Based on an evaluation yesterday, I am looking to replace a double window. Specifically, I am searching for a business that sells and installs, using their own employees. Looking for like-style and performance so as not to incur the wrath of the HOA.
Per the evaluation recommendation, need existing window removed, brick sill and additional course peeled back (removed), enamelized (painted) through-flashing installed with appropriate mason bond agent, re-brick/mortar with weep holes, new window and trim installed, etc.
My concern is one in which the product seller has, maintains, and uses own employees to do the work, and in which the workmanship can be warrantee. I’ve tried independent contractors, but those I’ve run into–including those I’ve offered blank checks to–seem to all be transient (ahem, fly-by-nighters).
I am really trying to stay away from the big-box solutions, the marketed-better-than-product sources (e.g. Pella), etc. I work a lot from home and as such can easily make the premise available anytime. I also plan, per recommendation, to document via digital photography the various stages–while not trying to get in anyone’s way.
Suggestions? Recommendations? I understand the new mortar will not match, I am willing to salvage a front step for any matching brick for job needs, etc. I am in the 30519 zip code, which is Northern Gwinnett County Georgia.
Replies
Good luck!!
Wish I had a reason to go down to GA. But, alas can't help you.
"Looking for like-style and performance so as not to incur the wrath of the HOA."
Then go to them and ask. The local historic association should have a list of contractors who do "like-style" work and are good.
They should also have a listing of masons who are able to duplicate the color and type of mortar and get any type of historic brick you need.
I don't think any HOA expectation is unreasonable. This is what I would consider to be a modern Anderson window manufactured within the last decade.
When I noted like-style and performance I just am not a customer seeking to 'upgrade' to an expensive home-improvement option.
Why not get an anderson 400 and replace it, using local labor?
Becuase every perons I've had over has shied away from trying to more than just a yank and plug solution. I have nothing against Anserson windows, but I'm trying to find a solution that has confidence in handling the complete job. This means also installing through flashing, etc.
I've had plent of folks over here trying to sway away from out right window replacement and then disappearing when their hokie repair attempt proves unsuccessful. The approach of finding a seller+installer came from yesterday's visitor. If you know of someone that you would trust in my neck of the woods, I'd consider separate seller and installer.
Then ask these questions in your area. In a way here you have done that, but the best advice comes from all over the US (and the world for that matter)at Breaktime. Your inquiry is more a local one. Have you tried the Better Business Bureau or the Dept of Consumer Protection in your area? Do you have Angieslist.com down your way? Go to your Anderson or Marvin seller and ask for a licensed installer who offers a guarantee and referrals. Or hell, use Google. Just type in Anderson window sales & installations. When you get to the site, they'll ask an area location via zip-code, then start calling or e-mailing.But to answer your question... No, I don't anyone in Georgia who is a competent, non-replacement window installer. I don't even know anyone in Virginia or Idaho like that.
But...I do know a guy in Bucks County Pa. sitting in his basement office at the moment who could do you well. There's even a big guy in upstate NY around Utica who I bet could do the job. He might even take off his muddy boots when he comes inside.Good luck.
Ok, I'll stop asking here. Thanks.
BTW, I have not used Angieslist.com because after using places like ServiceMagic on this issue in the past six years, or for other items they had proven to be worthless. Since I had not heard a single good thing about Angieslist.com there was no way of telling them apart from lousyServiceMagic. :)
The BB offered no help when I engaged them in 2004 regarding this problem. Using Google leads right back to ServiceMagic and other contractor referral sights. I didn't know if anyone new of a national outfit of door/window products with an installation arm.
Is yours a populated area? Reason I ask, is that it just doesn't make sense that it would be as hard as it seems to be for you to find someone who can competently install a whole double hung window, soup to nuts, especially in this day and age.You asked the BB in 2004. It's almost 2010 now, you might want to try them again.For heaven's sake don't stop asking here about anything. Who knows...you might get a hit.
I live in a county that was ~225,000 strong when I moved here in 1996 and now has ~750,000. I am pretty sure that figure will come down as a lot of it was based on questionables that have now left as all the home building work has gone away.
Still, my problem in this area is there were extremely few locals (natives) and the bulk of transients are looking for the 'once bitten, twice shy' kind of customer. Heck, that culture was in the construction itself in this market.
I agree with others in that you might be better served by a remodeling contractor who knows both masonry construction and window flashing details, but if you are looking for a window installers with certifications, this link might help.
http://www.installationmastersusa.com/certifiedinstallers.html
I specialize in window jobs such as yours, and know of several guy in a pickup type contractors who would be well suited to your project. So they are out there. Many of my friends troll craigslist looking for clients.
