Anybody out there installed wooden kitchen countertops?
I have a client that is asking for them, and I personally have never installed one, though I have seen them in magazines. I would be anxious to hear any input and/or advice anybody may have on this subject, including best species of wood to use, advisability of using around a gas cooktop, best way to seal, etc.
Years ago my brother put butcher-block countertops in his house, and used mineral oil to seal and condition them. They always seemed a little sticky to me, like the oil never really absorbed into the wood…………
Replies
Hey redfly - there are a number of ways to do this - it all depends on the look your folks are after.
I personally like maple counters finished with paraffin (wax) - just warm the wax in a sunny spot (hot car dashboard) and rub in - renew as needed. My local planing mill has a edge gluing rack and thickness sanders, so I just tell them what I want...
I have seen vertical grain fir counters finished in a thick gloss spar urethane - looks pretty good, but I don't know much about the durability.
I have seen maple/oak/cherry inlays that are 15 years old and look great, although your clients need to know wood moves and that is part of the character.
There are specialty finishes for bowl turners and the like "Behlens" is a name I have seen - ask over in Knots - they'll know.
I wouldn't be concerned about the stove issue - laminates are built over wood particleboard and there are no clearance issues there - unless you are using a commercil range.
As for stickiness - I finished my last house entirely with linseed oil cut with paint thinner - it was great everywhere, but sticky on one floor where the wood wasn't dried thoroughly - if you choose a renewable finish, make certain your wood is good and dry.
I've heard that only boiled linseed oil will ever dry.
I'd read that too - but I've never seen unboiled linseed oil sold anywhere.
The oak in question was kiln dried (I cut and milled it) but I rushed the kiln b/c I needed the floor, so we were @ 12% moisture content iirc.
Treat every person you meet like you will know them the rest of your life - you just might!
Raw vs Boiled linseed oil -
Boiled has driers added - has been the base in oil paints for a long time - will form a film -
Raw (often used in veterinary) will not form a film but soaks into wood better -
there's a place for both -
any good hardware should have both on the shelf -
get 55 gallon drums thru chemical suppliers -
I haven't seen any advice to disagree with yet - wood counters are not for people that expect things to remain 'perfect' - they will gain patina (scars) with use - a lot of the wear is easy to cherish - but a dumb-azz mistake/spill/burn will leave a reminder for ever -
poly will wear thru quickly - wood will not - thick 'bar top' type finishes will scratch - BLO is as good a finish as I know - apply once a day for a week, once a week for a month, once a month for a year, then as needed (1-2 times/year)
be careful with humidity sources under the counter (dishwasher) - it can cause a lot of movement -
"there's enough for everyone"
Raw linseed oil will dry also... it just takes a lot longer. Most oils will eventually dry. Olive oil will not. I like to use Walnut oil which is very safe (makes good salad or cooky baking oil) and dries pretty fast (six weeks for the first coat, two weeks for subsequent coats). These type of countertops are not for everyone. They never look really neat or perfectly clean after they have been in use for a while. They have sort of a nice homey retro feel that some people like but most people replace them with something else after a few years. I always reccommend granite with some nice wooden cutting boards handy.
Uh,not to be picky, but boiled linseed oil does not have "driers" added to it. The act of boiling it "polymerises" sp?. it which changes it's molecules so they cross link upon" drying". raw linseed oil will not set and is used on leather and as a bulking oil on some traditional timber framed ship hulls. Waterlox is a good examole of a Polymerised oil finish. Jim Devier
well, maybe - looks like there are a variety of products under the 'BLO' umbrella -
Boiled linseed oil was used as a paint binder or as a wood finish on its own. Heating the oil makes it polymerize or oxidise more readily, effectively shortening the drying time. Today most products labeled as "boiled linseed oil" are a combination of raw linseed oil, petroleum-based solvent and metallic dryers. The use of metallic dryers makes boiled linseed oil inedible. However there are some products available that only contain heat-treated linseed oil. These are usually labeled as "polymerized" oils though some may still be labeled as boiled.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linseed_oil
"there's enough for everyone"
That was my impression too- that it's just about impossible to get boiled linseed oil without the metallic dryers.
I've heard that linseed oil and other oil based finishes are non-toxic once cured (after 30 days or so), but I can't verify that. I don't think i'd want my kitchen counter smelling like boiled linseed oil for a week or so every time I refinished it.
zak
I've always found the odor of linseed oil pleasant -
but I have to say, the recipe with the oil and parafin looks like the gem of this thread - I think I'll be trying it sometime when it seems appropriate -
someone mentioned that raw linseed dries, just slowly - I don't really agree with that - I keep an open tin can with raw oil and a paint brush in the paint cabinet - I can leave it set uncovered for a year and there will be no skin and the brush is as supple as ever - it's a favorite wood finish in several circumstances for me - very mellow, lets the wood do the speaking - matter of taste -
I used some boiled last week to seal some wooden sash that I've reworked and stripped - it mostly soaks in, but leaves a hardened, sealed layer for a few thousands at the surface of the wood - inhibits moisture transfer and makes for a good paint job -
"there's enough for everyone"
boiled linseed oil makes me think of tool handles- it's pleasant to me in its way, but a little to much for a kitchen counter.
