I’m in the process of refurbishing the wooden windows in our home and would appreciate your input on the following problem I’m anticipating.
I have heard that some folks dip the glazing knife in windex as they glaze/work the window. I’m told that this keeps the glazing compound from adhering to the glazing knife. My question is this. From my own personal experience I know that soapy water works perfect on caulk so why wouldn’t it work just as well if not better than Windex for glazing? I will be using DAP ’33’ glazing putty.
I have also heard that mineral spirits is used for the same purpose. The can instructions say that mineral spirits should be used for clean-up. It does NOT say that you cannot use it in laying down the glazing putty. However,I suspect that if mineral spirits is good for clean-up then using it while applying the glazing would have a thinning effect so would be counterproductive. I’m ‘shootin’ from the hip’ in regards the mineral spirits, but if it is used to clean-up then – to me anyway – that means that it can dissolve the glazing putty and that is not what we want.
Thanks in advance for all who took time to share their expertise.
Regards,
Phillip
Replies
I recently finished re-glazing the windows on the second floor front of my house. In all, there were almost 100 panes that needed redone.
I have never used anything on the knife when tooling glazing compound. I just make sure that the knife is reasonably clean. I also 'work the glazing' in my hands before putting it on the window. This is a critical step, and is a bit like kneading bread dough. If the compound is not at body temperature, it just won't go down the same. Also try to keep your knife fairly warm too -- glazing on really hot days will accomplish this, so will body temperature.
Use a combination of the knife and your hands to roughly place globs of compound on the glass, against a mullion. Then use the knife, with what will seem like LOTS of pressure, to tool that stripe. Move kind-of slowly, keeping the angle constant so it will look nice.
If the compound starts to pull away from the wood, it (the wood) probably was not prepped right. (You did use linseed oil?) If it starts to pull apart from itself, then you probably didn't work it enough to soften it. If it pulls away from the glass, then the glass is probably either wet or dirty. If it sticks to the knife, then the knife is likely either dirty, or rusty, or too cold.
Unless you're the lead dog, the view just never changes.
I've done enough reglazing to know you're right on the money with advising to knead the putty until warm and pliable. I've never used anything to help the process along like linseed oil or spirits or windex or whatever. Just take the time to warm it up in my hands and work out the grainy texture it has straight from the can. Once I get it ready, I'll usually roll it in ropes about pinkie finger size and lay the rope along the glass then press into place with my thumb gathering the excess in my palm as I go. Once you've got one side of the window covered, take the putty knife and slowly keep downward pressure on the putty while moving along the glass. Most of the excess will come out the bottom of the knife. This all goes back with the other putty and gets a repeat of the kneading process just to mix it back up.
It's a tedious process but the results speak for themselves when you look at a well done job. And sorry to say, there are no shortcuts in the learning curve. Practice, practice, practice...
Homewright,
Want to pass on something that might help you and others who helped me out when I needed some guidance with window glazing.
I bought a small crock pot to heat up a can of Tried & True linseed oil that I was using on a table I made a while back. This crock pot is about 6 inches in diameter and about 5 inches deep. The can of 33 DAP glazing fits perfectly in this crock pot. I put in the can of DAP, fill it to the top with water and wait about 25-30 minutes for it to heat up. This pot cost about $8-9's at WalMart. Works great for keeping the glazing warm.
This may be pretty handy in the cooler months.
Regards,
Phillip
PhillipB,
I like to use linseed oil on the putty knife to make the glazing flow. Just oil up a rag and wipe your knife clean. Dap33 seems to come in various consistencies so I either spread it out on some cardboard if too wet or add linseed oil if too dry. Like Yesmamm said you gotta knead it also.
KK
Seems to me I recently saw someone that bedded the glass in caulk first, then layed down the putty. Does this sound right?
pino,
That makes it hard to replace the glass. I see no need.
KK
I do that, but not with caulk. I use the same DAP 33 on both sides of the glass. A tiny amount under the glass evens out the surface and prevents point contact against the glass. You can see it spreading out and filling in as you push the glass down.
-- J.S.
Thanks. That may be what I read in the article , but its all kinda of fuzzy.
I'll give it a try this weekend since I have to reglaze a dounble hung.
Phillip,
Another tip I have is, if you are a righty, work "down" and "to the left". This means that if you are working on a flat surface (whch I highly recommend), do the right edge, the bottom (closest to you) edge, then flip the sash so you can get the other two edges which will now be the right, then bottom, edges. It is much easier to keep a consistent edge this way.
Hope this helps. Rich.
I warm the sash with a heat gun or you could use a hair dryer. then use the heat gun on the final pass with the knife to give it a factory installed look.
I've become fond of using the glazing compound that comes in a caulk tube. It comes with a flared tip and goes down nicely. Keeps your hands cleaner, too. It is latex based and I use a small saucer of water to dip my knife in as necessary. The usual prep is required, but, I like it so far.
