All…..Currently in my area ,Springfield, Illinois, the issue of smoke free environment is is being debated and in my opinion will win out , i.e. second hand smoke, leaf burning etc.. Using my inch by inch theory , are wood burning fireplaces /stoves next?…..”what say you”
Discussion Forum
Discussion Forum
Up Next
Video Shorts
Featured Story
Fine Homebuilding is excited to be the official media partner of the 2024 Building Science Symposium series! This event offers builders, tradesmen, architects, designers and suppliers to discuss topics ranging…
Featured Video
How to Install Cable Rail Around Wood-Post CornersHighlights
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Replies
Be hard to make that stick against people .
Out side burning yes but not stoves and fireplaces.
I think the politicians would just get voted out locally. I dont believe its what the public wants.
Tim
It's already stuck in some mountain towns. The air inversions can hold the smoke down and not disperse for weeks until every one is gasping, so the old places with only wood for heat are grandfathered but no new. other places have burn/no-burn days.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
some wood stoves had catalytic "combs" in the stacks to help limit the pollution from the stove - seems to me Woodstock VT had an inversion problem and wanted to ban wood stoves a few years ago - in terms of the smoke effect, think early London
So what about factories?
They shut entire factories down and send them home ?
Tim
No, factories have these things called 'lobbyists' and 'political action comittees' that pretty much makes them immune to these things.Our city has a grandfather clause, existing wood fireplaces are fine, but if converted to gas, there's no going back.
I haven't seen a afactory that burns wood for heat in those mountains
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
If a factory smokes its burning somthing . It doesnt matter what it is to be offensive or a health hazard. The plant DW works at cooks rubber and it gives off gasses and black smoke which is the same thing as burning tires. Its the gases you see burning from rubber not the rubber itself . Heat degenerates the properties after the gases are consumed.
Theres a lot of plants smoking Pif .
We just got a paper here and no solid objects may be burned.
Id call that rubber and wood just to mention a couple.
Got another factory that incenerates cardboard from incomming shiping containers. They are also in the city.
Tim
You seem to be arguing with me. I won't disagree a bit with what you said here, but the subject iof this thread from beginning was and is backyard wood burning. All of a sudden you start arguing factory smoke with me? Where's the segue`? When did I argue a word about factories? What I pointed out is that theree are legal restrictions in place about burning wood for heat after you stated that it would be hard to pass or enforce them. it is only a report I made that it exists and has for yeears. It is done and is enforecable.Then out of the blue you jump to factories. Where's that come from? Out of the blue? If you want to include factoy smoke in the discussion, make your case, but no need to frame it in conmtext of an arguement with me, because I never took a position to start with on that. I'm here to deal with the subject of the thread. You want an argument, go find someone else.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
be taking the blue from the skies and a pretty girl's eyes and a touch of old glory too...
'Nemo me impune lacesset'No one will provoke me with impunity
Nope , Im not arguing . Never once said anything resembling it .
If there is a code banning burning , where does it stop ? Where does it begin?
If they are told an outside wood burner must have regultions that it must be in a concrete building with an approved chimney then weve got somthing.
If they are banning burning then it includes factories and fireplaces.
If the out side buildings are approved for inceneration then that could be used by residents. If not , why not?
I simply ask the questions just like residents would. Are we talking about the smoke or the plain sight of an uncovered wood burner in the open? I would think they would need to address one or the other . Every thing that smokes should then be regulated or buildings housed to contain wood burners should be built to ordinance , code, fire codes, then it makes some kind of sense.
As to the mayors statement there isnt room , hes wrong . Im sure his city would allow storage buildings otherwise I cant imagine anyone wanting to live there . Building accessory structures whether built for storage or other wise come under code enforcement. That also can be under the the national fire codes which contains incenerator buildings , duh.
I would advise bringing his building inspector and fire marshal in for a detailed meeting bringing him up to speed , not Breaktime. Then the city lawyer.
Tim
Edited 1/6/2006 1:46 pm by Mooney
The purpose of getting involed it this tread is to gather input on this topic, and I have recieved good points to consider. As I have stated that we have some on our council that want an out right ban on "outdoors wood boilers" I personally belive the way is to control is in the placement/saftey aspect.
