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Chris:
The other respondents offer some valuable insights. My view on the matter is that you want to pull 2 Cat5 or better wires along with 2 RG6 coax wires. Make all runs “home runs” to either the attic, basement or wiring closet (in a den, office or garage). You don’t need conduit, PVC or otherwise, if you believe that combo of wires is going to be OK for the foreseeable future. And, except for the most techno-aware gadget freaks, that’s a pretty safe assumption. If you are one of those freaks, then run PVC to the termination point and boxes. Some forethought will allow you to pull out the outdated wires and replace with the latest in plasmo-fiber-neuro-optic-gelatin waveguides when they’re invented.
Proper termination and attention to crossing AC paths is imperative. Stay away from metallic conduit because of the high possibility of induced noise (although this may seem counter-intuitive).
Good luck!
TPB
Replies
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>I have seen open frames with the conduit drop close behind. No need for a closed box.
>And as for 100mb, install those RJ45's carefully! And do you really need it? A full T-1 runs at 1.4mb anyway.
>Cheers, Kurt
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All this fire stuff sure sounds like a selling point for steel.
RG-8 is a new one on me. The plenum cable is like double in cost, isn't it? The jacket costs more than the wire. I remember when I wired an office Ethernet years ago money was tight ... not sure I used the plenum wire or not.
*Now, 100 mb will be stone age in like five years, given the exponential growth of technology. Your neighbors will be saying, what? you don't have terabaud infrastructure?A Luddite at heart, ad
*Why would you wana run metal conduit for low voltage wire when the 120/220v stuff is just bare in the wall? (at least in my geography) I've heard that in Chicago, all AC must be run in conduit.The plenum grade wire was roughly 35% more $ for my recient install. Plenum grade cable is stiffer than regular - that's one way to recognize it.
*Chicago requires metal conduit because it is backward (sorry Bill!). The trades, according to Bill, have resisted change. My thinking wiht the metal conduit was to attempt RF (and 60 Hz buzz) shielding. But for me I'm sure it's not worth the trouble to use conduit at all.
*For general info: RG6 is a 75 ohm coax that is slighly larger diameter than RG59 and it has somewhat less loss that RG59. This less loss is really only significant with very long runs (much more than 100 ft) Having less loss it also has less "tilt" ie; the loss at the lower end of the band will be closer to the loss at the higher end of the band, this being important in large distribution systems such and your local cable tv system. RG6 has become a standard in the cable tv industry and they use a very good shielded version with very low radiating connectors. They are under very tight rules of the FCC about radiation of their signals that can interfere with other services and as such anyone who is putting in their own cable runs in houses/apartments should make them compatible with the cable systems and they should use the correct connectors and splitters. If you have a system that radiates too much the cable system WILL cut your service off. The cable systems all survey their systems for radiation and they can measure it from a passing truck or even aircraft.RG8 is a 50 ohm coax that is used in radio transmitter/receiver systems.class dismissed.
*gstringe:Are you saying that there splitters that are specifically made for use with RG6 cabled video applications? Is interferience between RG6 viedo and UTP cat5e cabling a concern? Is there a minimum seperation distance that should be observed during install of the 2 medias?
*Matt,As far as I know there is no problem bundling RG6 and Cat5 together. There are "structured cabling" systems that incorporate multiple RG6, Cat5 and 14 guage speaker wire all in one jacket.Steve
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I'm incorporating a LAN / Home Automation system in a new construction home and don't know what the latest trend is in wiring these systems. I'll be wiring it myself. I've heard Cat 5 cable is the way to go -- as easy as running "regular" phone wire. Not knowing what the near future holds, I'm hesitant to run the wire directly through the studs and close it up. I've heard that running the wire through PVC conduit in the walls is good insurance for future technology, allowing the ability to easily upgrade to fiber optic cable, for example.
What are your experiences? If I go with PVC conduit, what's an appropriate size? 1/2", 3/4", or 1"? Is there an approved method to "connect" PVC in-wall conduits to outlet boxes?
