A recent posting in another thread got me wondering. I have only worked around two women in the trades, both were painters, and I think I remember seeing a female plumber years ago in some tracts in Irvine. I seem to have read more about women in the trades in FHB or other trade publications than I have actually seen. Maybe its the area I live in? Most of my career has been spent in Santa Barbara, CA. My intention is merely to find if maybe more women choose a trade as a career in certain areas of the country than others.
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Most of my work experience is around union commercial jobs rather than residential. I work in rural New York. I can't remember seeing any female workers in the carpenter, pipefitting, millwright, mason, or laborer fields, but have seen several in the IBEW (electrician) union. In manufacturing (as opposed to construction) I've seen journeyman mechanical tradesworkers, too.
I've seen women on road construction crews, but few.
Still, the proportion of women in the trades around here seems to be very small.
"I've seen women on road construction crews, but few."
You could tell them apart?
Woman was the one holding the sign, LOL
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
The sign-holders are all Latino in appearance in my neck of the woods.
We have 3 women on our crew of about 90 between side by side highrise condo's in Western WA.
I think there is 3 electricians, 4 firecaulkers, 1 sprinkler fitter, & 2 carps.
So, three women are doing the work of ten men?
Don't be surprised.
I lived with a woman, yrs. ago in Fl., who did hvac. I've worked with a few doing remodeling in Fl. and DC, know of others. In DC I worked with women project managers from various sub and general contractors, heard of more. Company I was pm at did commercial carpentry. We had up to 150 carpenters in the late 80's. Don't recall any women.
I've worked several women surveyors down here in Texas. Helpers and gunners. Trained a couple as PC's. With the new equipment options it's not nearly as physical...except for blue-topping.
only women here is the occasional wife, but thats even rare. I beleive the second time I've ever seen it was a couple weeks ago I bid a job for the Division of forrestry and this guy and his wife show up to bid as i was leaving found out later he got the job. she must work cheaper than my helper. :)
Hi bluejae,
I have only worked around two women in the trades,intention is merely to find if maybe more women choose a trade as a career in certain areas of the country than others.
My wife didn't purposefully choose a trade but......with our last house.....built, wired, plumbed, drywalled....you name it "we" did it "all".....my best half worked with me to frame it....once we had it dried in we'd go by of an early morning.....I'd give her more tasks to fulfill than anyone could possibly do correctly......I'd go off to service client jobs......come back in the late afternoon and she was done with her list better than was possible with anyone else every time and she'd be cleaning up. Saturday's we'd work 14-16 hours and Sunday mornings she'd be up early puttin' on the ritz....high heels, dress....the works......fantastic lookin' gal....we'd head off to church and have a wonderful dinner....gracious... grubby jeans to heels in less that 24 hours.....that's my kinda carpenter.....
I taught her everything I knew and even taught her the stuff you fella's taught me and now every time we go in a new home under construction she gets frustrated at the lack of quality work being done.....she could teach most of them a thing or two about the construction industry......she claims I've ruined her.....notices every single problem detail now....
Pedro the Mule - I'll keep this trades-woman
I would think that in larger cities there's an opportunity for an outfit specializing in female plumbers, painters, et al, so that women's restrooms, locker rooms, etc could be maintained "first shift".
you see a lot of women in construction from the sales side of it, heavy equipment, tools sales, fastener, rental tool, day labor,concrete sales. You also see alot of woman dump truck driver, they take care of the truck better.
Thanks for the replies, cant say I was looking for any particular answer, just curious.
I know I'm up late but I had to reply.
The problem I've seen with women in the trades is more like, the kids and tounge droolers, become worthless, they will trip over themselfs to help the lady out while they left you lugging the tub/shower up the stairs without help!
Anyway that's the main problem I've ever seen with trained women on the job. It's more, boys letting the wrong head do the thinking.
Please note: No foam things are in any pictures I post. just check for yourself :-)
A lack of humor is a................ That's all I'm about to get in trouble.
It is a shame that all the people who really know how to run this country, and run it right, are busy, cutting hair, driving taxi's and trucks! I believe George Burns said something to that effect.
I couldn't agree more. The girls just want to learn and do it too.
121095.15 in reply to 121095.14
I couldn't agree more. The girls just want to learn and do it too.
Well most girls do, for the most part but there are always some.....
It is a shame that all the people who really know how to run this country, and run it right, are busy, cutting hair, driving taxi's and trucks! I believe George Burns said something to that effect.
Not many that I know are hands on carpenters as a living. I work with some who are artist-painters.