As to being wrong, thats a tought call to make without knowing our ordiances. In all of our residentaul zoning, (less than 1 acre) you are alouded #1) max. 2 accesory strutures,(including attached or unattached garages). #2 All acc. strutures must be in back yard #3 Total sq feet of acc. structures not to exceed ground floor of prinipal structure. #4 max. lot coverage of 30%
In a built up community as ours, majority of home have garages, and a majority of those also have sheds, they would be max. out. Would have to obtained a variance, which is a board that I have sat on for over 20 years, so I am knowagable of our ordiances and how they work.
In speaking with our building offical, we only have control under the building struture aspect, the state in our municapality handles the electrical, mechanical, & plumbing, so we might have more restrictions that we are not aware of for "outdoors wood boilers"
Thank you for your suggestion for a meeting with our building inspector & fire marshall. I don't know how your municaplity operates, so I can't comment, but to assure you that were are following your advice this is how we operate here.
This type of a ordaince or ordiance ammendment comes under our planning commission, which is advised by our "building/zoning administrator", which is also our "building inspector". The building administrator resurches the issue for state statues that might superceed ours. Brings all this infor to the planning comm. with a reccommendation, planning comm make a desission, which then goes to the city atty to review and puts in all the legal dots and dashes. Then to the city council for 2 readings and adoption. So we have all our checks and balances and before it's law it passes threw all our "paid to know administrators", including fire chief if it pertain.
I was only asking Breaktime for any input that I could add to our thinking pot. I value the posters opinion's here, that's why I read and ask.
Thank you for you input and concerns.
I liked your post . It showed some reasoning above putting a ban on all. Safety and placement will leave options and good reasons.
Tim
factories are typically regulated by EPA and others and have some pretty expensive scrubbers and other pollution control devices in place - residential stacks/chimneys don't - watch for new regs/controls for small engines (under 20 hp) next - smog and ozone pollution increase every spring/summer as people bring out the old mowers/tractors to do yardworkguess I'm a little late in the discussion since most of these points have been raised - the bottom line of burning anything is the burning is going to cause some level of pollution, how much and the effect "remain to be seen"I'm sure someone will jump on me but the burning of debris at construction sites is probably not necessary, it's probably done to save on the cost/expense of hauling it off and burying it, and given the topic here, doesn't generate any heat for anyone residentialI have an indoor fireplace that I use on occasion. When I was in college, lived in an all electric house (built just before the "first" oil crisis) and heated it with wood to save money - as mentioned, nice smell outside when we used the "good" wood, not so good with the trash wood - and the cars always had a light covering of soot (part of that was poor fireplace design by the previous owner) - would I have wanted to be regulated - NO - would I like to have a cleaner car and less soot - YESwe go out a more than a few times for smoke in the area and it's a wood stove/fireplace burning badly - additionally, there's usually a couple of residential structure fires caused by either old unlined chimneys, poorly installed wood burning devices or people overloading the devicecan we "save" everyone - no, but we can be reasonably and improve things for most
Edited 1/6/2006 1:49 pm ET by firedude
I agree, when you open that can of worms, but where do you stop?? Are you going to have the fireplace police come to your house to see if you are burning green wood or gift wrapping paper?
Sometimes you can have to many ord's or laws.
I was a building inspector working for a mayor of a town that is 8500 , not far from your size. We are lunch together nearly every day if our schedules allowed it . We were good friends before I took the job and he was the one who asked me when the position became available .
Then came code inforcement and we both seen and talked daily over the problems . We both dealt with it as you do Im sure. Many calls he attended and sometimes he sent me . I realize where you are comming from and I dont have any answers to the multiple problems . Where there isnt codes people take advantage and on the other hand codes themselves take advantage of others. Common sense doesnt have a chance to rule .