I went through the AAMA program, which is two days of class training, and $400.00, so that I could be certified to perform subcontract installs for a local Milgard/Marvin distributor. The training won't make anybody a better installer, but it could lead you (the client) to a contractor who takes their trade seriously.
Hope it helps.
Thank you for the link. I'll put it to some good use.
At this point (ahem, desperation) I am willing to try almost anything (except DIY). The solution attempted next time will be tested immediately with the contractor being still present.
First callback today was "if it involves brick or flashing, we can't help you."
Im suprised there isnt any custom window shops in your area that sell and install their product. I live in KY, we have a window shop we manufacter and install, kinda a ways away from you. Sounds interesting though.
Edited 10/19/2009 9:49 pm ET by phelps86
>...or flashing...<
did this place advertise themselves as a window company?
Wish I knew someone up your way...
Yellow pages listed Renewel by Andersen (windows). Even listed it for my township (Buford, GA), but when you call them they say, "sorry, no dealers in your area." No option to determine, by, phone what the closest area is. Go to web, and learn they do not offer service in my state. So why advertise?
Email response from Replacement Windows of Gergia came via phone and said, "we do not offer service to Buford, GA." Mind you Buford is in Gwinnett County, a county with 750,000 people and part of the greater Atlanta metro area. So, why call youself 'of Georgia' if you can't even serve the greater Atlanta area?
This is what I run into a lot. My hopes are never allowed to 'get up' because I am experienced in being 'let down.' :)
From everything I have read, you are quite firm in what you want, your expectations and understanding of what you want done. Unfortunately today's building trades are essentially sorted into two groups.
One group is there to satisfy the "track homeowner" with big box store products in a "formula" type of process. It's meant to deliver a good, average product at a reasonable cost. Nothing wrong with that but once you vary that "formula" - new brick sills (how are the lintels?), matching mortar colors, etc you are out of their "formula."
The other group is the custom builder/remodeler. They can be found working in historic districts where the guidelines can be stringent. And they are expensive - you are employing people who are deft at custom milling moldings, mortising locks and deadbolts, and even making a sash for a special application.
Atlanta has a thriving historic presence and the local Historic District Commissions can usually guide you to these custom folks. If not, ask them for some reference restorations where you can talk to the homeowner, find out who did the job and if they are satisfied.
This is a lot of work - but I can tell from your responses that you will not be satisfied with a "formula" job. And yes there are masons who speak English - personally I'd prefer them speaking Italian - the best in my area are Italian descent. Good luck!
Let's please not talk about this being a money issue. While I have stated my reservations for spending $30-40K on replacing the entire brick facade, I have on multiple occasions offered blank checks.
BTW, I do not believe my county has a historic district. So much modern (and poor) construction based on transient labor makes for a difficult situation. I will try the Historic District Commissions as you have suggested, once I learn of them. :)
Italian? I've only known two in north Georgia and neither of them speak it. That is one of the things I missed when I moved out of Rhode Island in 1989.
Very simple - 1 minute on Google and here's a starting point:
http://www.georgiatrust.org
1516 Peachtree St NWAtlanta, GA 30309-2916(404) 881-9980
That's a starting point. Another avenue is to dig up some custom molding operations (use business to business yellow pages), call them and ask for some clients of their's who do custom window work.
I'll bet the farm you've got plenty of folks who are qulified and can give you a quote!
I just emailed them, provided the background, complete contact info, etc.
And I just followed up with a phone call. They were not sure if they could help me, but are going to look into it, pass around my contact information, and note desperation means bribe-to-drive.
Edited 10/22/2009 4:51 pm ET by Nuke
It is getting to look like my offer to help out in exchange for a free vacation, might be your best route!>G<
The Historic District is only one avenue of pursuit. There is a wonderful woodworkers supply store in Atlanta - Highland Hardware - and they cater to many custom woodworkers. Stop by their location, find one of their more seasoned folks and pick their brains about local builders.
And another route is to find a local lumber yard that supplies high end product - hardwoods, good grades of softwoods, etc. They sell to custom woodworkers and they can provide you with some names.
And you can always contact some high end window folks - Kolbe & Kolbe, Marvin, etc. and see who they recommend for installers in your area. You don't have to buy that brand of windows but you can certainly use the builders to help you pick the best replacements for your home.
