Hows that for a broad topic?
Here’s the deal, my father is getting new siding, windows, roof and gutter on his 1960’s ranch. He would like to do the window and siding this year, and the roof (shingles) next year (for cash flow reasons). I don’t know anything about this stuff, because I only pay attention to stuff that is appropriate for my ’20’s bungalow.
For siding, he is considering using either:
1) One contractor to install Integrity by Marvin composite windows and another contractor to install vinyl siding (window contract does not do siding).
Or….
2) Using one contractor to install aluminum clad Marvin windows and HardieBoard cement board siding.
Both vendors are biding to clad the sofits and fascia boards with aluminum.
Questions:
1) Prefer the look of the cement board (although the better vinyl is OK). However, the vinyl has some insulation value with the foam backer. On a fairly poorly insulated house, would the R-4 backing on the vinyl have a noticeable effect on the insulation?
2) Al-clad Marvin vs Integrity: any strong preference for one vs. the other?
3) Does it make more sense to do the gutters with the siding (and soffit/fascia cladding) or with the new roof? House does not currently have gutters in the front, but does in the back so I suspect he should just do them with the siding so as not to have the house sitting without gutters and potentially causing water problems in the basement.
Thanks
Erik
Replies
my 2 cents, (worth what you paid for it by the way),
#1. Roof
#2. Soffitt, Fascia, Gutters
#3. siding, windows, doors
it can be done it any order, but roof tear off runs the risk of damaged siding, windows (screens). The roof done first the flashing details (if any) can be done first and siding applied over it later, as opposed to trying to sneak cards up behind.
Just easier for me, some food for thought, may even be "cheaper" if your subs, or contractor doesnt have to work around finished materials.
Woods favorite carpenter
IMHO, Hardi siding looks a lot better, a lot longer, than vinyl. Whether the additional isulation is "worth it" kind of depends on how insulated & how tight the house is now. Further, if you think you need it, you can install foam under the Hardi if you elect to go with FC.
Also, I'm always wary of cladding existing elements with AL. IME, it looks like carp, and it just hides rot that continues to progress under the AL. And it's always a question whether it'll be vented properly if it's clad. Take a look at the price to R&R the soffit & facia with, say, Azek facia and your choice of soffit, at the same time the roof is done.
+1 for doing the roof first. See reasons stated by previous poster.
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
Everything fits, until you put glue on it.
Makes sense to me. I certainly prefer the look of the fiber/cement products, and they certainly seem worth the small price premium. Adding foam below tha hardie might make the price a bit too high, but I will suggest he look into it. Is the foam applied right over the sheathing and the siding just nailed through the foam? How thick do you normally go, 1"? How does that effect window installation (trim)?
As far as cladding the soffit, I just heard he was going to have that done. I asked why and he said "all the contractors just included that in the bid". I hate it when people in my neighborhood have that done to classic home, so I'm glad you brought up the Azec option. I'll bring that up with him.
The reality is that the house, although in a very nice neighborhood, is not that great a house, so price is certainly an issue. It was originally a 1-story, somewhere in the 60's a second story was added and the quality of that work is not good.
ThanksErik
"Is the foam applied right over the sheathing and the siding just nailed through the foam?"
The siding is nailed through the foam into the studs. Tho' if the sheathing's substantial, missing a stud or two wouldn't be horrible. But it's easier to mess up going over foam, so selection of a good contractor is more important if you go this way.
"How thick do you normally go, 1"?
Again, the real question is what you want/need to end up with and what you have now. Do you *need* an extra R-4? Are the walls already insulated? If so, and done well, adding any foam on the outside may be overkill and not worth it. Probably of more value is to add carefully and properly applied house wrap to cut down on infiltration. Also, see the post above about insulating the attic and/or roof better. You get a lot more bang for your buck on the top than on the sides.
"How does that effect window installation (trim)?"
It's just a factor to take into account when you're ordering the new windows -- the jams are ordered to fit whatever wall thickness you end up with.Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PAEverything fits, until you put glue on it.
The house had blown in celuouse installed in the walls at least two decades ago. However, with 2x4 exterior walls, I'm not convinced more would not be justified in the state of MN. The attic is insulated with fiberglass, if I recall.
Given the money issue, I suspect my parents will go without added insulation and use the FC siding product.
I have suggested he invesitgate replacing the soffit and facia instead of clading
ThanksErik
"Would an R-4 insulation value on the back of the vinyl siding do much on a poorly insulated house?"
Answer...NO.
It would be cheaper and provide better insulative value to the house if you filled in the stud wall cavities with blown-in cellulose from the exterior side of the house , and then installed regular vinyl siding or installed the fiber-cement siding. I imagine the combined material cost of the bags of cellulose insul plus the regular vinyl siding would actually be cheaper than the vinyl with the attached insulation. Now labor cost for installing the blown-in vs just installing the foamed back vinyl may be a different matter. That depends on the contractor and his experience with these products. But the blown-in would definately insulate your house far better...if done right.
You can also help your house a lot just by insulating the attic area. This alone would probably do more good for you than the foamed back vinyl siding.
I'm not a big fan of Marvin windows. If you are going with replacement windows, check out http://www.simontonwindows.com
Simonton's windows are basically vinyl replacements, but they are pretty well made and not too terribly expensive.
The remarks made by the other posters about having the roof work done first were right-on! You may want to re-think the order of how the work should proceed. The last thing done should be the siding work.
Davo