I am in middle of addition/ restoration project on 1830 house and had removed all the old random width pine flooring (from 5″ – 19″) and lengths from 10 to 20′. It was painted and I had all boards planed down to uniform 13/16″ thickness. Some of the boards have broken grooves or tongues and others are cracked. I now desparately need some advice on proceeding.
1. Original floor was tongue and groove, so I am intending to redo t&g where necessary with a router. What is the proper size for t&g flooring bit to be used in my floors? I don’t have a shaper.
2. Is it best to use a router table or could I just clamp a board to flooring as a fence and run a router by hand down edge?
3. I am intending to face nail boards with old square nails and have read that nailing pattern of about 3 nails for a 12″ board with spacing of nails no closer than 2″ to edge. Correct? How many nails along length, at each floor joist (LVL’s 16″ oc)? ( I have AdvanceTech 3/4 subfloor). Will these nails hold?
4. I am intending to have floor sanded lightly after installation or is it better to have boards sanded now that they are up and no nails to deal with?
5. I have read about sealing boards to minimize moisture movement. Backs of boards are very rough. What is recommended here?
5. How do you fill old nail holes? Some are quite large? Bungs? I guess that would require drilling out uniform size of bungs. Is there a filler which would not be too noticeable given my choice of finishes (below)?
6. What is best finishing techique for floor if one wants to protect but keep floor natural color? Non or semi gloss spar vanish? 3 coats?
I know this is a lot of questions and would appreciate assistance on any of the above inquiries. Given amount of time/effort in getting boards up, denailing and planing them, I really don’t want to screw up now.
thanks,
Adam
Replies
Sad
I'm not going to try to answer all your questions, but if you are going to make the tongue and grove with a router you better expect to have some variation in the T & G's. Anytime you use a handheld machine there will be some variation. I dont know that you will get that much better results with a router table, maybe if you had an automatic feeder.
Some of your other questions can be answered by doing a search on this topic, it has been discussed some. Just recently Andy Buildzit(sp?) brought it up, hes doing a house from 1492, or some old year, cant remember which.
I wouldnt use filler to fill large nail holes, it wont take stain the same as the wood. Use wood.
Doug
I would rip clean edges and have it T&G'd at a local woodworking shop. You will lose a little footage, but maybe you can match it with something else. Doing the T&G by hand router is a nasty job.
If you are going to face nail, pre sanding as much as you can ahead of time would be good. I've never seen a machine sanded,face-nailed floor that didn't have the nails ground, no matter how careful they were. Especially on Pine. If you mill a tiny chamfer on the edges, you might get away without (floor) machine sanding.
If you go that far, you might as well pre-finish it a couple coats all the way round. Then, viola-pre-finished flooring, just nail it down!
I'd fill the large holes with wooden plugs, looks more old-fashioned, specially with 3 coats of satin urethane.
Edited 9/25/2003 7:23:34 PM ET by DAVEHEINLEIN
Using a router with a toungue and groove bits can be difficult. The bits require (at least the ones I have tried) a shaper to control them. It can be done with a router, but I found using a router table set-up was the way to go. Yes you can bring the boards to a millwright and have them done... or you can use a slotting bit and spline them. Also this allows you to spline the ends which will aid in minimizing cupping at the ends. I use a 1/4" slotting bit in my router with a bushing to set the depth of a slot to 1/4". Spline material I rip from scrap wood.
As for nailing, I would recommend using only two nails per board width. You stand an increase chance of splitting the boards in seasonal movement with more than two nails. Your 2" from the edge is a safe bet. Face nailing I try to hit joists; 16" centers may be too busy a nail pattern so go to 32" or 24". I just do not trust engineered wood sheathing for holding face nails. If you do have spline/T&G boards, then you can edge nail the boards down first and then face nail them to have a more secure fastening. This also allows a light sanding/screening before face nails. Otherwise you will need to sand or plane boards prior to installation and live with any uneveness.
Sealing boards will help minimize movement if you use a penetrating oil like Tung Oil or Linseed but the boards with move seasonally. Straight urethane sealer will protect the surface of the flooring but will do little to stabilize the flooring. I never bother sealing or otherwise treating the bottom of the floor boards, but I do use a penetrating oil finish prior to a urethane top coat. As much as I like Tung Oil, most of my clients like urethane so I first use DURASEAL 210 Neutral, a heavybody clear penetrating stain. Especially on softwoods, this helps strengthen and stabalize the wood. It is compatable withthe DURASEAL Polyurethane finish I use as well.