Better to spend the time investingating now because once the job is done, it's final!
The response from http://www.georgiatrust.org were for consultants, and the limited contractors were for commercial properties. But, they said they would pass my story around. Hmm.
I communicated with Ed at Highland Hardware and he knows of someone talented and reliable, but the old cliche of traveling outside of perimeter (as if it were a Berlin style wall) is questionable according to Ed. He's passing my contact info onto him.
I've stated to Ed that if this person he relates to has concerns over travel time and fuel that I would gladly cover it and dinners, too--excuse for me to continue eating out.
On a side note ... I was suppose to be visited by a roofer this afternoon. Appointment was for 4PM. Instead of a doorbell, I get a phone call telling me its a no-go. That they are uncomfortable looking at a roof when it is drizzle and overcast. Its been like this all day, so you gotta love the timing--making me sit.
I also got a little gump and composed an email and sent it into the county's building inspections office. I asked about how they can consider the window area portion of the study not to be considered structural. Seriously, it has floor joists, floor decking, bottom plates, studs, toplates and headers for the windows that form the the bay window area, but I doubt they'll seriously respond to my inquiry.
I thought about visiting the county building inspection office. Its manned for 30 minutes between 7 and 7:30 AM. I think the same chief building inspector is still there and I got his name--county secretary refused his email.
The interesting thing if the county were to visit, change their interpretation as this part of the study is inclusive in the structure (especially considering the county taxes me on it as living space), then I could seek legal recourse against the builder.
A couple of representitives from Exovations (aka Total Exteriors) came out today. They believe they can do the work and warray as such. The only caveat is they would need to sub out the mason work, but it would be covered under any proposed work and warranty. Just waiting on the proposal.
I have not used these folks, but I had a chance to winess them do roofing work in my neighborhood. They do NOT offer roof evaluations for insuarnace claims, which I guess is a good thing for them.
I also asked that they come back on a dry day (its raining) for a general roof proposal cost.
nuke... we'd be right there... and my bet is there are remodeling contractors with the same background as us in your county... you just haven't met them yet
go to a goood lumber yard and ask to speak to the mgr.... tell him/her what you are trying to
this should be remodeling 101 in your area... you have many more brick houses than we doMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
So, I engage a company that advertises themselves as a total solution provider in terms of changing the exterior facade of a home. Siding, doors, windows, roofs, etc., etc., etc.
I call them a week ago last frieday, they set an earliest appointment on last Tuesday, come out and say they can do this "absolutely", and today I get an email saying their lead reports they do not have the expertise to do this kind of work.
I read the email and I heard, "we cannot replace a window, we cannot install flashing of any type with the window removed, we cannot work with brick or even out source it, etc., etc., etc." which is the same story I have been hearing for five years.
Roofers, carpenters, door & window folks, total exterior companies, you name it and they can't do it. Not even with a) a blank check being offered, and b) me willing to put into writing that I understand the end result will be obvious that some brick and certainly the mortar will be visible not the same.
In my county, and those adjacent to me, lacks the courage to do this kind of work. Simply Amazing! But is it? Atlanta is full or questionables for contractors. And if anyone wants to know the name of this "absolutel, we can do this work; NOT" company, please email me.
You chose to go the "formula" contractor route which I originally told you about - and look what you got. If you want a good contractor, you have to do some work - simply responding to ad doesn't cut it. The really good folks in metro areas don't need to advertise - even in today's economy.
I did take the advise and a) contact a historical society, and b) contact Highland Hardware. Unfortunately, they did not pan out. I believe the only suggestion (other than DIY) I have not tried this morning (not including frammers' post that came 10 minutes after your reply) was to visit a lumber yard. I'll try that next.
A google search of Atlanta custom millwork shows a number of businesses. Among them Randall Brothers, Window Concepts, Pierce & Pierce and the list goes on. Calling these people is not sufficient - you have to get out and visit them in person. I sold millworr in a retail environment and I refused to go very far on a phone conversation. You want info, you come see me - I had no idea who was on the other end of a phone - it could be my competition.
try Kentec tools who used to be Stone Mountain Power tool (Kentec bought SMPT) at http://www.kentec.com/contactus.html go in person to the one on Indian Trail and see if thye got any leads for you. I haven't done business with them since long before Kentec bought them out but they were top notch as well as most of teh trades people I met in there. Maybe see if you can leave a note with what you're looking for.
I'd be surprised if any contractors shop much at Highland Hardware. You'd have better luck in the surrounding bars I think.