*Chris,There was a thread on this topic not too long ago. Check the archives.I am currently building "my" house. I have run two 1/2" PVC conduits from a point on the outside of the foundation under the slab to the end wall of a closet. One is for cable TV and one is for telephone service. In the closet I will have a simple wooden box with a 3/4" plywood back recessed between the studs. This box will be a panel for a small phone punch board and cable splitters. All lines will home run to this box.I will be running a 1/2 conduit to the adjacent home office just in case there is a major change in PC and/or phone technology requiring new wireing. I am going to risk it and use regular cable and 4 pair phone lines to the rest of the house.All of the plastic PVC conduit compatable (direct glue) boxes I have seen are for outside use. I will be using a metal box in the home office. The PVC conduit will end in a common plastic fitting with a male tread on the end. The conduit will be secured to the box with a threaded locking ring. All of this is available at your local home center. I am betting 1/2" will be adequate. The cost to upgrade to 3/4" is marginal. Think 1" is overkill. Rigid PVC conduit can be hard to work with. Your options are straight and 45 or 90 degree turns. It can be difficult to run horizontally through studs. You may want to look a the flexable conduit that is available. It comes in two forms, a grey waterproof variety for outside use and a blue, slinkey looking version. Depending on your situation, the blue stuff may be a good choice.Good luck.
*Try http://www.gohts.com/home/ -- they have a lot of background info and I think decent prices.Allowing for future wire pulls is a good idea, though I have a feeling more and more things are going to go wireless. There is something beyond Cat 5 -- 5e? -- but buy what you need, the cost gets pretty high! Getting Cat 5 to run at full speed, 100 MHz+, can be difficult -- a kink in the wire is enough to defeat its high speed capability. I have a 10/100 MHz connection between two Macs that runs at 10 MHz, which is still quite fast ... when I get around to it maybe I'll try for 100.Do I recall an electrician saying PVC conduit should not be used indoors because of fire/toxicity? I'm not sure. Metal conduit could be grounded for shielding. But I'm just thinking of running the wires in uninsulated spaces through pipe brackets spaced every few feet, no staples, so that it would be easy enough to pull a line when the need arises without all the needless hassle of conduit. The key thing is to stay away from electrical cables, esp. the unshielded NM.
*Chris:I just did a similar prewire in a house that I am building. First I did some homework. Then, this is the way I attacked it:I visited a supply house called "Communication Supply Corp." I think it's a national company. There I picked up a nice, metal, flush mount panel box that included 2 punchdown circuit boards, one for phone, one for data (LAN). A blank area was provided for the mounting a video splitter. $60 for the box which is about 14" W x 12" x 3". I also got face plates for the individual rooms with 2 or 3 holes for snap in modular jacks that come in RJ11 (phone), RJ45 (LAN) and coax (video) flavors.Next I went to Home Whatever and picked up a 1000' spool of cat5e cable for about $65, and a 500' spool of GR6 video coax cable. I couldn't imagine that I'd need the 1000' but ended up using a large portion of it and most of the video cable too. Also got some PVC conduit and conduit connectors.Mounted the panel in a closet, ran 3, 1" PVC conduits down from the box through the bottom plate and into the crawl. Then 2 more conduits up into the attic from the box to service the bonus room and any possible antenna/satellite connections.Mounted regular plastic single gang boxes in the rooms and started pulling cable. The 1" conduits going down to the crawl ended up being almost stuffed full. I was careful to keep the cable I pulled away from AC wires, no sharp bends, and loosly stapled.OK, so I didn't do the conduit in the individual rooms so upgrades may be more difficult. I really didn't even consider it as my house is stick built and about 85% of the walls have a double joist under them. The thing is though, that cabling systems have a longer life cycle than, say, computers. At this time, I don't believe that any newer cabling technology than cat5e has been identified that is in common use in homes. Besides, I think Andrew is right about wireless technologies.So, for about $200 I'm confident this system will be adequate for voice, data and video for at least 5 years to come. Cat5 can easily support 100MB LAN speeds which are not yet in common use in homes but will be soon. I used the cat5 for the phone lines too, as long as I had 1000'. The RG6 coax supports satellite and supposedly HDTV. I think maybe cable modems too, but once again, they are not yet in common use in the home, so who knows what will be needed? Don't really know anything about home automation - sorry but I think it's just a bunch of fancy gadgetry that I don't need.Chris, as far as you question, "Is there an approved method to "connect" PVC in-wall conduits to outlet boxes? " not sure exactly what you mean but basically, you get the boxes that are made to mate up with the conduit and just glue it up like waste pipe. Andrew:I you make some good points but I think your mistaken in your statement that "Getting Cat 5 to run at full speed, 100 MHz+, can be difficult". 100 MBS (mega bits per second is the correct term) LANs work fine on cat5.