The burning issue is a double edge sword causing problems both ways. It also has its advantages . I guess where to stop is a question to never be answered. I dont personally agree with trash burning in a city. It stinks and too many times its left there to pile up smoldering . No one in a city should be forced to smell it continulally. On the other hand the mayor got plenty of calls over barking dogs that never shut up. There is no ordinace against pets other than a leash law . Who could live next door to a kennel of dogs that never shut up? No one should have to endure it . Talk about a can of worms it would involve fixing it .
Anyway from trash burning effects leaves , limbs , and wood burning inside to enforce it . I personally would rather put up with the smoke while someone is trying to clean their property next door. Its hard to separate the difference to be fair.
Tim
Code enforcement is one of our biggest problems, we have some on our council that think an answer is create a ordinace prohibiting or limiting something. But they forget the enforcement part of it. And have anothers that want ord's passed to "get a handle on someone" It's a no win!
But in this case we have ban trash burning years ago, we have outstanding yard waste compost site for leaves, brush, ect...have curb side leaf pick up. Our compost site is an excellent sorce for campfire wood, compost at a cheap price and wood chips too! It is an older community, older homes, lots of fireplaces, additions with wood burning stoves. and the patio fire pots seem to be many.
Here we have some that want an outright ban on the "outdoor wood burning boiler" Just looking at the big picture here, Don't want our building dept. be be know as a bunch of ####'s. They make some good wood burners and soon I feel the EPA will regular or approve the emmission standards. But with wood burners come all the messy of the wood, and this is a residental area. Thoughts, input??
OK.
The problem here is that haul off of debri has been "stopped" unless they dig into their pocket .
The garbage companies wont take leaves because the dump wont take leaves and the city wont pick up leaves for some reason although they created the ban. You at least provided an alternative .
Your problem as I see it ;
Every code passed is under legal review at any time someone wants to contest it . All of them before they are passed should be reviewed by the city legal council as you already know. He reviews class action possiblities. If a ban is set on out side furnaces someone will ask why. You give the problem and they likely will give a solution. If they arent answered it becomes a political issue.
On another side , you wont be pzzing off that many people to contest it which is good unlike banning trash burning and creating a control problem for every one . At least yall had the for sight there we didnt exibit.
Still I contest the equal rights if you allow fire places and wood stoves and not out side furnaces with no codes to correct your problem giving them "options", then it seems unfair . Make a good case for a jury. Coverage of that type of case would probably get state attention thus it would become political. The next pre officials that should run for office would have an ear to the people to gain leverage . That would make a great point to run on amoung others if I could find them. Thats sort of how politics work isnt it ?
Our current mayor which I helped in his campaign , listened to people . Streets and roads were their concern which seemed to be a dead issue because of lack of funds. There simply was no money to work with and no one but him promised relief . He said if he was elected he would implement a plan to solve the probem and left it at that .
He was elected and worked every day literally until a 1 cent sales tax was passed for street improvement only . We were getting a super center on I-40 interstate and he told the people that travelers would pay a good part of the expense. Then he moved to a hamburger tax plus a 1 cent motel tax also targeting travelers. Both passed which a big part was parks and tourism to bring in more travelers to pay more money and help support the town. That bought two new police cars and two new officers. We have built a nice complex for the youth and other scheduled events which the tab on that totalled 4.5 million. The building also houses the parks and recreation department with 4 employees to maintain all the ball fields and parks. Weve added onto two parks with pavillions and park equipment. The epole also wanted a better place to raise their kids.
Thats pretty much his accomplishments after listening to the people. I think its about the people and he convinced me of that. I cant think of anyone in the upcomming election that could unseat him after what hes done. Thats honestly what I think.
Tim
Are you going to have the fireplace police come to your house to see if you are burning green wood or gift wrapping paper?
Sometimes you can have to many ord's or laws.
Ooh, what if a person, gasp, burnt one of those holiday "decorated" pine cones? (They're treated with a copper compound that gives them a greeen flame.)
Tripple-whammy, that. Celebrating some sort of religious holiday, first off. Then, needlessly adding to the "carbon footprint" of the community. Then, burning chemicals!! Why, nay, that requires more "!", !!!!! (We shall not bring up the composition of duraflame, or similar logs, nor the chemicals routinely vented that are products of combustion due to food preperation--the poor dears probably could not stand it . . . )Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Did you move to Springfield from BC? Boss Hog is only a half hour south of Spfld. , my mother and brother still live in town.