Nuke,
It is time to take a ride. Take time off work and start huntiing subdivisions near you. When you find a pickup or van with a job sign, stop and talk to the person.
Trust me, you will find someone. In fact if you do this all morning, I bet you will come up with at least 4-5 names of people that are willing and capable of doing what you want.
The key, is be prepared to pay. I know there are people on here that are capable of doing what you want, the problem, they don't come cheap.
Take the time, trust me, you will find someone!
Dave
Thanks for the reply. I can and am willing to do this. I work mostly from home, anyway. I just got cleaned up. But please understand while a ayear to 18 months ago there was a tremendous amount of new home construction in my county, and especially around me, that has all dried up.
In fact, the number of new communities within a 3 mile radius that went bust, and chained their entrances exceed the number of digits on my hands and feet. I have no problems going onto construction sites and chatting, but they are hardly visible anymore.
You don't want the new construction guys, cruise the streets for the guys that clean up the new construction. I have found, the more expensive the house, the sooner you see guys fixing thing!
and a suggestion for places to cruise, go along Paces Ferry from Northside Drive towards B-head. There's a lot of tear-downs with new McMans being built in their place.
And its those same F-head people that refuse to travel outside I-285. If you're outside of I-285 you are outside of GA.
Update ...
During the period I was serving jury duty, a rep from a local millwork shop and one of their better installers came out to my home and looked at my problem. While they agree on the pan flashing during the repair, as well as the altering of the brick sill to angle it better, they were not so ingenuine with installing flashing from the stud wall to the brick wall.
Last night I was up working an activity (work, work, not play) and could hear the rain flood the front side of my home. I knew this would result in water infiltrating into my home, but I thought I had buckets appropriately placed. Wrong!
By 2AM I went down into the study and a couple of gallons of water was on the floor, from the same air gap source between the stud and brick walls, and from the elevation above. I dropped 5-6 large towels to soak up the water and placed the buckets where they should have been.
Also this morning I replied by email to this one and only millwork+installer saying they can fix this problem. The quote the offered me was only for everything but the actual windows ($1675). My reply agreed to this, but as offered I am waiting on a quote for the inclusion of the replacement windows.
On Monday, someone from the county came out and had a look. His immediate, but the recanted answer to my question: is this bay-like window considered to be 'structure'? Initially, he said he felt it was, "it has joists, right?" "Of course, and they support the floor deck, which support the toe plates, which support the studs, which support the double-hung windows, which support the headers, and so on," I said.
So, noting the home was permitted in 1999 he is looking to find which state and county adopted codes were in place at the time of permit. I pointed out a handful of other phase-1 homes that also a) missing the original cap/roof deck structure, and b) above brick opening through-flashing, but his defending response is that they cannot see behind a brick wall.
Umm, I can see this if the cap is on and the ceiling is drywalled inside, but through flashing running from a stud wall to the brick wall should be easily identifiable, no? I can see this elsewhere in my home, and on some other homes as well. Its just missing in this location on my home, and similarly on some other homes.
My end feeling is that these inspectors will not even look for details that are visible. This individual wouldn't even walk across the street to a neighbor's home with an identical missing flashing issue and faultering bay structure. He asked me who the builder was, and I told them (both the original builder name, and then the last builder name), but I doubt that will be of any use to him.
I asked about the individual county building inspector for the various inspections done on my home, and he said that information is available, but only after submitted an Freedom of Information Act request, in person, at the county office. Anyway, hopefully the total quote for windows and labor will not break my bank, but its better than nature's water in my home AGAIN.
You don't need a window replaced.
You need a wall repaired with include masonry, flashing, trim and a new window.
Don't look at any of the window replacement companies. You need a general or remodeling contract. BTW, there is still a good chance that they will use a sub for the brick work.
In fact, it sounds like most of the work is masonry and related (the flashing). You might look at hiring a masonry contractor and they may or may not sub to a carpenter for the window work.
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
Bill, I have yet to meet the first english-speaking mason person. I've never seen, heard, or spoken with one. They all speak Spanish (I think). :)
BTW, the bottom of the existing window has bee repaired twice since 2003. It has deteriorated. I fear trying to remove it to install flashing might be like trying to salvage a window made from toilet paper--when wet.
And one of the repairs was by a so-called general contractor specializing in improvements and storm repairs. That was a joke--another transient. BTW, I have used YellowPages, and again today submitted three more beggings for help.
I wonder what air fare would be to fly someone into Atlanta for this.