First, thank you all for your help eliminating the funky smell in the crawlspace. The aenerobe-eating compound you recommended really did the trick. This forum is the best!
Since the forum contains so much brilliance, I’m hoping to tap into it again.
Most of the windows in the upper floors of a three-flat building have some sort of water damage: either in the right corners of the stools/sills or to the plaster on the wall under the right corner (I’ve attached photos)
The windows are the new and improved version of the double-hung window (that is, they’re tighly insulated, plastic/fiberglass frame and the sash frame pivots out for easy cleaning). They were installed about five or so years ago. The new windows look okay, but they are z generic, bargain brand. I can’t find a manufacturer name on them.
I can repair the damage top the wood and the walls, but I’d really like to know what’s going on so I can really eliminate the source of the problem.
It’s been suggested that the weep holes aren’t draining and have become plugged. How can I tell if this is the problem?
Thanks again.
Neal
Replies
A faulty installation!
Could you also open the window and give us an exterior shot or two!
Sure would help the e-analysis.
.............Iron Helix
Could also be condensation.
in the winter humid air hits cold window, moisture condenses and runs down interior, rots wood, damages wall.
Mr T
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Are these replacements windows? Meaning that the original exterior and interior trim remained in place?
"Preach the Gospel at all times; if necessary, use words." - St. Francis of Assisi
I had replacement windows put in and the installer didn't drill out the bottoms of the weep holes (don't know why this isn't done at the factory). There were weeps near the bottom edge of the outside frame, and holes in the groove of the frames where the lowered sash went, but not between them, so I just drilled the second hole deeper (until I could feel it break through the vinyl into the channel where the weep hole to the outside was). In several cases water immmediately poured out of the weep hole.
If you're lucky, this is your problem, but I'm thinking they may not have flashed the opening properly before putting the windows in--unless they are the type where only the old sashes were removed and the whole new window units inserted (like mine were), then your problem is possibly plugged or undrilled weep holes.
Lots to respond to...These are replacement windows. It's hard to tell about the original trim. The tops of some of the sills are masonite and others are real wood. Based on this, and the dubious quality of other work done around the building, shoddy installation is quite likely. I will get more photos. Are there specific features to capture that would help in the e-diagnosis?In the hope that it's the weep holes (please let it be the weep holes), I'll poke around and see what that yields.In case it is faulty installation and the flashing was, say, omitted, what do I do?In the meantime, thank you all for sharing your expertise.Neal
Just experienced this with windows that I installed here in Los Angeles this winter, I had one window where I had to replace the exterior trim allowing water to get in-between the trim and the stucco. So it required caulking that small gap between the trim and the stucco. Caulking with silicone caulk in the rain did not work. had to go back and re do it on one of the few dry days we have had. No leaks in that window after that.
it helped that the wall was opened up under that window and it was easier to tell if there was leaking.While on the outside and you are checking your weep holes check out the caulking job they did also.
No profile, but I'm guessing you're somewhere where it gets below 20 in the winter.
Almost certainly the damage is due to condensation on the room-side glass surface during cold weather. Likely the side that the condensation is worst on is the side that's shaded in the PM.
The problem could be unavoidable, or could be due to excessive humidity in the building. Curtains on the windows will make the problem worse, as will keeping those rooms cooler than normal.
The problem can also be made worse by any sort of air leakage in the area, through the window seals, or around the window, between jamb and rough framing.
Edited 3/23/2005 12:58 pm ET by DanH
<<No profile, but I'm guessing you're somewhere where it gets below 20 in the winter.>>That's correct. I'm in Chicago.<<Almost certainly the damage is due to condensation on the room-side glass surface during cold weather. Likely the side that the condensation is worst on is the side that's shaded in the PM.>>Some of the windows have a southern exposure (the surface of the sills) and the others have a western exposure (the peeling plaster under the window). <<The problem could be unavoidable, or could be due to excessive humidity in the building. Curtains on the windows will make the problem worse, as will keeping those rooms cooler than normal.>>The windows have plastic mini-blinds.<<The problem can also be made worse by any sort of air leakage in the area, through the window seals, or around the window, between jamb and rough framing.>>That could be a possibility. I'll check around for air leakage. If that is the case, what's the fix?Thanks.Neal
Well, obviously, check for obvious air leakage. But try to find out if the humidity in the building is too high for conditions. Note that a relative humidity of 40% is "ideal" down to around 30-35 degrees, and then drops about one % for every two degrees of temp below 30-35. With "normal" construction and double-glazed windows, if you stick with that approximate rule (there are charts somewhere that are better) then condensation will be modest. If humidity is much higher then severe condensation can result.Also, like I indicated, anything that causes the "microclimate" near the window to be colder -- tight curtains, closed-off room kept cooler, air leakage around windows, etc -- can significantly increase condensation.
This is probably a dumb question, but what's the best way to measure the humidity?
A humidity meter (which has some fancy name that I can't recollect). Available at any hardware store, though most are a tad inaccurate.
CRS just struck me too..hygrometer sounds about right.
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I'm throwing out something to check only because here in S. Florida, I correct many aluminum windows with the same exact result - efflorescence or worse on the plaster.
Check the jamb of the window where it meets the sill. See if there is a sealant there or a sponge type product used as a gasket..
Also, see if there is a sill raised channel that is overlapped by a side jamb channel. That overlap should also have a sealant.
The second floor picture sure looks like condensation. But the third floor could also be failure of the flashing of the remaining original jamb. It could be that the windows were leaking, and somebody decided to trash the sash and put in replacements, not bothering to find out where the actual leak was.
-- J.S.
Given the poor quality of the work around the rest of the building, I would tend to share your suspicion.How do I confirm that that's the problem?How do I repair it if that's it?Thanks.
If this were a ground floor window, I'd test it by taping visqueen over the outside, well sealed to the jamb. Then squirt it with water from a hose, spraying upward and letting it fall like wind driven rain. If it leaks, then it's the flashing around the old jamb. If not, it's the push-in replacement unit.
But this being on the third floor, and given that the plaster inside is already damaged, I'd probably pull the casing trim and do some exploratory demo. Watch it during a rain storm and see where it's coming from.
-- J.S.