Hello All,
We are about 3/4ths of the way thru our foundation-slab replacement job and for the most part we’ve been really happy with the work the contractor has done. Today I walked around and took a look at a couple of things and a couple of things strike me as odd. Now I’ll be completely happy if ya’ll say I’m picking nits that would be great but please take a look at the following pics and give me your opinion. After I get a consensus from the experts I’ll have a calm reasonable conversation with the contractor about said issues.
First up is this 4by6 beam that’s hung off the garage header and supports the joists for the porch on one side and the stair stringer on the other.
A closer look.
To me this looks like they cut those joists to short and had to make it up with a plywood spacer? To me this looks wonky-what do y’all think?
Second up- The new landing and 6 stairs they built. First off I gotta say that they want $2400 for this work which seemed steep to me. I told the carp that it better be a super grade a job for that kind of money and he assured me it would be. That he would use all vertical grain clear doug-fir. This is what I ended up with (he did this while we were gone for xmass)
Here’s an inside shot showing the ACQ stringers and plastic wood risers. For an exterior application I would think that all six sides of the wood would be primed and the cut part of the ACQ stringer would be primed also-they are not. I was also informed that I would have to caulk the stairs which seems like something the carp should be doing.
Here’s a shot of the underside of the landing.
Here’s something that I think might be wonky. The landing he built again appears to be 1/2″ short and he used plywood spacers? Is this okay to do?
These last two pictures deal with how they sistered on new 2by10 joists to the back part of the house. The existing joists are 2by8’s that broke over an interior loadbearing wall that was moved to the middle of the span.
Does the sistering job look okay?
The SE calls for 4by6 headers in openings less than 4′. This is a header in a loadbearing wall with two floors above it. Should this header be orientated so the 6″ side is taking the load not the 4″ side?
And here’s just a shot of the rebar grid tied up and ready for pouring(after we get the pex in)
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Edited 1/6/2008 8:51 pm by madmadscientist
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Replies
your working on a old house with what looks like full 2" 2x's. so to get even in some places it takes a 2x and 1/2 ply.i think that is what alot of the 1/2 ply is doing,at least he didn't shim with osb.
if this was a new house some of this wouldn't fly for me . when your messing with a old saggy house ,coming down onto a new foundation,i would expect a lot of shim's and creative ways to make it work.
the one thing i would not like is the 4x6 header laying on it's side,i'd rather hac 2x4 standing on edge than that.if there is 2 floors above tha i do think it needs flipped.larry
if a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?
The spliced wire in pic 7 doesn't look right.
In the first pic, unless I'm not seeing it right, the simpson hangers don't look right. The 4x6 header has two different end conditions. If it is being supported by the two side members, then the left side is ok but the angle straps on the right are wrong. But I can't see the side ears on the left side bracket, so I'm not sure what's going on there. The three hamgers for the 2x joists look like they are one size too small for the joists.
Here's an inside shot showing the ACQ stringers and plastic wood risers. Doesn't look like acq to me. Looks like old wood.
"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Yea that wire hasnt been energized since we bought the place everyone just keeps workign around it...
The 4by6 is supposed to be hung from the joist hanger at both ends the one end on the left its attached to the garaged door header. The other end is supposed to be joist hangered with the same hanger to a new 4by6 beam installed just for that reason.
Is whats done then not a good idea?
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
There isn't anything wrong with the way that beam is hung at top of the stairs.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Daniel I think it looks like good efficient work. Have a cold beer and relax, not wonky in my book.------------------
"You cannot work hard enough to make up for a sloppy estimate."
I think you are lucky to have found someone who could make it work... is it done the best it could be? maybe maybe not.. when you are dealing with old structures and making them do something they were not designed to do... and chances are they were under built from the start.... the guy doing the work is designing on site... if you wanted... you could have always hired an engineer got a ton of drawings that might or might not have been buildable...
mosttimes i back prime... sometimes not... wish i could say i always did it where i thought it'd be an issue...
I don't think i'd lose sleep over anything i saw in your pics...
good luck
p
Like I said I am completly happy if the general consensous here is that I'm being overly picky.
Did have to hire an engineer to work out some beam-span issues.
That being said the stair job just doesnt look like fine homebuilding to me..
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Everything looks wonderful to me. I don't know why they put all those stupid little lines on the measuring tape and those red 16" marks, they don't work. Every time the plywood hits air and you have to add another stud. Lining up studs with joists don't really matter. Are those Piffin screws in those joist hangers, man them things is tough. Must of run out of them on the riser backs, caulk ought to fix it. Can't tell if those are 2x2's under that deck. The header is placed for it's beauty. Folks pay extra for taking the time to put those knots in just the right spot, sheetrock will hold it, no problem. Those sistered joist are pure art, glad you took pictures. You ain't insulating them bays are ya? I wouldn't worry about a wood post sitting on the concrete.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
I honestly can't tell if you are screwing with me because you think its too minor to matter or its major and your being sarcastic.
Under landing he used 2by4's. They are nails in the joist hangers.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
I wondered why you showed the pic of the landing. Some things aren't evident on the pics.2x4 work if the span is small. I'd use 2x6 minimum if headroom wasn't an issue for small spans but I have had to resort to the smaller members in some unusual situations.I'd be worrying about the rise and runs with this crew. Remember to check things with the finish floor materials in mind. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I showed the landing because I was not sure about the 2by4 stringers they are spanning 5' and I wanted to show the T&G wood which to me does look like it is vert grain Doug Fir.