Some years back I worked a big union restoration job up along the Hudson. I was foreman for the plasterers & there was a ton of carps there, one being a girl. She was really nice and tried (I think overly so) to be "one of the guys" and the guys protected her like she was their kid sister. The only problem was...she was really a horrible mechanic.
Plastering works along side the carpenters since they do most of the lathing. I was constantly having to bring back the shop steward to make corrections and the mistakes just about all came back to her.
I had been a carpenter by that time for over 20 years, so I knew the problems and how to correct them. Trouble is, I was in a different union and in the union you gotta stick to your territory and just zip it.
It was very frustrating.
Beginning in the mid 70s I've worked in IA, WA, CO, AZ, and MT.
Females in the trades I've met are: 1 plumber, 1 electrician, 1 finish carp, 1 sheetrock finisher and a few painters, never a framer.
IMO, women, as a collective, don't earn equal pay because they don't do equal work.
"IMO, women, as a collective, don't earn equal pay because they don't do equal work."No, they beat the guys at it!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I've met several female painters, a taper, a carpenter (after she left the field to pursue an engineering degree) and a concrete laborer who could beat the snot out of just about anybody I can think of.
I have also worked with 2 woman concrete finishers.
One was a "sack and patch " specialist. the other did flat work . I have also worked with woman painters, crete truck drivers, hardwood floor layers and finishers, electricians and tile setters.
Town I live in has had a woman BI for about 18 years now, she knows her shid , very few BI's I have met know the code like she does.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
There's a female electrical inspector that I've dealt with quite a bit. Always pleasant but clearly authoritative in her interactions on the jobsite. Also dealt with a female BI in a neighboring city that was not pleasant. Big chip on her shoulder and generally hostile to tradesmen and homeowners.
I really could not count the number of women I have seen in the trades, from concrete, thru carpentry, to painting or even project management. And having worked in several areas of the country, I don't think it is a regional thing, if that is what you were looking for.
I do think that the female workers are better at detail tasks like painting or trim crpentry than men are. They also seem more capable of multi-tasking, like talking WHILE they work, whereas a man has to stop working to tell a joke.
I have seen three all female crews. One was concrete oiutfit, one a foundation waterproofing service, and one a landscape contractor. I think they are somewhat more comnfortable that way handling the oogle boys and smart-mouth as a group. But the fact that many of them seem to need that to enter construction work tells us that we have a ways to go to get full integration.
As far as women not being as tough, I wish I had a picture of the woman who was a barefoot roofer with a missing tooth I met once.
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Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
Piffin,
I knew I liked you
Luv
Mrs. Jet
For a second I thought you were talking about me when you mentioned the barefoot roofer, but i have all my teeth. I roofed my own house, with some help from hubby and teenaged son, working barefoot most of the time. If you work barefoot and there are nails laying on the roof you don't stomp them into the shingles before you realize it. Also, if it's too hot to work barefoot, you know it's too hot for the shingles to be walked on without damage. Only time I ever injured myself from stepping on a nail I was wearing heavy workboots.
bump
Hi Dave! Thanks for thinking of me. How's life treating you? We're holding up. I'm doing a couple of days a week of handylady stuff. I feel very lucky that if I had to, I could walk around the neighborhood and find someone with something that needed fixing. (Your average CEO can't say that, but in their case, they would be looking for someone who had a business they needed to be pillaged and run into the ground!) I planted a BIG vegetable garden this year...my husband says I make work for myself, but that's what people are doing who have worked 40+ hrs a week most of their lives and suddenly have a lot of time on their hands. The idea is to have food to eat (duh) and be able to share with the local food bank and our friends and family. Thinking about getting a couple of chickens...do you have any good ideas for coops?
Mebbe FH could do an article about environmentally friendly, designer chicken habitats... Where you're at is growing country...hopefully you have a couple of 'mater plants in your yard to put some home grown lycopene in your sammiches :)Take care...Whatever works...
That's it? No comments to the peanut gallery about Women in Construction?
be a handylady
Since you've some extra time on yer hands you could build a dome coop for theose egglayers. Start with 105 2ft long 2x2s, a circular saw, nailgun and add osb.
Edited 6/9/2009 12:54 pm ET by rez
You asked for it!The other women I've met in construction were pretty tough, and just as with anyone else, if you can't hang with the work, you get out. Once on a bridge job, the hall sent out two finish carps. They quit by the end of the day. (not saying anything bad about finish carps) Carrying wet 16 foot 4x4s up and down dirt hills all day or across I beams 20 feet over a concrete floor isn't for everyone. On a jobsite, you keep your head down, do the work, don't complain and don't get hurt (like anyone else) You don't have to be pretty or have a charming personality if you are a good worker. The carpenters you get to work with certainly have interesting personalities."Joe" had me carry a full 5 gal of gas across a 100 ft bridge.