Leaf and outdoor burning has been banned in Spfld since 1970s, my grandma was livid when she could not burn leaves in the street gutter any longer.
In Seattle area there were 15 days in early Dec where fireplace burning was illegal ($1000 possible fine by the wood smoke gestapo) due to inversion.
As long as there are a few politicians whose mistresses still like to do it in front of the fireplace, those are likely safe for awhile <G>
PS: Until the early 50's, central IL towns/cities were so covered with coal soot that burning leaves outdoors was considered and ''air freshener"
Edited 1/4/2006 8:05 am ET by junkhound
junkhound........Got my profile corrected thanks to Mark at sysop. I live in Petersburg just a long driveway to Springfield. I have a son in Portland that pounds nails , small world huh?
When New Salem (aka old Petersburg) has their quilt shows and overall demos next summer, my mom (83) still sits in one of the cabins and quilts and puts her quilts on display. Look for the blue ribbons, that's mom's quilts. <G>
They still burn coal in the blacksmith shop at New Salem.
junkhound .......I live accross the river from New Salem, It's some place I go when the rest of the world "sucks" it's kind of a reality check ,the people there have got used to me being there out of season.
I'm pretty sure I have at least seen your mom and may have talked to her. the dedication these people have to reinactment of history is fantastic, I would recommend anyone to stop and visit ,especially if they have a interest in the building trades.
Kind of along the line of woodburning ,there is a cabin where they make barrels and casks it has a unique fire place you may have seen. The entire fireplace is inside the cabin including the chimney. It's made of sandstone and sits about 6feet from the outside wall into the cabin. The fire box is a massive 8x8x4 ft taking up a lot of space but when it's lit the fire is in the middle of all this stone inside the sandstone box inside the cabin, it seems our forefathers understood the stone absorbs ,stores an radiates the heat.
Best come visit your mom soon and take time to remember the peace this old carpenter finds at New Salem and experience it fully yourself........F.L.Hill
I have been reading this post with great intrest. I am the mayor of a small city in Michigan, 1 mile square, approx. 6,000 pop. most city lots are the old 66x132' lots, but some are larger. We have some people that want a total outright ban on outdoor wood burners, "too much smoke". No conserns for indoors fireplaces, stoves, patio fire pits, or indoors wood stoves. Leave and trash burning has been banned back in the 70's
I feel this a bit much, I would like to see a control on "outdoors wood stoves" as a accessory structure and setbacks. We have ord's on the books already that limit lot coverage, # of assesory strutures, and setbacks. Along with a wood stove comes a wood storage structure and in time this is not a pretty site. With our small lot sizes the placement of an outdoor stove would be next to impossible, but we do have some larger lots on the outskirts of town that would be possible.
I like to see alt. heating sources and feel the improvement in the stoves will overcome lots of the smoke issue. But we can't be having these pop up in the middle of a city with real small lots. I would like to hear your thoughts on this matter. Also what other concerns should we be looking for.
Local govmnt regs here are failrly severe compared to many parts great lakes states, here is a link of Puget Sound/WA state area regulations for you to peruse if interested.
http://www.pscleanair.org/index.shtml
We dont think about others problems .
They just banned out side fires here trash burning . To a household its not a big deal anymore but it is a construction site.
Another thing that has happened is people quit cleaning their properties of leaves and limbs which now make big piles that are hoped to compost in back yards. Mulching is big now since the change. I dont have a clue whats gonna happen over the limbs.
People taking care of their yards are mixed . Some would do it if it didnt cost anything . Those are mixed in with people that are hiring new companies to take care of it .
Personally , if I couldnt burn wood if I wanted to in my own home for heat , I would move . I wouldnt settle in a town like yours if I knew it up front . Thats what happens but they dont shout it . If you get bad service in a food place you just dont go back. Never do you make a speech in person over it .
Tim
If you get bad service in a food place you just dont go back. Never do you make a speech in person over it .