I havent measured the rise and run but that's a good point.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
The person doing the carpentry work doesn't have much experience, all the work looks like it was done by an amateur. Is it going to fall down, not likely, is it done to basic acceptable standards, no. Are there some serious issues? Maybe the wood post. If it's carrying any weight, it should be a lally column. Could be, this is a concrete crew working outside their experience. One mistake or a needed shim here and there, happens to the best. This is more than that.The first bay on the stud wall coming off the existing looks like 18". Technically, studs don't have to be directly under joists but any self respecting carpenter would do it that way and maintain 16" centers. Seeing extra studs means they don't understand how to layout, a basic carpentry skill. If this is a wall that will be insulated, it's full of issues that could have been avoided. Looking at the joist sistering, again shows inexperience. It's a patchwork quilt. You can see random and over use of nails on the top edge of the plywood. The header was poorly chosen, although it may have been the only lumber they had. I hope the electrical wiring that is hanging is just temporary. I can't comment on the price since we don't know the scope of the job and if it includes concrete and other work. I'm guessing this is the low bidder. I wouldn't want this crew on my job doing any carpentry. Maybe they do a great slab. As a carpenter and contractor, I'm angry when I see someone masquerading as a professional and taking money for this type of workmanship. It gives the rest of us a bad name and lowers respect for the hard work and attention to detail most of us try to achieve. A hack job is a hack job whether it falls down or not.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Well its wasnt the lowest bidder it was the carpenter from the concrete crew...
I am going to make them swap out the headers with the correct ones spec'd by the engineer. What other changes would you suggest?
Actually the wood post in the picture that shows the rebar mesh is load bearing its a #1 6by6 that a 6by10 beam bears on midspan. That post holds up a whole lotta house! The SE spec'd wood for it so its got to be okay right?
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
alot of what I've just read sounds like some folks here don't do much work in old houses.
studs not lining up is just one of the issues I've read.
when I frame ... I frame with the new studs 16oc ...
and in most old houses ... studs are no where close to 16oc ... if they're a consistent "oc" at all.
so for those crying about the studs not ling up ...
first .... learn what a doubled top plate is, and why it came into vogue ...
so you'll then realise there is absolutely no need to stack them, aside from convience.
and then ... if the existing at somewhere around, say 18" oc ...
how do U stack them, and maintain the 16"oc with the new?
also ... there seems to be big concerns about ply shims.
anyone ever build something square and try to shove it into an old opening.
existing is usually not square ... so building a platform, wall or what have you a 1/2" (or 1/4") shy so it'll actually fit ... then shiming tight ... is pretty much standard in remodeling.
same goes for cutting back the existing joists ...
I can't see from here ... but cutting them shy with the plans to shim later have sometimes been the only way I've fit the new beam into place.
that pic showed some pretty even cuts ... certainly didn't looked hacked apart.
almost like someone planned it that way.
it could al be wrong ... it could all be just fine.
can't tell from internet pics ...
but I didn't see anything that scared me much.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Yeah, I gotta agree. I didn't go over everything in detail, but no red flags. If the stairs seem solid and the rise/run is consistent then that's 95% of the potential problems with them. The other 5% is just making sure the top anchorage is sound, and it's hard to tell from the pictures.There may be one or two issues here that need addressing, but I think the OP is way overreacting and (as I said) needs a chill pill. After cooling off then maybe he should go back and pick out 2-3 items that still seem to be the most worrisome to him and address those, but mostly if the work is neat (this is, from the pictures) and seems solid then it's probably good.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
Thanks for your opinion I appreciate it. I think that as of right now I am just going to have them correct the headers. 1 because I feel a 4by deep header in a 34" opening with two floors above it is not correct and 2. the SE spec'd 6by6's for those same openings. I don't think that's petty and it does bug me that there does not appear to be anyone on his crew really reading the dang diagrams and it makes me apprehensive about the quality of the work. Because I am just a home owner and won't catch everything
I'll let it be known that I feel the $2400 stair job is not as advertised but I won't make them rip it out and redo it but I won't be paying full price either.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Sounds like you got the contractor you deserved. I'm guessing a lot of contractors you spoke with never returned a bid.
You know for somebody who's only been a member since mid November and who doesnt have the sense to fill out his profile and who doesn't have a record here of being a knoweldgable pro willing to help others that comment means less than the time it took outta my life to read it and reply.
Why do you bother? Really?
Here's a shot I posted when I joined up to show that I wasn't a completely clueless chump.
My wife and I and some friends did every bit of work to do that balcony, frenchdoors, the deck, the ponds, the rockwork, did the plans, got the permits dug the pier holes and mixed up and poured a lot of concrete. That is the level of work we aspire to. When I hire someone to do work for me I rightly expect them to work at the same level that I (a diy'er) do. It burns me to pay pro's to do a job sloppier than I do.
It's that simple I've shown you an example of the quality of work that I do and I expect my pros to do at least as well.
bite me
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Edited 1/7/2008 6:13 pm by madmadscientist
That might be the ugliest back yard I have ever seen. Good work. (Is that the first Victorian you restored?? because...)
Yes the first we are on our second.
Here's before and after shots of the kitchen
View Image
View Image
Everyone: Yea these pics have nothing to do with the current subject except that I get grief from all you pros about nit-picking the work so feel like I have to prove that I can do pro-level work to be allowed to have an opinon on the matter.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Edited 1/7/2008 6:34 pm by madmadscientist
Edited 1/7/2008 6:34 pm by madmadscientist
Edited 1/7/2008 6:36 pm by madmadscientist
Sorry bub, none of the photos you have posted are impressing me. try again. Good to see that you skipped the falling down lattice work in your kitchen design.
IMHO a pro wouldn't let the concrete crew frame.
like I said earlier the GC billed himself as a onestop shop where they have inhouse framing crews. How'd I supposed to know they weren't going to be top knotch.