He wouldn't let me load it in a truck to take it over. That same foreman had tears in his eyes the day they laid us apprentices off.An old journeyman in his 70's named "Hank"s hands were crooked from years of using a hand saw etc. and called everyone either "Bone head" or "numnutz" One day I was cutting 2x4 kickers for him as he was down in a hole building a form. One that I tossed down bounced and hit him in the leg. He started to tell me off, but stopped when he saw the look on my face. Makes me a little teary. What is it about spending 40 hrs a week with people working in the mud, heat and cold?That's my story.
Yeah, when things get tough I think of digging mud out of a hole in the freezing rain. When time is short I go into dry-in mode; rains coming gotta get last sheets down on this roof, felt, protect equipment and get off this f-king roof NOW!
Been in the same high pressure sits. with women; they rock. They get it.
Pedro spoke well of his woman, I can say the same for mine. She's helped me on a couple of house re-builds, down to foundation and frame and re-birth to a new finish. She hangs with the best. At 5' she's amazingly strong. For heavy s**t, I let the young bucks show how strong they are, I did that, I've done and will do anything I ask of them.
I've been blessed by knowing many a strong woman.
I truly feel sorry for guys that need to put down a whole group of people to assert their confidence.I may suck; but at least I'm a man.
I may be poor but at least I'm not black, spic, mic, wop, pollock, whatever. Half my life I spent trying to get out of construction because of such worship of ignorance. But I like the work and I'm good at it. And the quiet old guy in the corner amazes me.You think women are weak; imagine what they do.
You think women air frivolous; take a look at our manly pursuits.True, if those are the type you are looking for, you'll find plenty.
As a bartender I'd shake my head at women with a similar problem; they'd come in saying ALL MEN are a-holes, describe the perfect, funny, intelligent, sensitive guy. Then leave with the biggest A-HOLE
in the place.I'm getting too old... Respect, context, manners, common-sense(!?)....
"digging mud out of a hole in the freezing rain" LOL
When things get tough, I think about stripping wall panels inside a 4 ft tall tunnel wading through 5" of raw sewage when I was 3 months pregnant!
That's why I would never leave this work...not because I like working in raw sewage, but because it keeps things in perspective. A nice shower at the end of a hot dirty day, and a glass of ice cold water take on new meaning. You learn your limitations, and you learn that the first time you screw something up big and have to fix it, that you're not infallible, and to be more careful.There's a book that I'm waiting to read called "Shop Class as Soulcraft:An Inquiry Into the Value of Work, the Case for Working With Your Hands" by Matthew B.CrawfordWomen and men keep society from falling apart. I learned that men love their families, and work until they drop. Women do the same in their own way. We're a lot alike, and there's a lot to like and admire in both of us. There are silly "girly" girls and the men attracted to them who need someone helpless to look after to make themselves feel big and strong; and women like me who look for a man who needs someone to take care of them. (like my dear husband)
It was good to hear your take on things...Whatever works...
Mrs. Jet here,
Yes I've totally hyjacked his post (But he started it)Jencar I would love to meet you (are you planning to fest this year?)
Anyone who has met me knows I've spent my life in the kitchen (For you NASCAR lovers, bear foot and pregnant, everyone else, I hate shoes and have beautiful boys) I'm the only woman working in a all male restaurant kitchen, and I've been doing that since 1985. There have been times in my life I honestly didn't think I had the strength to put away another 50lb box or tenderize 200lbs plus of chicken breasts. Will the boys admit that?I live by a rule: If you can do the job, I don't give a mices behind what is hanging between your legs..........or NOT!!!!!!!!!
Do the boys live by that rule?
Hi Mrs Jet!
I was a waitress for a while, and an under-appreciated full time mom/housekeeper/cook/groundskeeper/bookkeeper/zoo keeper
Both are demanding, hard, mostly thankless jobs.
Difference with being a carpenter is that I got prevailing wages with benefits.What separates the men/women from the boys/girls is accepting that you will have to push yourself beyond your comfort level on a daily basis.
Can tell that you're familiar with that concept!Where is Fest this summer? We're going out to Kansas City MO to
visit my family there at some point.
Seem to remember that you guys are in Canada?
My wife was a super for Centex when there was a Centex. She seemed to have just the right mix of skills for that type of work. It is mostly scheduling and knowing what something looks like when it is right anyway along with that unique ability to get people to do their job.
She must have been pretty good at it since she usually came close to doubling her salary in bonuses, based on quality inspections, on time, on budget and customer surveys.