*I can't find any reason against PVC inside...I agree 100 is doable, just noting that it can be messed up if you're sloppy. I haven't gotten 100 MHz yet because I haven't bothered to try -- just ran a wire down the hall so I could update my wife's iMac quickly. They come with 10/100 installed, and a card for the other machine was something like $39.Otherwise I'm not much interested in spending money on this stuff. you can spend a lot! A surge protector is a good investment, I here stories of people losing the entire system in the blink of an eye.
*I just took a clas on installing this stuff.Cat6 is being developed as we speak. But I too think Wireless is where it's going. The new iBook from Apple has wireless gizmo as an option that allows 10 of themem to access the internet via a wireless 11Mbs connection to a base unit that is hardwired to the phone line. The iBook can then roam up to 150 feet from the base and have wireless internet access.Anyway, back to the wiring, it's imperative not to kink or pinch it. Cross AC a 90 angles and stay at least 2" away from it when running parallel to it.Also, when wiring the jacks and stuff, no more than 1/2 inch of the twisted pairs should get unwound, or you reduce the interference resistance.I'm pulling 2 Cat5 and 2 RG6 to two locations in each room that might have a computer or TV. Leave the cable unfastened where they enter the outlet box so you can let the excess fall back into the wall rather than get a kink.Steve
*Chris:The other respondents offer some valuable insights. My view on the matter is that you want to pull 2 Cat5 or better wires along with 2 RG6 coax wires. Make all runs "home runs" to either the attic, basement or wiring closet (in a den, office or garage). You don't need conduit, PVC or otherwise, if you believe that combo of wires is going to be OK for the foreseeable future. And, except for the most techno-aware gadget freaks, that's a pretty safe assumption. If you are one of those freaks, then run PVC to the termination point and boxes. Some forethought will allow you to pull out the outdated wires and replace with the latest in plasmo-fiber-neuro-optic-gelatin waveguides when they're invented.Proper termination and attention to crossing AC paths is imperative. Stay away from metallic conduit because of the high possibility of induced noise (although this may seem counter-intuitive). Good luck!TPB
*The iBook couch potato communication option is what got me thinking about this. It's interesting how often Apple introduces technology first. Don't worry the PC makers with have a clone within a year or so that will work until the gov't gives Microsoft more trouble. If it does, Bill may pull the plug on us all.
*What do the Sony Betamax (sp?) and Apple have in common?
*A: They are both still the preferred tool in their respective professional content creation markets because they are better than the mass consumption alternatives.
*Isn't Betamax SP like the preferred high quality video camera? Like $10,000+ each?As for all you who worry about market share: is Mercedes inferior to Ford because it makes so few cars? There's a market for both.
*One of the instructors in a wiring class I took claimed PVC emitted toxic gases. I just did a quick search of the web and found very little information. According to an article defending against a Greenpeace attack on PVC contributing to deaths in a fire - at http://www.ping.be/chlorophiles/Eng/answ/PVCDusFire.html -there is some toxic release, but not as much as with a lot of other substances. If you happen to be worried about your mice, according to http://www.rio.com/~plastmo/firepvc.html,"Toxic Gas in Combustion (16min)- mice live 2 minutes longer (16min) in PVC smoke than wood smoke". BTW there are several types of cat5 (and similar) wiring depending on flammability. You got your regular. You got your riser. And you got your plenum. (There is at least one other than I can't recall.) The plenum is the most fire resistant (and the most expensive) followed by riser. What is this RG-6 you guys are pulling? Wouldn't be RG-8 in disguise, would it?