This GC runs several jobs simultanously and has different crews for different aspects of the job. The demo guys aren't the guys that did the formwork and rebar and those guys aren't the same guys that did the 'framing'
And yes I'm not a pro I'm an HO trying to do the best I can.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
I just taking some fun jabs. From what I remember from your HO as GC post this guy was the lowest bidder. With that doubtful practices are par for the course and this thread is not surprising. Regardless, his work should be correct and to the plans. I would consider getting a third party to look at the work if you are that worried. It’s the stuff that is not obvious that’s the true hazard.
He paid 2400 for a rough set of stairs. He's in California, the state with tough contractor tests, engineers and codes and regulations. Even if he takes low bidder, ISN'T IT ENOUGH!!!! Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
you are such a tool why don't you log off of daddys computer and go outside and play kickball with the other little boys?
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
kickball is awesome. Show me more pictures of your supermegaquality work.
Cut it out Ahole.
You're buggin me.
Mad has been extremely gracious here for a period of time, and has a real desire to learn a better way to do things.
Your little BS is getting in the way of all of us learning.
McDonalds called and you're late for your shift at the fry machine again. One more time and you'll be working at Home Depot pal. Better toe the line.
Either way cut that sh!t out.Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City
Watch it now, he knows his codes!
Damm trolls are everywhere, he needs to find a bar fight and get it outta his system.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
No, I just get to the point. If you come on a message board looking for advice you should take what you get.And I clearly pointed the code where you were wrong sphere. I'm glad this guy got a poor quality contractor. I truly think he deserves it. He's been trying to find ways to shirk responsibility and cut costs with every post. Call me a troll, but I just call it as I see it. You guys can get on the internet to make friends. I have enough as it is. What's the difference between my posts and the two above this? I don't see any. You don't like me and I don't like you, don't get on some high horse and fall off with your foot stuck in your mouth. Both the pot and the kettle are indeed black. And Mr second Victorian remodel is a jackass.
I wasn't wrong, I questioned your assertion, nor did I say you were wrong. Big difference.
Never said I didn't like you..where did I say that?
Keep your words in your mouth and try not to put them in mine,and I'll do the same.
You wanna call a poster a jackass can get you outta here..your call.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
YYYYYYEEEEEEEAAAAAHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAA.
We got a real live, loud mouth, no nothin', negative spewin', dumbass, Craftsman tool carryin',laid off helper, troll on our hands here.
Let me guess, Your last three bosses just told you " Well, we just don't have enough going right now", " We'll call when we need someone of your quality" - That means you suck.
And I though there was nothing to look forward to for the month of January.
Hey McDonalds just called back and said don't worry about the fry thing anymore, they got a homeless guy to cover, and he can do it without supervision - Oh well oppotunity lost. There's still home depot if you huff enough before you go in for the interview - actually you may not have to.
The problem with you calling it as you see it is that you are not qualified.
Jumping all over someone who is asking a legitimate question, without any redeeming information, is bullsh!t.
You may want to check out JLC.com.
Lot's of good info over there for a Want-to-be-know-it-all.
Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City
Love this place. Where insecurity runs amok. I don't have issues, I just don't have time for BS. The OP needs to be told what type of person he is. He's a PITA, and he doesn't know it. I know I'm a PITA. That's the difference. Well that and I call myself a GC and take responsibility for my actions. I have no shortage of work thanks. Lots of taters to fry at McDs place.
Characterize me in whatever way makes you feel better about yourself.
You're talking to the wrong guy about security issues pal.
You do have issues and most of the people around here are willing to deal with them as long as you stop trying to come across as some kind of hard a$$.
If you were planning on staying around, you should make a little time for BS because you are not the end all, be all with all of the answers, and you should realise that people come here with all different backgrounds, and levels of experience.
If you actually read all of his posts, you would find that Mad is actually very receptive to constructive critism. He just puts up his situations, in the way that he comes across them, and looks to take his knocks.
Mad actually cares enough to actually respond to posts here, keep people update, has a blog to keep any one in the world abreast of progress. And you are so frickin' genius that you can't even figure out how to fill out your profile?
Helping each other is what this place is all about.
Your posts to Mad were nothing more than posturing, and a feeble attempt to demean him. Also with Sphere to try to posture and challenge him to make yourself look like something that you aren't.
You should, at this point, take personal responsibility for your posted words and appologise to Mad for trying to demean him and his projects, in an attempt to look like a bigger boy - It didn't work - you look petty and prepubesent.
My characterization of you has nothing to do with how I feel.
It has everthing to do with how you present yourself.
Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City
ok Jholewhatever floats yer boat. I do find it interesting that you are calling me out for calling someone else out. You simply picked a side the same as I. Stop for a second and think about it. I don't care how many times the guy comes back and posts pictures of his poorly designed DIY projects. I think he is a PITA so I called him on it. You think I am a PITA and called me on it. Do you get it yet?
I am calling you out because, even though this is the internet, you should not act like an a$$.
There are no sides here. It is generally a place for people to help people.
You say that you are a GC.
Do you walk into the house of someone who may be a customer, and belittle them? If there are poor design features, as you see it - because noone else does - including his SE - why don't you bring up your concerns in a constructive manner?
The design is done. Signed off by the state of California, his SE, his GC, his local AHJ. His question was leading to some guidance towards how things were handled. Either tell him what's wrong ( in your opinion ) or shut the hell up. Don't attack someone for asking a question.
DO YOU GET IT YET?????Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City
Thanks JHOLE, well said.Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
"Everybody wants to know what I’m on...
What I'm on? I’m on my bike, busting my ### 6 hours a day…
...What are you on?"