You haven't met my wife. She gets discounts. That's what managers are for. Bad service, whether in a restaurant or gov't, is call for protest. Restaurants I generally avoid, gov't I can't. And I've burned a few bureaucrats.
They just banned out side fires here trash burning . To a household its not a big deal anymore but it is a construction site.
No bans here, but I would prefer them. Major air pollution to anybody directly downwind. Wood will decompose, as you note. Chipping, and perhaps transportation, is all that's necessary for speeding up the process. Clearly adds cost, as does requiring power plants to clean up their emmissions. Both seem reasonable to me, encourages conservation at the very least.
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
I see the outdoor wood furnaces and boilers getting more popular here too, and a couple friends have them.I think that lkike cigarette smokers who blew their smoke across the table in restaurants in my non-smoking face. the abuses by SOME of the owners will bring about restrictions on them everywhere.I would propose that rather than ban them, there are more reasonabnle measures that can still help budgets and the overal energy cost problems for the whole couintry.For instance, they should perhaps be subject to a license/inspection yearly. I know of one that gets so creosoted in half a year that it will not draw safely. That makes it smoke and smolder even worse, and is certainly a hazard for the firemen who will someday be called to the cdhimney fire or explosion that he will have. He brags about how he can burn 'anything' in it, meaning he burns green wood and garbage.Another practical restriction for owners and for the neighborhood is to have all of them installed with a minimum fouteen foot tall chimney. This would help the draw ( when kept clean) and will allow the smioke to rise and disperse a biit further above the heads of pedestrians and motorists and be somewhat less likely to find its way into the neighbor's homes.Of vcourse all structures for the hasha and for the wod supply should be subject to the local ordinances for setback frrom property lines and if those currebnt setbacks are minimal, that too should be adjusted and applied to every one. One reason for setbacks is for the safety of the firemen and to prevent spread of fire jumping from one structure to another. I'm sure yuour local fire chief has some resources on those recommendations. Our setbacks for all facilities and structures is 15' to property line on side and rear.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Thanks, this is the kind of input I was looking for. I am not in favor of an out right ban of the outdoors wood boilers, but if you are to have them this is the rules. And if you can fit one on your lot with our rules fine, if you can't then I guess you can't have 1. The increased set back, height of stack. and the yearly inspection. All great idea's, I will add them to my list. Thanks to all readers.
I lived in a small town in colorado where woodburning has been illegal for almost 20 years now.
DCS Inc.
"Whaddya mean I hurt your feelings, I didn't know you had any feelings." Dave Mustaine
The issue in our area of western Wisconsin is not people burning wood in patio fireplaces (controlled by ordinance) but the emergence of outside, wood burning boilers that heat water for inside warmth. There was one, then a few, and now more, as people (especially those with wood sources) found a way to more cheaply heat their homes, after the initial cost. They're growing, so environmentalists are concerned about pollution when they see black smoke coming out of the burners. A bunch of these in rural areas, where they are now, may not be a problem for them, but I just saw one inside a city limit. No problem for me -- I like the smell of burning oak, and I'm old enough to associate the sweet smell of burning coal with winter, and the blackened snow as well. The point is that they will eventually be regulated, as most local governments didn't see this coming and probably still don't see it as an issue. Lots of people here burn wood as a supplement to their oil or gas systems, but it's usually inside and nobody notices. But the outside systems can't help be noticed, so I expect a reaction soon.
sweet smell of burning coal with winter
methinks that is one definition of a factitious comment.
Had not smelled grate burned coal till year ago December in Scotland, knew immediately what the acridity in the air was.
A little wood smoke can go a long ways. Add hundreds or thousands of units burning wood in a small town or populated country area and you have a major health problem. I have driven through New England areas and in Cottonwood AZ in the winter and I really had a hard time dealing with the wood smoke due to my allergies problems and my clothes smelled like I had been camping for a week.
There has to be some regulation on these outdoor and indoor appliances for all our common good. I have a neighbor with an outdoor water "boiler" and they burn garbage in the unit, even though their owners manual says it is a NO-No. They make the neighborhood smell like a burning dump ground.
