscaped, ready to move in - after 2 hours 45 minutes. I wonder if it's still standing. The losing team also beat the 4-hour mark. The houses are/were in San Diego. Anybody else know the rest of the story???
I remember the post-race interview with the winning coach as he explained his team's strategy and preparation - "Yeah... We built two practice houses on Tuesday..."
Look it is just a dramatic TV show and by the sounds of it they got a lot of attention and that is what the sponsors want. A bunch of bright TV producers, who have never picked up a hammer in their lives, sat in a back room and brainstormed ideas to make money. Training grandmas as steel workers and turning plumbers into ballet dancers were thrown out but they said "hey why not build a house in a week?"
This is not house building it is TV. I caught the last part of the program last week where the Canadain contractor left the job I felt he was slighted so does he, I read he is going to sue. Take that producers!!!
I have always thought that prefrabrication of houses must be a better way of bulding them. I am sure that the houses you see on these shows are not truely prefrabricated houses - but hours and hours of planning has gone into them so that they can be built in such a short period of time. They don't reflect reality as they would cost too much to produce that way in real life.
From my very limited experience of house building I often see houses take one or two years as money problems and contactor and material scheduling are often and issues.
House down the road from me sits idile as they can't find bricklayers to do the job for a reasonable price. House is too close to the next one. And the bricklayer who told me that is sitting on his #### as the job he had scheduled is on hold while his builder waits for windows to show up which were never ordered.
I probably cost twice as much to build that way. Just think of all the over-time pay, material pre-production storage, etc. I'd bet the insurance for that kind of operation is over the moon.
Ed.