- Lance Armstrong
And I clearly pointed the code where you were wrong sphere.
actually, U gave the local interpretation that carpet is not allowed anywhere in a bathroom.
an interpretation with which I disagree.
at the very least ... our local interpretation of carpenting in a bath seems to disagree ... as I've seen it done and haven't heard of any tears outs.
and for what it's worth ...
knowing the exact code for carpeting in baths ...
ain't exact something to hang yer hat on.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Whatever, I quoted it after he jumped on me for pointing out that it MIGHT be against code and he should check with his inspector.Wow what an #### I am for pointing out a possible landmine. It's humbling being in the presence of such saints around here.
"It's humbling being in the presence of such saints around here."
I understand ...
I get that alot.
churches, even ...
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
St Buck? Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
gotta be one somewhere?
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Guffaw!
Yeah..certified Shid House Inspector.
I swear I was in some snooty Hotel in Atlanta once and the penthouse master bath..had a carpeted floor.
Kinda funny, Tom Petty was playing in Atl. and me and few friends from NC Mtns went down to see the show and ( A TOTAL Coincidence) wandered in right after some of thier entourage checked in...me and another guy had guitars with us ( in cases) and we were gonna GET rooms. For all 6 of us.
Manager looked and said "With the band?" My buddy ( looks like Willie Nelson before the bus hit him) Says "Yup"..
The guy hands us key cards for almost a whole floor! Way cool digs..LOL 2 nights FREE!Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
Temper,temper..don't feed the flies.
Ignore works if it doesn't stop.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
I know I know... when I first joined that deck pick actually drew praise from Piffin and Jeff Buck I believe!! So I know redeye is full of poop!
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Instigater, like doright was, and that nut job canada guy whatever his name was..probly some knowitall that needed a new screen name from being shown the door.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
You're ok.
On the work and pics, original question;
It looks like the reason I don't have employees. It'll work - but its not the way I do things. If I had an employee do that, he'd be fixin' it. Or more often the case - I'd fix it and be one guy short on Monday. Either way, I don't do stuff like that.
Adequate yes but not craftmanlike.
Hard to tell the loads on the header.
Hard to tell the context of the pics, I wouldn't be jumpin' around with joy even if it meets structural requirements, no points gained for style.Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City
Don't worry about Redeye. He's got issues, and has never posted any of his work but loves bashing others'.
I wouldn't worry about anything I saw in your pics, even the 4x6 header, but it's certainly within your rights to ask to have it changed. It's an easy change and it will let them know you're watching them.
I think the stairs look fine, plastic risers don't have the strength of wood but they're superior in most other ways.
Just because pros charge for their work doesn't mean it's going to look better than what a knowledgable homeowner can do with enough time and help. It just means we can get it done and we charge for it. ;-)
I agree Mike. I think the backyard shows well as does the kitchen pics. It would be nice if everything we did was luxury upscale with unlimited budget. Thats the dream. The pics are the reality. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
were you born a dick head or just having a bad day?
It's his nature, but he works hard to perfect it
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Where's Forrest's link when you need it.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Hi Redeyedfly,
I know you like to argue, but we draw the line at outright insults, especially when you're insulting somebody's work.
We have an open door policy. So, if you feel able to join the discussion and keep it at a reasonable level of courtesy, we're glad to have you. Otherwise, take your contributions elsewhere.
Thank you.Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
"Everybody wants to know what I’m on...
What I'm on? I’m on my bike, busting my ### 6 hours a day…
...What are you on?"
- Lance Armstrong
Thanks x2.
that's nice....
lots of character...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
that's nice....
lots of character...
Thanks cept I don't have any idea what your talking about?
My wife calls me a charector some times is that what you were talking about?
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
I think he's talking about your backyard.Which is nice. I like the curves of that deck.
'Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt man doing it' ~ Chinese proverb
the whole deal...
you did a lot in small yard and pulled it off well...
same for your kitchen...
lots of character... warmth if ya need is said another way...
it all looks like home and not house...
or just a plain ole KUDOS..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
or "KUDOS"...
say what???
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Let me translate:"For a postage stamp-sized backyard, you've incorporated a number of engaging points of interest, from a balcony overlook to a water feature. Nestled in the midst of your beautiful hardwood deck is an elegant and complementary patio set that puts a viewer immediately in mind of a glass of sangria and the camaraderie of good friends."I'm really surprised how you could have missed that.
that's what I said...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Okay thanks I keep missing the sarcasm of a lot of the posts and I wasn't sure if that was directed towards red eye or not.
Thanks all for the kind words on our work. I'll relay them to my wife it'll make her cry.
Though I wasn't fishing for compliments thanks !!!
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
no need to fish with that kind of work....
go back abd put redeye in check...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
BTW...
If I were to be sarcastic...
you'd never missed it...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"I'll relay them to my wife it'll make her cry"Oh NO!Now you've done it!
If there's one thing we can't deal with, it is tears in a woman.
Jack the house up and lose a finger, sure.Forms blow out and have to cleanup five yards, fine.Let the stairs fall apart and break a leg and it will heal.We can do all that, but get a woman crying - what are we gonna do now?You really messed this thread up man!;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I didn't mean to..
honest...
be in hiding
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Thanks for the kind words. We're trying to do something similar with our sunken patio idea thread but not sure which way we are going to go now...
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Nice job.I want to warn you against trying to beat up the contractor and paying him less. If you go back, you'll see that we would need one hour to fix everything that was semi critical. Thats $65 worth of repairs. I'd rather have him replace the header and get it fitting tight rather than take the 65 especially if he has any more work to do. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Yea I'm not going to try to whittle him down on price just chalk it up as a learning experience....this is just such an expensive project that at some point the money going out starts to seem like monoply money and loses its value...trying to nip that in the bud now.
There's only two breaktimers in my immediate area and one of them happens to be a damn fine carpenter and he's going to help me with the rest of my needs in that area.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Everyone,
I actually thought this thread worked out pretty well. I posted some pics saying you know I'm not a pro but I've been reading FHB and JLC long enough that something doesn't look right with some of this framing.