I want to get one of these outdoor wood furnaces but I will not until I can find one that REALLY cleans up the smoke problem. I need to survive in the cold but I don't need to wreck my health and the health of my neighbors across the county doing it.
Meantime I will pick beer cans from alongside the road to pay for my gas heat. :-)
Virginbuild
Coming down the road here the other day I noticed a neighbor had installed an outdoor wood furnace in that there were huge billows of smoke coming out from his backyard.
Little wind and you could see the strong smoke hitting against the neighboring house.
The smoke continued at ground level, dissipating but still viewable as it flowed thru the other home's backyards.
Can't see that going on for very long before something happens even in a semi rural environment.
'Nemo me impune lacesset'No one will provoke me with impunity
I noticed the exact same thing a few days ago driving down a road nearby. It was the first remote wood burner I've seen around here and it sure was a smokey mess. This part of central Va is very rural with the biggest town in the county just now nearing a population of 300.
I bet around 30% of the locals earn a living as 'woodchucks', that is cutting and selling firewod in the metro DC area for the fireplace yuppies. The current price is around $500/cord so it's not a money saving move by those buying the wood.
Next year a high density subdivision will start up a few miles down the road with lot sizes of only 5-7 acres. The demand is such out here that the lots alone will sell in the 250-350k range. Those prices will bring folks who think they like country living but soon begin their campaigns to bring things into the 21st centry as they see it and I can't help but think wood smoke would be a big issue as it will be messing with their view of the Blue Ridge.
I've never seen a problem around here with fireplaces or wood stoves but I can see when an issue would soon arise if more remote wood burners began to appear.
'Course on the positive side the smoke can help hide the view of the windmill turbines;o)
be sometimes wary of what passes as the march of progress
'Nemo me impune lacesset'No one will provoke me with impunity
I think we're safe from windmill battles, next big issue will be outhouse remeval...still lots of lil houses behind the big houses around here.
Up here in Vermont, where outdoor boilers are becoming common, and nearly everyone has a woodstove or fireplace, the issue of various types of outdoors burning has been a hot topic. The State legislature was asked to pass an emissions law regarding outdoor boilers which would have effectively banned them, because there is no easy or cheap way to cut the emissions to the point that the clean air people were calling for. There are already some stringent regulations regarding isolation distances for boiler placement, basically if you are within 500 feet of another residence you have to extend the stack on the boiler above THEIR roofline. OK if you're uphill, but forget it otherwise. Also you can't place a new boiler or relocate an old boiler within 200' of another residence at ALL. That rules out the suburbs.
One of the biggest problems with the smoke belching from these outdoor furnaces is that the manufacturers claim you can burn anything in them. Of course they tell you not to burn garbage or cardboard etc., but they tell you wet, green, dry, seasoned, wood, all is OK. I have talked to guys with these things who actually cut down a tree, drag it whole over to the burner and cut it up as they need it and burn it. That will create all kinds of steam, creosote, and messy acrid smoke. If people would be careful, even more careful than indoors, what they burn in these things, then there wouldn't be such a large number of complaints.
I have to deal with this issue, I am about to fire one of these units up in the next few weeks, and I have been stockpiling nice dry cordwood since last year. I put an extra section of chimney on it, and have no intention of burning anything other than well-seasoned dry wood in it. We'll see how it goes.
HI Razzman,
Happy New Year!
For sure! Life is complicated these days. Everything we do has a cause and effect on someone else. It starts in our home and spreads across our neighborhood, the country and the world, for better or worse. Acid rain, CO2, Ozone, PCB's, it all comes back to haunt us in our air, water, and food. There surely is a lot of work and research to be done environmentally to address and solve our problems. Come on young people! Study hard, so you can make this world a better place to live. We older generation are failing miserably.
Best regards,
Virginbuild
Interesting point I noticed today driving by the same house that had the billowing outdoor furnace that was hitting the neighboring house with it's smoke.
Cold front moved through so temps are back down below freezing with snow but today the outdoor burner wasn't running.
Makes me wonder if the street had to come to a gentlemen's agreement. ;o)
be it also makes me wonder about all the 'used one season' outdoor woodburners advertised in the local newspaper.