You do not mention grade of flooring. I use glued in knots salvaged from other boards, and wood filler to fill in holes. Ebony works much better in many cases than trying to match grain and colour. Also I limit the filling to major blemishes. I think if you have many small nail holes to fill, it is better to leave them unfilled. They seem to blend in and dissappear better than filled.
Do not forget using rosin paper under your floor to minimize squeaks in the floor movement.
Any finish will change the colouration of the wood. Oil finishes allow more natural patina to develope. Urethanes etc. tend to stabilize the colour and keep it unchanging longer. Take your pick.
I have never tried it on floors, but it works well on furniture and trim...one part each of tung oil, turpentine and spar varnish. Brush on and let soak, then wipe off the excess. Repeat two or three times. I keep meaning to try it myself. Someday.
Thank you and all others for your time, knowledge and advice. I am finished planing the old pine boards to 13/16 uniform thickness and will be squaring them, and then delivering to mill for t&g. One suggestion I had was to cut the random width boards to a uniform widths, such as 6", 8" 10" and 12" 14" etc. so that I could butt boards together and increase amount of my usable flooring. (My rooms average 14-16' and my stock after cutting off bad ends, etc. is a lot of 12' pieces. I have read on this site about advisablity of splining ends of boards with 1/4 splining bit and then cutting splines to fit the gap from [other pine stock]?
What do you think about butting boards? I don't think running a border pattern would fit in with these boards and a 1830 house. I'm not sure I've personally seen an example of this being done with old pine flooring and just wanted opinions on whether this would look ok and not be a problem in maintaining flatness.
Any help is always appreciated.
Adam
Why worry about butting the ends? That just part of the "old house" charm - having those boards that don't line up properly. and, if they're in the middle of the room, they're probably covered by an area rug, anyway.Ellen
Old pine has a nice look, but you may be in for a bit of job here. I would recommend going to a shop that has a real flooring line. Have the boards gang ripped to the nearest multiple of an inch and then the T&G done with the proper machinery; i.e. a multiple-head molder. Flooring is a fairly precise product. The slightest bow or inaccuracy in the milling will make your life hell trying to lay the stuff. I think you're asking for a whole lot of trouble expecting a regular millwork shop to do a proper job with the usual equipment. Any lack of precision will require a lot of sanding to compensate. Also, modern flooring is grooved on the back. If you don't do that, any variation in the subfloor will be harder to work with.
The square nails may add a certain "look", but they will not make for a floor that stays flat. On flooring that wide, I would screw and plug. A lot of work for sure, but reliable. You can add a few nails for decoration after the floor is sanded. Drill, countersink and screw each plank firmly maybe 2 inches from the tongue edge. Another screw at the other edge for boards wider than 6 inches. A third in the center for 10 or 12 inch planks. The holes for the center and groove edges must be large enough so the shank of the screw can float an eighth to a quarter inch. The boards will expand and contract. If you screw them solid all across, they will crack. There's a reason (other than just cost) why most flooring is skinny little strips. Really old homes with wide flooring had big seasonal gaps. This is the nature of wood. A 12 inch plank can easily move a quarter inch. Make sure you allow for this or you'll have an unpleasant surprise.
Your thinking is right on. Milling the boards to uniform width(s) will greatly increase your efficiency and look of the floor. They do not all have to be the same width, just each course.
Your correct about the border... It was rare to see one with wide plank flooring, especially in 1830 houses. A reminder; remember to leave at least 1/4" gap between floor board and wall to accomadate expansion. Even well-seasoned old boards with move with sasonal adjustment.
I spline the ends of all my wide plank flooring. I use a 1/4" slotting bit with a bushing to give me about 3/8" depth. I have used wood (sometimes the flooring wood, usually fir or pine ripped from leftover 2x) and 1/4" plywood. I have not noticed any difference in what I chose. You should not glue the splines or nail them.
If you are worried about your lengths vs. room lengths, one technique is to start with your longest length to a joist. Then your next course is 32" or 48" shorter. Try to keep your field runs the same length. In this way you will have a staggered pattern and not find yourself with any close joints on consecutive courseswalk good
sad,
be happy : )
My circa:1680 house I bought last year that I'm doing extensive work on has the most crooked gapped, cupped wide planks you ever saw............
and I love it that way!
They were also painted and I will hire a cpl of guys when the time comes to help me hand liquid strip them back to their original form.
I reckon thats not the answer you wanted but I think thats what gives old houses their charm. I considered turning the boards over but in some areas I had to remove the boards I could see that wouldn't really work so I'm not going to inject collogen or add implants to em'......lol.......I like em just the way they are!
Good luck on your project!
Be old
andy
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