The general consensus is that its not exactly Fine Homebuilding but doesn't look unsafe. I'm going to have them fix the header issues so it will pass the framing inspection and not try to ding him for any cash.
I've learned, my fears have been allayed, and I got Jeff Buck to take the piss outta someone for me! What more could I ask for?
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Off topic,Did you ever decide on anything regarding the kitchen bumpout idea? Maybe I missed the end of that thread...Steve
The jist of it was that the city did not have any humoungous issues with it and suggested that I angle the walls like the existing to maximize the chances of it passing.
That's on hold for a spell untill I get farther along on the foundation redo job.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Best of luck to you with all the things you are tackling. Wish I had the energy to work on my own house at the end of the day/week...Steve
mad, Please correct me if I am wrong here. The scope of the stair work consisted of two flights of stairs separated by the landing and included the new concrete landing pad. Now the carps had to tear out the old landing , tear out the old upper flight of stairs (lower flight was already gone as shown in pics), install the new header , which meant cutting back the floor joists, install new jacks, landing , and install treads and risers . Upper flight of stairs had to be removed and rebuilt without removing siding on either side of the stairs. Is that correct?
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Couple of other questions. Why wasn't this work included in the original contract? Seems that it would have been obvious that it needed to be done. And , you did either sign a separate contract for this stair work or signed a change of scope of work didn't you ? Did the GC himself work the deal with you or did you talk to one of his carps and arrange it?
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Like I say earlier in this thread I let convience win out over common sense.
Originally they were going to pour the CBS and I was going to redo the stairs.
I didn't talk to anybody they came to me (I was still planning on doing the work myself). The GC and the foreman of the job offered to do the stairs after the fact and in a moment of weakness I agreed...
We did though not sign a change order or a seperate contract about this job.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Got it. So the original stairs for the upper flight are those that everyone is talking about not having full bearing and needing hangers. Carps didn't do anything there except cut the joists back and slide the header in. No header there originally. Lesson learned about change orders. BTW how did the floor level turn out , and what happened with the old back porch being sloped? Did they figure out some way to overcome the original construction or did you accept the reality of what is.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
BTW how did the floor level turn out , and what happened with the old back porch being sloped? Did they figure out some way to overcome the original construction or did you accept the reality of what is.
Ha, yea we accepted the reality of what is. They actually brought it up a lot-it had sunk more than the original slope.
I want to make clear that I always new it was a porch area and that it would of been built with some slope. But the contractor put in the contract that this floor with be 1/2" max out and that includes the porch area. Seemed screwy to me but were happy to get the spec.
The house moving crew and the foreman talked about cutting triangular reliefs in the siding (which is fine siding is not original and interior is a low quality drywall job). I told them that was fine if they needed to do it to get the porch area back up to level. They didn't do it and the porch area is still sloped a bit but the main side to side level of the house is good and the main front to back level of the house is pretty good.
The only issue that the sloped floor is going to cause me is that I'll have to shim the base cabs along that wall back to level.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
maybe I missed it but what was the outcome of the OP for this thread about the framing?
I think you missed it. He's gonna make 'em change out the header to a 6x6, not gonna mess with them on price. And he'll be a little more selective in the future about who he hires for what. And he's gonna quit worrying about the small stuff. Or something like that! =)View Image “Good work costs much more than poor imitation or factory product” – Charles GreeneCaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com
"And he's gonna quit worrying about the small stuff. Or something like that! =)"Which he won't because it's obvious that his nature is to worry! That's okay...somebody better watch out for the job. We know that carpenter isn't! Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Thanks for the update. Personally I didn't think it was that bad. The header did need to be swapped and maybe some support at the top of the stair stringers. Other than that... hey - it's framing...
One thing I've learned is that as far as framing the GC needs to pay attention, and particularly to the engineering because if things go south, it's often the GC who picks up at least part of the bill. One thing I'll say for the OP - he did get the contractor to be the GC so no responsibility lays on the him (the OP). So the GC buys a new header and plays go-fetch. If the OP had of waited or not picked it up, there may have been wires all through it and who knows what else. Another thing I've learned about construction management is that you have to often accept the way other people do stuff and stop with all the "it's OK but I would have done it that way" kind of stuff. In other words pick your battles. If I feel like someone is delivering generally $sheet work I hold their pay until it's fixed and they don't get invited back.
Other than that I'll say to the OP that I only take 50% of what I read here seriously and seriously consider only maybe about 25% of that.
Yea What they Said Matt,
Sorry I didn't get back to you right away been up to my neck in work.
I
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Hello,
Nope, scope of work for this was just the one landing and the 5 stairs. So 'demo' the landing but is was crumbling anyway from rot. The concrete bottom step (CBS) was already being done under the original contract.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
I appreciated your thread too. The little details are fun to discuss for framing nerds. It gives everyone the chance to be building inpsector wannabees like we all secretly are anyways.Ever notice a carpenter looking around at all the details of a house or commercial building? I do it constantly. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
"Ever notice a carpenter looking around at all the details of a house or commercial building? I do it constantly."LOL - I still look up at roofs though I been out of it for years.My BIL is a lifelong painter - one of the great ones. His work on trim is smooth as a babies bottom. Anytime he walks into a house, he can't help but reach out and slide his hand along a piece of casing or a door surface to feel it, then tilt his head to catch the light just right....I wonder what plumbers do?;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I wonder what plumbers do?
break out the sawzall.....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I agree with the poster above who said it's often impractical to take an old mess and make it look like a nice neat framing job. Especially since we're just looking at pictures and are not entirely sure of what was involved. As far as the stairs, there could be $500 plus in lumber there with the VG fir. The 5/4 x 12 treads are 8 or 9 dollars a foot. What are you going to do for siding?I still disagree with putting green joist and beams in a building where all the other lumber is dry. Especially after I had just spent a lot of money leveling the house.John
<< I wonder what plumbers do? >>
I think they..ahem...exercise the gaskets :)Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
"Everybody wants to know what I’m on...