'Nemo me impune lacesset'No one will provoke me with impunity
Virginbuild, you mention:"I want to get one of these outdoor wood furnaces but I will not until I can find one that REALLY cleans up the smoke problem. I need to survive in the cold but I don't need to wreck my health and the health of my neighbors across the county doing it."I don't know much about them but a guy posted a few weeks ago who had built his own woodfired boiler. It sounded intriguing enough I googled around for a bit and ran across three outfits that make boilers they claim are "wood gasifiers" not wood burners. They were made by Tarm, Alternate Heating Systems (AHS) and Garn. I don't know if there claims are valid but they maintain they burn wide open with a draft inducing fan at 2000 degrees and burn off any particulates and creosote so thoroughly that it is only visible for the first 15 minutes following start up.I was especially interested in the Garn unit as it has a large storage tank (1500 gallons in the smallest unit) built around the firebox. This allows running the firebox wide open throttle at maximum efficiency and the heat is stored in the water tank til you need it.I think the Garn unit starts around $8k. The marketing/sales guy maintains corrosion isn't an issue in the water jacket if you run the proper chemicals to inhibit corrosion. He maintains the AHS unit with a stainless heat exchanger isn't any more immune to corrosion and it has its own problems created by the stainless. AHS also maintains their unit burns wet wood but the Garn guy advises burning only the dryest wood availible to get maximum efficiency.I am still a bit skeptical but sent away for their information packet. I couldn't get the video on their website to run on my ibook. I don't know if this link is accurately transcribed but try it out.
dectra.net/garn/Wood_heat.htmWhile googling the topic of wood boilers I ran across plenty of criticism of them but found very few praising these three particular manufacturers. I want to think the high combustion temps are the key to clean burning but then again these three outfits may just have better salesmen and better writers preparing their websites and brochures.Have you ever heard of these units? Any thoughts on them?I have so much unused eucalyptus and cyprus falling yearly I am burying tree trunks and branches that would probably equate to ten or more cords, every year for the last three years. I can only put so much wood through the two wood stoves we currently have. I would love to be burning larger chunks of wood an heating for the cost of just my woodcutting labor.Karl
Here is the San Joaquin valley its called "spare the air days" - illegal to use your fireplace. If you wanna burn a log, gotta check and see if its legal that day. Fines if you get caught.
I wish they'd ban fireplaces outright....that way they would be forced to reduce my property taxes (since ANY fireplace, woodburning or zeroclearance gas units with NO masonry whatsoever) add a minimum of 5K to my home base tax value...... Whoa...wait a minute....you mean if we ban fireplace emmissions we could lose tax base...uh let's rethink this boys...we need tax money, it pays our salaries, and any reduction in taxes means we make cuts in govt......lets have a closed door on this one.
Lawnmower emmissions, plumbing vent stacks.......we need more regulations.
Have you seen and heard those dang yellow buses that go around our neighborhoods every morning....man oh man are they loud and that black smoke that rolls out of them...I think I'm getting cancer.
Gas prices going through the roof.....some hard workers figured a way to beat it but WORK hard feed it.....let's find a way to shut them down.
This world had better just wise up to the fact that it revolves around ME. My personal rights and freedoms are just THE most important thing. What goes into my body from my surrounding environment are of the utmost importance to me.
That turd next door take off that vinyl siding.... I think it's ugly, it's outgassing nasty stuff I'm sure.......and visually I get a headache everytime I look at it...giving me a brain tumor I'm sure.
And what is it with all those Christmas lights my neighbors string all over their houses....nasty ugly multicolored lights everywhere, plastic garage sale leftover junk all over the lawn, santa, snowmen..blah blah blah...can't get wink of sleep cause it's daylight all night long in my room....what is it about Christs birth that necessitates all this waste of power(generated by burning of coal around here) and gawdy tacky "decorations" can't we get a law passed to prevent this? I'm sure Christ would not be pleased with us messing up the air and burning coal to make power to light our houses in his honor....
MORE TO FOLLOW............... Keith