Bob.
Gentlemen,
I want to thank each of you that took the time to help me out. I took all the advice that was given and applied it as follows. Here is how it all went.
First of all, the windows I have been refurbishing are on our 1920's era Oak Park, IL bungalow. So, I first had to remove approximately 1/8 inch of paint, then remove the windows - and yes! I did break a few. Some of the glazing that I removed was familiar to me in that it did resemble the glazing - semi-soft, dull white in color - that most of us have seen before. But some of it did not. What this 'glazing' looked like was yellow or amber in color and hard as a rock. Had to use a sharp chisel to scrape it off.
Once all the window frames were stripped of paint, I used wood-filler to repair as best I could some of the cracks and chips received over the years. Then I sanded them slightly with the new 3M Sandblaster sandpaper in 60x ( the green stuff) on my trusty PC 330 bloc-sander. Then they all got 2 coats of a white oil-based primer. Now it was time for the glazing.
First of all, I left the can of DAP 33 out in the sun to warm up. We don't get too much sun around here so this was not very effective. What I did first was to lay down a good bead of DAP 'Window Glazing' which comes in a TUBE with a pre-formed nozzle. I bought this before I sought your help, but one of you mentioned something about glazing not being uniform in texture. This tube stuff is a little softer and stickier than the '33' can stuff so I thought it would work best if used under the glass where it would fill all the voids easier than the other. It also kept me from breaking any more of this very thin glass by not having to push down too hard. This worked fine as best I could tell.
After this, I fastened the windows in place with the glazier points. Used 3 on the 28" side and 2 on the 18" side. No problem here. The glass pushed down against the soft putty pushing the excess out. I cleaned this up with a putty knife. Appeared to be about 1/8" between glass and window frame.
Next came the canned '33' stuff. The glazing under the lid just stuck to everything. I could not roll it as I had been instructed so I just used a narrow putty knife to move it from the can to the window. This worked OK until I got down and inch or so. The glazing below this layer was a lot stiffer and I could actually make a 1/2 inch (or so) 'rope' about 3-4 inches in length. So far so good for this rookie.
Then it happened. Once I placed this rope of glazing onto the window it cooled off in no time and I had a time trying to give it that 'professional' look. And yes, I was doing my best to keep the knife clean. Then I remembered another bit of wisdom one of you bestowed on me. The heat gun! I didn't have that exact tool but I did have an old hair dryer that worked just fine to warm up the glazing. Now I could begin working it again. I was not prepared for just how stiff this glazing can become in a short period of time. I have no idea how window glazing can be done in cooler climates much less in the winter months. Must take a lot of heat.
However, having learned A LOT in the past few days, I will say that my lessons learned are as follows and anyone is free to correct me if I'm wrong.
IF the canned '33' had been mixed beforehand - if that's even possible - to get the same consistency, then I can well see how it could be worked easier. However, I have read enough ( I actually dug into the archives before seeking help ) to know that most glazier's do 'roll a rope' and it could never have been with the upper layer in the can. This stuff was just too sticky. So putty consistency is important - as one of you said as well.
The next thing that I learned is that this glazing putty has to be WARM or HOT depending on what your ambient working temperature may be. I can hear each of you going, 'Well, DUH!! We told you so.' When I 'rolled the rope' in my hands it was fine, but after a few minutes on the glass it became quite stiff and difficult to work. Having an ol' hair dryer handy can save the day.
Now, going full-circle back to the Windex, I have to say that, in my rookie opinion, there does seem to be something to it. Like each of us, I wanted my finished glazing to look as pro as possible. As I worked along, some edges looked good and others did not. In frustration, I sprayed my (clean) wide putty knife with the Windex and it just slid across the glazing leaving a nice smooth finish. I used my finger in the corners and got the same result. Some of you may consider this a 'tip' or not.
I also will admit to trying the linseed oil. You don't know until you try it yourself so I tried it. I did so after using the Windex and saw no apparent advantage to it over the Windex. So I stayed with the white Windex. I'm not one to say that this or that will or will not work unless I KNOW it won't so I just had to try the linseed oil. On a cold day it may be the only solution.
So, a BIG, Thank You! to all of you who took the time to share your expertise and get me on track. I hope that someday I may be able to return the favor.
Regards,
Phillip
P.S. I don't 'do window's' for a living. If you are so inclined, some of my wood working is at: http://homepage.mac.com/pabriles/
My two cents...I never liked the Dap glazing since it was either two sticky or two hard. Just for the heck of it, I tried the Ace Hardware brand. I wasn't expecting much since I figured that Dap made it for Ace, but I found it to be much better...less kneading to get a good consistancy and less sticking to the knife.