What I'm on? I’m on my bike, busting my ### 6 hours a day…
...What are you on?"
- Lance Armstrong
Wow. . . .
Exciting thread you've got going on here.
As a bay area carpenter, I'd say that work is maybe just slightly below average- but the price wasn't totally out of line. The stair treads should have been primed 6 sides, and the risers glued and nailed to the backs of the treads. There are a lot of carpenters, and companies for that matter, that don't do this. Seems strange for a coastal area like this, but that's what I've seen.Definitely get the 4x6 replaced with a 6x6. I would also have them add some nails to the plywood bits in between the joists and the beams. I.E, make a better connection from plywood to beam. Engineers around here in particular expect connections to be stressed in a lot more ways than one might think, so I wouldn't assume that the same # of nails will be enough if they're going through extra thickness.I would also get the carpenter to add some simpson ties from the stair stringer to the landing supporting it.Then again, engineers don't expect everything to be perfect. With a few minor quibbles, everything looks structurally sound.zak
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin
"so it goes"
Hey Mad - just for the record, your work looks nice. I don't want you walking away feeling insulted. It takes guts to open up your work to this level of scrutiny, and we appreciate the character of any person who does so.
Keep up the good work, and keep up the posts. This was a really fun thread to follow.Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
"Everybody wants to know what I’m on...
What I'm on? I’m on my bike, busting my ### 6 hours a day…
...What are you on?"
- Lance Armstrong
My buddy Matt who's doing the Vics in SanJose did a sunken patio in Fresno...larger backyard, though. I'd be afraid your smaller site would feel a bit like crawling into a coffin. I've got to get down there and drag you guys to meet one another. You're both crazy, and your wives knew a good thing when they saw it. FWIW, i'm with those who think it's better to get the carpenters to fix their mistakes rather than trim anything off the cost - that leaves a bad taste and doesn't fix the problem.
No I'm not going to ding him for his money. I will though not let them do any additional carpentry that wasn't in the original contract (like the stairs). I will have him fix the headers cause I don't think it should pass the framing inspection with the current ones in.
I would love to meet your friend in San Jose. I always love to hang with other old house nuts and hopefully learn a thing or two!
I learned last night that if you want your new doors and their hardware to look like the eastlake originals on the upper two floors your going to pay pay pay!
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Edited 1/7/2008 10:26 pm by madmadscientist
Matt did a lot of salvage and used to sell house parts. I bought a 24" door from him once. I tried to call him over Christmas with no luck, but when i get hold of him i'll ask. They have a houseful of Eastlake furniture, too. I have a bunch of hardware from my Victorian in Missoula, maybe 8 or 9 matching sets. I wasn't going for a period restoration, but i didn't toss the old stuff. Embossed hinges, mortice locks, handles. I never stripped the paint off. Not sure if it would work for you since you obviously need more than that, but i could photograph it if you'd like.
Matt and i caught up tonight for three hours...until the phones died! He has some doors, but says he'll use most of them on his Big Vic. I asked if he'd be OK with me giving you his name as a possible source of supplies or info...told him you were DIY and he ain't skeered. <G> Not sure if he can help you with sources - he confirmed that the price of Eastlake doors went from 30-40 bucks to quadruple that in no time at all, new doors to match ~$500 - but he's smart, fun, and amazingly talented. You'd be inspired just to tour his project(s). Email coming to you with his info.
No fair! Thats what I was going to say! I thought of it first! Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
but I got it in print 1st....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
OK, what real estate ad agency do you work for?;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Real estate's easy. I used to work for a newspaper designing display ads. Making cottage cheese and cosmetics sound irresistible...now THAT takes effort!
I show a lot of houses and wish there were more houses like yours to show to Buyers. It looks like you guys do excellent work.It's a killer when you're a realtor and we have to show houses that are rough and falling apart.It looks like a professional design and high quality work and installations were completed.I think it looks fantastic.Wish more people would show remodeling before and after pictures.