> and knowing what something looks like when it is rightSo how the heck did she end up with you?? (VBG)
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
Yes we are in Canada. The fest is in Yelm WA.The week-end of Aug. 8th. We are making it into a two week trip out west to visit family, and friends on both sides of the border.
It's fun to put some faces to some names, and the conversations are a little quicker, but they still go off on tangents ;-)Mrs. Jet
We'll alert the border patrol to be on the lookout for you.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
Yeah, remember to bring your passports.
My husbands bro and his family live up near Seattle...been a while since we've been up to see them.
I'll have to see who I can get to water our garden while we're gone.
"Your average CEO can't say that, but in their case, they would be looking for someone who had a business they needed to be pillaged and run into the ground!)"I thought of you in this topic but hoped for the kind of intelligent comment you used to make instead of what I quote above. That is like someone who says the only women who make it to the top in any industry does it by flirting and screwing her way up the ladder. We all know there may be a few who do, but to paint all with the same broad brush is ....well, you slopped some paint on yourself!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I guess I didn't put the smiley face at the end of that sentence.
This is better discussed in another thread...but greedy CEOs are one of the reasons we (construction workers, office workers, waiters, business owners, auto industry workers) are screwed, now that you mention it. I have no pity for them. Hope your knees are holding up...
I confess, I don't get every joke that comes my way. I'm a bit stoopid that way.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
You're not stupid at all! I guess I could've picked a better example...
An out of work waitress can't exactly go door to door asking people if they need any food served, etc.
I'm as guilty of generalizing as any one else...
I knew that;)Funny you bring up the out of work waitress.
That is how that success story starts about the gal who ended up as a project manager.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Hey...I thought of you as I was explaining to a cabinet guy why he shouldn't use 3" drywall screws to hang stuff on the wall (got a big old blank stare for my trouble) I went back later and took them out one at a time and put in cabinet screws.
Hi bluejae...
Our fine friend, woodworker and connoisseur of vinyl (rez) just gave me a nudge...
In the LA area and have been a carpenter for almost half of my life. I have a husband (my 3rd) 3 kids and 2 grandkids.
I helped build 13 of those bridges up in SB, and spent 2 weeks on a band saw cutting out all the forms for the arches under the State St bridge. Got my journeyman card on that job.
Have more tools than I can ever use. (but I need them all) I can comfortably crawl under a house, in an attic, or work on a roof. Think most people don't believe I'm a carpenter until they see me hang a door or tear out a wall, and maybe still don't believe it. I don't care...it feels like this is what I've always done,and will keep doing it until I can't pick up a Skilsaw anymore!
Did the fires come near your neighborhood? It's so beautiful up there, so sad when it burned.
Nice to meet you, Jen
Nice to meet you too. I ride my bike under that bridge often, now I can tell my wife, "Hey I know the lady who built this." Yes the most recent fire got close enough to force our evacuation, which oddly enough worked out since we had to go out of town that day anyway. Our place is fine and a friend had an extremely close call, her neighbor was not so fortunate.
Edited 6/9/2009 8:55 pm ET by bluejae
I've had two women on my crews over the years. One soldered very well and was fearless up on the roof or scaffolding. The other drove the two speed rear end dump truck better than anyone else I ever put in it.
When I worked highway construction, there were quite a few females flagging and driving heavy equipment.
I see more women on commercial crews than residential.
On another note: My local ABC Supply manager is female and quite a bit of the construction supply sales force around here is female.
http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
A friend of mine is a female union carp. Was in Western PA, now in WV.
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
Everything fits, until you put glue on it.
I worked around and had lady carpenters as a partner. One was excellent and could do anything most men could do. She also acted like a lady except when some #### had a smart remark. She wasn't beyond knocking a guy out with a couple of good punches. Over the years I actually had three women for partners. One girl I could not stand. She always had an excuse why she didn't have her toolbox with her. The day I was made foreman I asked for her check.I not only couldn't lay her off, they put her in my gang.The third girl was a 1st day apprentice,nice kid. She was very shy at first, fast learner but needed to get a little muscle. I saw her several years later, she added some weight and could pull her own weight too.
Over all despite being a male chauvinist at first, I have to say most of the ladies I met in the trades were hard working and just plain nice people.
mike
"One girl I could not stand. She always had an excuse why she didn't have her toolbox with her." At least she had tools. One guy I worked with briefly (thankfully) literally didnt own a hammer. He was supposed to be a cab installer. What a friggin hack.
One of the first things they told us in little apprentice school was "if you show up on a job without your tools, you might as well go home"