Opinions on wood species for framing studs, best type to stay fairly straight. I heard Douglas fir (red pine) is about the best (k- dried). What do you think? Going to be framing a wall finished on the exterior but the interior will not be finished for a while, maybe a year or so before I get to that part. Just like the studs to stay put for drywall installation.
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You want the latest word on STUDS, huh? Well you've come to right place. There'll be several sub-species of them along any minute now, to set you straight on that topic.
Edited 7/20/2007 12:31 pm ET by Hudson Valley Carpenter
I had to leave 3 mid-western states because they banned studs on the roads in winter. Fortunatly California has no such law.
I hope one of those 3 states was MI. thanks for the funny reply !!
It's Friday. (Not that things would be different any other day of the week.)
Steel doesn't warp.
To bad some minds do!!
You need to know if you can order specfic species first. I can at my lumber supplier, but not at the big boxes, and there is an upcharge as well as a minimum size (1 bunker) order. May be to pricey for a single wall.
Most of what I get is marked SPDF,... spruce, pine,& D-fir.
Any of them are fine IMO. The important thing is to get them up and get them dried in asap. Let them go through a couple to many wet/drying cycles and any of the fast grown species used today will go wild on you. Now if you could get 2x4 cut from old growth lumber, you survival factor for wet cycling gets better.
Dave
I'd say just go somewhere where they'll let you pick through the pile a little bit and pull out some nice looking ones.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
I've never seen SPDF...You probably mean SPF, but in that group the "F" is the true Firs, not Douglas-fir.SPF often includes Lodgepole Pine--a tree that has very small knots and tight "old growth" ring characteristics--always a good choice.
Your right. I checked the stamp on some i have laying in the shop.
Oops.
Dave
New a guy who framed entire house from redwood in the 70's.You get out of life what you put into it......minus taxes.
Marv
New a guy who framed entire house from redwood in the 70's.
New you weather it was old growth?
Special order from lumber yard of friend.You get out of life what you put into it......minus taxes.
Marv
New you weather it was old growth.
Attempt at humorous aside. ;-)
Where are you? In western Mass. all we have is Euro spruce. It seems a little crazy that with all the wood in North America we're importing wood from Europe. You can get fir here in the bigger stuff but it's at a premium.
Most of the "Euro" wood is milled in Sweden. They have boosted their production and exports while simultaneously reducing timber harvesting in Sweden. Sounds impossible, but they import cheap whole logs from Russia and the Baltic States, mill the stuff into value-added lumber and ship it to us at a handsome profit.
MI. I purchased the douglas fir a while back from MICHIGAN LUMER. have to check with them to see if they have it in stock.
When purchasing studs, you seldom know the exact species--since they are sold in groups of species with similar properties. The species you mentioned, Doug-fir, is one of the few that is often sold as a single species...it is a very good choice (though it is not the same thing as "Red Pine").
Other good species choices include:
Southern Yellow Pine (SYP actually four or five different pine species)
Larch (usually grouped with Doug-fir)
Hemlock & Fir (Hem-Fir)
You mention kiln dried (K-dry) which means the wood was dried to 15% moisture content at the mill--a good idea....but, this means little if the lumber is left out in the rain or in hot, humid conditions at the lumber yard.
Still, K-dry is usually better than S-dry which was milled at 19% moisture.
Also important are Grade. The above species are often "Select" which is a premium structural grade=high strength & high price.
In the SPF (Spruce Pine Fir) group look for "Constuction Grade" rather than "Standard" or "Utility" and look for #1 or "#2 or better."
You can find good studs in all these groups...look for tight, straight grain with few and small knots. Some studs just happen to be 1/4 sawn...go for those first (grain like this: IIIIIII), then go for flat sawn (grain like this: = ). The least stable boards have grain at an angle: /////////.
"You mention kiln dried (K-dry) which means the wood was dried to 15%..."
I haven't seen 15% moisture in a long time. Are there stil mills that dry it to 15%? I thought everything was 19% now...
Bumpersticker: Don't run your fingers over my truck and I won't run my truck over your fingers.
I looked into it and the K-dry stamps indicates 16-19% moisture. You can get Kiln dried lumber stamped "KD15" or "MC15"...that is the 15% moisture lumber I was thinking of. There is also a KD-HT stamp for wood "heat treated" to eliminate fungi, insects, etc.
Does the KD-HT have 15% or the 16-19% moisture content ?
KD-HT is a relatively new designation, still 16-19% moisture, but heated to 133*F to the core of the studs for 30 minutes...it is kinda like pasteurization. Important for pallets and crates used in international shipping to prevent spread of disease/insects/fungi. It was first adopted in the USA in 2001 and is becoming more common.http://www.sbcmag.info/past/2002/02jan/faq.php
I picked up some of these KD-HT 2x4s at the Home Depot. They usually carry S-DRY around here. I wondered what the difference was. Thank for the information.
I'll join Boss in reminding you that KD means 19% surface content. The stud can still be even heavier in the center.
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You are right about the 19% threshold, unless stamped KD15 or MC15.K-dry is 16-19% moisture content. I was thinking of the KD15 lumber.The 19% moisture is not just a surface measurement though. The mills have to certify the average moisture content of the entire board. Some mills have been caught using the S-dry stamp when oven-drying analysis shows that they were cheating.If you check moisure content with a meter, then you are just getting a surface measurement and the MC in the center of the board is higher.
THANKS for the information sounds like you know your stuff. I'm going to try to get some Douglas fir,if not I'll keep your Info. in mind. Thanks for the correction on red pine should of stated red fir.
doug fir is not red pine.... red pine is also known as long leaf yellow pine. Found in southeastern US. I am no expert, but, this is what I have been told....
Error on my part meant to say red fir. thanks for the correction.
Red pine is native to the Midwest and Northeast U.S., not the Southeast:http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=PIRESYP species are Loblolly, Longleaf, Shortleaf and Slash pines:http://www.southernpine.com/expert/index.pl?leafcode=23
Winstall
Red pine is a variety of pine fairly common in Minnesota, much of it was planted by the WPA administration back in the 30's. not very strong or durable. No one who has seen the two species would ever confuse the two..
Personally, I think any species of wood will move over a year.
I think your best bet is to use K.D. and glue your exterior sheathing. This would help to keep the studs in line. I'd still be prepared for a little truing and planeing before drywall. If you want to take it one step farther, install girts. What ever you decide, spec it for your framer when he bids.
Its not a big deal, really. No matter what you do, a few studs will walk away on you.
Grits? You always have time to do it over because someone else did it the first time!
Girts
Horizontal blocking at mid-way of the stud height. Here they are a code requirement for walls 9' or higher.
Or was that an attempt at humour, directed at my annoying tag line? If so, then, well, sorry.If you didn't have time to do it right the first time, how come you've got time to do it over again?