why it came into vogue
Where'd you learn words like that?"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Daniel, I didn't visit your blog before. I only saw the pictures in the post. Looks like you have been through some trying times. I don't see anything that you should be overly concerned about. That's quite a footing under that post. The wood post will last many years if it stays dry. It would be easy enough to replace if needed. I don't know exactly where that header was. It isn't a major concern either. Simply adding another 4x6 on top would solve the problem, if there is one.In the pictures from your post, the carpentry work did not look like an experienced workman did it. It's solid enough and will do the job. I think many of us would have done some things differently but it's not critical. I still would not use this contractor for future carpentry, finish carpentry work. I don't think that's their forte'. They did handle a difficult jacking and foundation. You are pleased with the way they conducted themselves and the consideration they showed for the neighbors. You should be grateful and not worry. If you were over charged on the steps, it's small potatoes compared to the scope of the job. I'm sure they didn't find this to be a walk in the park. The steps may have been the only profit.You have accomplished a major task getting the house on a new foundation. Now you have something to build from. The Mrs. must be as brave as you are, hope you have some plumbing by now. Good luck with the rest of the job.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
I wouldn't say it is substandard, but I sure wouldn't be proud of it either. You notice that it looks like a novice carpenter did this.The contractor is primarily a foundation guy and house mover, not a carpenter. That is what shows.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
You that reasoning makes perfect sense but when I was going over this with the GC he said they do rough framing all the time as part of their work. They usually have to at least reframe the kneewalls that used to sit on the old brick foundation. He sold his outfit as more of a one-stop shop compared to the other guys.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Sarcasm is not always effective on the net. Some folks might not understand that you think this is a big mess.I noticed the screws too. Without knowing what kind they are, I can't make a judgment but I'm reasonably sure they are inadequate too. The 4x6 header demonstrates their inability to understand the basic requirements of carrying loads in a structure. That is wrong and it need s to be changed for sure.The 1/2" filler on the header probably could work with the proper amount of nails. Without an engineers opinion I'd say it's not disastrous but for $2500 I'm going to want an engineer's report to verify it or change it and just run the header tight like it should be. If I paid $400 I might be less inclined to make them supply excellence. The studs not lined up isn't critical because they have doubled the top plate. Structurally, it's fine. Best practice tells us to stack everything. There may be some reason out of sight layout that started them off wrong and they ran with it. It doesn't matter, I wouldn't make them change it.The sistering looks okay. There really doesn't need to be any of that blocking to carry the old joist but it makes it look stronger even if it isn't. I think the most profound problem might be the member carrying the stringers. The stringers really aren't leaning on anything substantial. Their last riser is designed to hang down and carry the stringers but they've chopped a hole in it for the pipe. That leaves a very slim piece of material holding everything up. If the outside stringer are nailed substantially and securely to walls, this might not be a big issue. Additionally, the joist angle on the right of the stair headers look iffy. Instead of the joist hanger, they used two joist angles. It's probably enough but I don't know what the loading is. For $2400 I would insist that the headers be fixed. They would flip that 4x6. Also, I would have them add a third header on the stairwell. That would allow them to accurately cut the jacks right.Nothing here is severly wrong but nothing is $2400 perfect either. No comment on the post or rod. Not enough information. The rod needs to be lifted though. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
"If I paid $400 I might be less inclined to make them supply excellence."LOL, You couldn't buy the materials for those stairs for four bills!I didn't notice screws. Gotta go look again now.....
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
IMHO there is too much going on to evaluate by photographs. If you are having doubts about the work hire a third party, preferably a home inspector not another contractor.
I noticed something else. The sistered joists are overhanging the beam too far. I wouldn't give this a pass and I'm fairly easy. I also wouldn't let work go on while I'm not there anymore. These are rookie mistakes. It isn't anything near grade A superior carpentry. Id rate it below average. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
This is what I am feeling. I may not be a pro but from reading a lot of FHB and this forum I have a slight feeling for what's quality work and this does not seem as such.
I could have a framing inspection with the SE what's the issue with the joists overhanging the beams to far?
Jim remember that I am the HO not the GC I went away for three days for xmas. I'm not supposed to be checking up on these guy's work every day am I?
What's the fair balance point? Lets say I am an HO who's head is not totally up his arse about fine homebuilding. I want to know the work going on is quality but I absolutely don't want to be looking over these guys shoulders?
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Its your money. Look over the job daily but not while they are working. Remember, the squeaky wheel gets the grease but also remember that you attract more flys with honey. I prefer that homeowners stay engaged. I'd rather change things early in the game, rather than later and I truly want every homeower to be satisfied and happy. I don't want them simmering and wanting something different. Joist that hang over a beam too far can cause nail squeaks. Think of what happens when a load is placed in the center of that joist on the other side of the beam. We all agree that it flexes downward. Because of the cantilever, the tip of the beam overhanging is teetertottered downward. If it's only hanging over a short distance, it's meaningless. If its out there a bit, it's moving a bit. Eventually, it could work a nail loose by pushing the subfloors upward. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Man I'm feeling a bit like a sucker cause the $2400 was just for the 5by5' landing and the steps none of the other stuff you mentioned.
I think the most profound problem might be the member carrying the stringers. The stringers really aren't leaning on anything substantial. Their last riser is designed to hang down and carry the stringers but they've chopped a hole in it for the pipe. That leaves a very slim piece of material holding everything up. If the outside stringer are nailed substantially and securely to walls, this might not be a big issue. Additionally, the joist angle on the right of the stair headers look iffy. Instead of the joist hanger, they used two joist angles. It's probably enough but I don't know what the loading is.
I'm sorry I'm not following what you are talking about. Is this the picture of the new stairway shot from underneath?
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
The stair assembly is using an open stringer method. When that method is employed, the top of the stringer is installed leaning against the top riser. Because of the shallowness of your joist, that top riser takes on some structural characteristics. If the stairs stringers aren't nailed into the side walls, the entire weight of the stairs and humans on them are dependent on the top stringer leaning on that header and riser. It's hard to tell but I think you have 2x8 joist. That means that virtually none of the stringer would actually lean against the header if it was attached directly. The riser is sandwiched between the stringer and header and becomes the surrogate support. The problem I have with that assembly is two fold: the grain of the riser is running in a manner that would split easily and therefore won't be particularly helpful if a heavy load is applied on the stairs. The secondary concern is that the stairs are actually relying on the tread to remain nailed tight to prevent the stringers from falling down. I've seen stairs work themselves loose when assembled like this. We worked in one locality that required us to nail some form of hardware to the bottom of the stringer and wrap it up onto the header. For the most part, that was overkill but in some cases, the inspector was right. In this case, I would say he was right. I myself would have taken some other method to ensure a positive connection. The way it is built, the center stringer is useless.That brings up another point. The risers aren't nailed into the treads. And...I don't see any signs of glue. I wouldn't want plastic because I'd prefer something with more structural strength. The risers are a great component to provide structural rigidity on a stair system when glued and nailed. For a set like that I'd budget about 600 on a new installation. Yours is remodeling and it can easily triple due to demo and conditions. $2400 seems high but might be in line due to many various reasons. I'm okay with paying the 2400 when it is warranted but you deserve the top notch carpentry that you were promised. This guy might have done his best but it's below average carpentry in my opinion, which is widely ignored around here so don't lose too much sleep over this. Let me restate that nothing here is a deal breaker. If I was the contractor and you raised these issues with me, I'd rectify them all with an apology. It would take my guys and hour and I'd be unhappy with them for making me take that call. If I was the carpenter on this job and my guy did this when I was out, I'd make them fix it all without you asking me....especially because it was $2400!If we were pounding this out for some cheap azzed builder who cut us to the bone I'd tell him that it met code and still be embarrassed when I left. Or maybe not. It depends on my checkbook at the time and the backlog. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I did see glue oozing there, but I also wondered about why plastic was used for the risers when it was a perfect chance to add strength with the right wood.I still never saw any screws, but I ain't going back to look again. It takes 20 minutes for all those pictures to load each time and it is past my bedtime. I be losing my beauty sleep and I can't afford to get any uglier.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
you gotta learn to save things...I wouldn't go back. He already indicated that they weren't screws. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
$2400 seems high but might be in line due to many various reasons.
