I would like to make a new birch flush door look like the other birch doors that appear to have been shellaced 45 yrs ago. The older doors are darker than the new. If I apply shellac first and its still too light, can I then apply some stain? Thanks for any help.
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Yes, I suggest a gel stain, then clear coat with Laquer.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
Are you saying that stain will penetrate the shellac? Or is the gel stain just going to sit on top of it?
I would stain first, then shellac.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
both.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
Add some color to any subsequent layers of shellac
use colored shellac, amber, yellow, etc, many are available ..
I believe you're going about this backward.. Take some denatured alcohol and simply wet the surface of the door. Quickly the shellac will soften and then you can simply wipe it off.. now you have bare wood and can finish however you wish..
It's amasing how fast you can strip a shellaced door.. (or piano in my case)
Then to make life simpler for future generations simply reshellac with whatever color shellac you wish.. (I prefer blonde but you might like amber or even garnet)...
Would very likely use an HVLP spray gun or a standard high-pressure gun (if you don't have an HVLP) to spray some trans-tints dissolved in more shellac (Zinnser's SealCoat which is pretty clear/blonde which makes it's easier to adjust the color with the TTs to find your target color) I would not try this with a brush as the shellac will flash fast enough that a streaky color result is very likely.
Pierce the bottle tip with a needle; don't cut it off. Count the drops of each color you add, try it out on a small-ish area of a door and adjust colors accordingly. (If the color isn't right, simply remove it with some denatured alcohol on a rag and try again.)
Mix the TTs in the shellac on the weak-ish side and sneak up on final depth of color you need ....one coat at a time. You'll get the hang of this pretty fast with a little trial & error. (Count your drops of each color added (write it down) for further reference if a trial batch should get away from you color-wise and you must start over from scratch.)
Up to 42 total drops of TTs in 8 ounces of shellac will give you a very easily controlled mixture to head for light to medium depth colors. 56 total drops in 8 ounces is the maximum concentration I would recommend, but that will get you to darker colors with fewer color coats and I do it frequently with no problems. Any higher concentration of TTs in the shellac than that and you risk interfering with proper drying and curing of the shellac/color mix.
Once you have the final color established, shoot a coat or two of clear shellac over the top for protection of the color coats. Or... apply a coat or two of a different finish (after shellac has dried/cured for a day or more), but I wouldn't recommend a nitrocellulose lacquer over the shellac....such as Deft Clear Wood Finish.
http://www.homesteadfinishing.com/htdocs/TransTint.htm
Edited 12/16/2008 9:55 am ET by HootOwl
I agree. And the hint about piercing the top of the TransTint bottle with a pin is priceless!! If you cut the top and the bottle is knocked over, it leaks.The recommended procedure is mix the dye in alcohol, and add that to the shellac. But I've done it both ways and don't see much of an issue. Doing it the two step way allows a little more control over the color.
Curious, what's your objection to Deft over shellac?Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
Seems sometimes you can/might get away with it and other times...not so much.
If the ambient temps are on the cool side and/or the relative humidity is high, it slows the evaporation rate of the lacquer thinner. In that you have no choice of which thinner when buying a ready-made product off the shelf and Deft is a brushing lacquer with a slow-evap thinner/retarders.....these conditions can allow the LT to sit there long enough to eat into and wrinkle the underlying shellac. The heavier the coat of nitro applied, the greater the odds of this problem developing.
Also, nitro always bonds bestest to itself, as you already know. However, you *can* get away with nitro over shellac if conditions and ingredients are right..or so it seems. BTDT many times. Still, it makes me a little nervous just thinking about it. <G> The odds of something going awry if this is attempted by an "average Joe" leads me to dissuade them from trying it. Would sooner they didn't find themselves swearing at me cause I said it would work fine and/or didn't warn them about the potential pitfalls. Then we would have a "what went wrong" thread to follow. lol
In that it is winter in many parts of the country and sometimes guys try to save a few bucks by keeping the thermostat turned down a bit too far in the shop, the odds of a mishap increase, me thinks. Better safe than sorry in this instance, I guess
Edited 12/16/2008 10:44 am ET by HootOwl
I agree, thanks.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
FWIW, I guess I'll add that one of the best ways to safely/more safely lay down some brushing-nitro over shellac is by spraying it with an HVLP turbine rig. That cause you're then adding some of your own thinner to hit a proper viscosity and because the turbine warms the air and consequently the material itself.............leading to much faster evaporation of the LT. Faster is better/safer in this instance......so long as it doesn't orange-peel. I've never personally had a failure applying nitro over shellac this way, but I can see someone laying down a fairly heavy coat of the Deft (or similar) straight from the can, with a brush ......and problems developing from that. ..particularly if the temps are low and/or humidity high. All things are relative, eh?
That was my query, I have sprayed lac. over shellac and seal coat for years and years. I never once had an issue. But then again, I mostly had only one coat of sealer/shellac as a sealer not an actual build coat that could react adversely.I also rarely if ever brush, brushable Laq. I always spray, and if thinning I can use fast thinner. Most auto thinners can be had in fast or slow.I can see how a non experienced person could screw it up.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
Consider tolerating a lighter door for a few years. It's possible the other doors also had a clear finish, that yellowed over time.
The answer is yes and it pretty straight forward as well,
http://www.josephfusco.org/Articles/Blotch_Stain/Blotch_Stain.htmlwww.josephfusco.org
http://www.constructionforumsonline.com
Edited 12/16/2008 1:56 pm ET by Joe