LocationOakland CAView Image “Good work costs much more than poor imitation or factory product” – Charles GreeneCaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com
Alameda, actually, but same thing.Rebeccah
jim remember this is the land of dreams,cailf. 2400. for stairs is like 1000 anywhere else. it must be a great place to live to put up with that.larryif a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?
No I'm thinking I got screwed a bit...magical lure of convience over-ruled some of my common sense.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
What Jim pointed out here is the other item I noticed that I would not like to see. It shows what looks like older stairs from underneathe. There are dark water stains on the back side of the wood and there is a copper pipe negotiating its way in under those stairs. The treads are looking like 2x12 doug fir and the risers maybe pine.The stringers are cut at top so that half the bottom of that plumb cut is hanging free in the air. So if the wood splits, nothing is holding the stairs up. That cut should be fully supported.if the engineer speced a 6x6, then I am wrong on the header, other than that my estimate of the length was pretty good.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Piffin, Jim,
Would you suggest some sort of simpson hanger type thing to help the situation?
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Regarding the 4x6 header laying on it's side, my guess is that your structural engineer (I guess that is what SE stands for) intended for the 6" dimension to be vertical. It appears to be a 2x6 wall - which I think the SE overlooked. So the carp followed the instructions from the SE to the best of his ability. It wouldn't have been right if the header and been oriented the other way with the ~4" thickness in a 2x6 wall either. Header probably should have been a 6x6. So my guess is that the SE made a mistake. Might want to contact the SE with your Q. Don't ask him if he made a mistake though.... he probably wouldn't admit it and it might put him on the defensive.
Either that, or perhaps the as built is exactly what the SE had in mind.
Edited 1/6/2008 10:44 pm ET by Matt
Matt, if the engineer specced a 4x6, they need only install that 4x6 and orient it correct. They can add fillers or do whatever is needed to accept drywall. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
He says the header for any openning less than 4' is supposed to be 4x6.I think that openning is about 32" so it can handle less header than a 4' needs. 6x6 would have been better, and specifics from the SE would also have been better, but I doubt this thing will fail in out lifetime and for quite a while after that
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I just rechecked the plan and it says if walls are of 2by6 construction then use 6by as the smallest dimension. He has a general header detail and says if span is less than 4' use 4by6 if span is less than 5' use 4by8.
So it does look like thats a mistake shoulda been a 6by6 which we have lots of lying around..
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Take a chill pill.
Nothing there is perfect, (though the rebar work comes darn close)
Can't see anything of the critical parts of the sistering to say yay or nay, but what I see looks fine.
That header is over an opening what size? I think it is fine.
The ply shims are fine as long as the nails are right and long enough
I only see one thing in all those pictures that is something I don';t care for, but you didn't notice it, and for how short the stairs are, it is probably fine.
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Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
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The opening is 34" in a load bearing wall and the engineer specs a 6by6" in that case so its incorrect right?
That's what worries me about the ply shims if they used longer nails to compensate then I would think thats fine...
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
apparently more stuff loaded after I replied to you. Lot of kilobytes here....
Anyways - "Here's an inside shot showing the ACQ stringers and plastic wood risers. For an exterior application I would think that all six sides of the wood would be primed and the cut part of the ACQ stringer would be primed also-they are not. I was also informed that I would have to caulk the stairs which seems like something the carp should be doing. "
caulk is usually the painters job.
PT lumber was used so no reason to protect it by primer first
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
I meant that the cut ends of the PT stringers where not protected in any way and I think that they should be primed because they are untreated wood exposed to the elements.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
I will focus only on the $2400 stairs.
What had to be done to get those stairs there?
Was the space open?
Were there stairs to be removed ?
Was the concrete landing poured or part of the $2400 deal?
Opening to be cut?
Somehow I don't see the amount given for what is shown as the whole story .
Hello,
The previous landing and stairs and CBS were removed under the foundation bill. The 'carp' started with an opening that needed to be framed for the landing and steps. The CBS is also part of a different bill the big mama foundation bill.
Sorry I was wrong the crumbling landing was still there here's a pic of what it looked like before we started work.
View Image
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Edited 1/7/2008 2:59 pm by madmadscientist
What is a CBS?
I used to watch the CBS news.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
around here its what all the building depts call concrete bottom step CBS
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
I looked at the pictures and agree with Jim, rookie workmanship. I cut the material to fit, not to slide chips of plywood in to make up for the inabilty to use a power tool.
Edited 1/7/2008 7:33 pm ET by shellbuilder
Daniel,
The one thing severla folks mentioned that I would definately follow up on in addition to the header is the lack of full bearing of the stair stringers against the header. Strapping or an additional header or... Worries me at least as much as the door header.
Great thread - good info exchanged and a little street brawl to keep it entertaining :-)
Wayne