I didn't know about using boiled for under paint- do you go over it with a oil primer, then latex, or what? you must have to let it dry for a while first.
zak
totally in accord w/ your appreciation of linseed oil
only drawback I have found is that it can be a fine host to mildew - use in good dry environs
a fine host to mildew
ya - I've a buddy who built his house in the woods - B&B poplar siding - he's a 'if some is good, more is better' guy - absolutely slobbered on at least 3 coats - paid his daughter to scrub the house down with a chlorine solution the next summer after it turned black -
"there's enough for everyone"
Wow - double barrel
can't get a better host for mildew than poplar ( maybe cottonwood )
then add linseed oil you've really sweetened the pot!
I need to throw this in here, about boiled linseed oil, guess the trick would to get raw linseed oil, figure out the time/temp solution to get the polymerisation right and make your own without the crap. second I have restored antebellum log cabins here in the southeast for years and by far the best condition cabins I've seen were built from poplar. Jim Devier
I didn't know about using boiled for under paint- do you go over it with a oil primer, then latex, or what? you must have to let it dry for a while first.
oil primer - then whatever - ya, you can't be in a hurry - a few days (3 or more) setting in the occasionally heated shop - I always check the next day for 'runs' and wipe any puddles so there isn't a 'skin' at the drip points - it's a long standing standard recommendation for wooden sash -
"there's enough for everyone"
I lived in a house that had maple counters. Looked great, but was a pain in the neck. Mineral oil is not the right choice - goes rancid (?) after a while, and needs scraping and refinishing about twice a year. The other thing is that I had a hard time using the countertop to chop because I was leaving cut marks in the top. I know, that is what it is there for, but it bugged me. Poly on DF would show every scratch and I don't think it would stand up to the water. Refinishing it would be another pain in the neck. I haven't tried the parafin idea, but it sounds good, although I think I would carefully melt it or use a heat gun to melt it into the pores of the wood.
Best,
PV Rich
Mineral oil is a good choice, recommended for cutting blocks because it does not go rancid. You are thinking of vegetable oils, they are definitly not recommended. I have a butcher block in my kitchen on the mainland that has been in use for over 20 years. Sand out the knife cuts and burn marks, reapply the mineral oil about every 4 years. Good as new. The mineral oil does dry and everything wipes up, with no contamination of one food product to another.
I'm glad it has worked for, but it was mineral oil and it did start to smell. ??
Rich
I wonder if it was a reaction with the wood, mine is kiln dried pine. The reason I ask this is that if an oily wood was used it could be a reaction with the natural oil. Just some food for thought.
minerial oil dose not go rancid , vegtable oils do!
Hi,
Maybe I'm saying it the wrong way. Rancid sounds like it smells bad. That isn't what happened. It seemed to develope a "film" that was not quite sticky, but close to it. We had to use a french knife to scrape off the crud. It was similar to the color of the maple, but it wasn't maple shavings - it was the oil.
Rich
I've installed them twice. They were butcher block style birch (I think?) countertops that the customer purchased at Ikea. I did not do any of the finishing, but I saw the end result of both. One customer used a simple oil rub (linseed?) over the countertops. They looked fantastic...for about 15 minutes. Everything stained and/or left a mark on them.
The other customer used a bartop epoxy to entirely coat the countertops. The countertops had a definate gloss to them, but seemed to be more practical in terms of everyday use, cleanup, etc...
As far as the gas cooktop goes, I don't see a problem. The cooktop itself doesn't get hot around the edges. I would guess there wouldn't be an issue.
I saw a good idea over at a friend's house for a stove. He ordered an extra piece of countertop stock and milled to to the stove specs. When the stove is not in use, he placed the "countertop" directly on the stovetop. He has a small kitchen, and it looked sharp and helped maximize space.
The countertops are pretty straitforward on the install. The most difficult part will be if you need to join two sections together. The seam needs to be absolutely perfectly strait. Then use doweling or biscuits to glue the edges together. Use POLY glue to join them, and coat the whole seam. Otherwise water will seep into the crack and cause the counters to swell/contort at the seam.
--Andy
You didn't say if you're going to make them yourself or buy them ready made. Many industrial suppliers that sell warehouse equipement etc., also supply workbench tops (and steel bases and cabinets). They are made of maple and are already coated with a tough finish. Here is a link that will give you an idea of what I'm talking about. Check locally and you may be able to get them cheaper and without the shipping costs.
http://www.labsafety.com/search/default.htm?x=25&y=3&N=539&Ntk=LSSSearch&Nu=dept_id&Ntx=mode%2Bmatchpartialmax&Ntt=bench+tops
Great link, QC. Thank you.Tipi, Tipi, Tipi!
http://www.asmallwoodworkingcompany.com
My wife and I made and installed a heartwood cherry countertop in our kitchen on the portion of counter we use for eating, etc. (Granite on the other side of the kitchen around the sink and stove - see below.) It's 1-1/2" thick and we made it by ripping stock to 1-1/2" X 1-1/2" and gluing them together with poly glue & biscuits. We did it this way because I couldn't find any good cherry boards that thick long enough/straight enough for the counter (11'-6") -- we butted the ends of the ripped boards in a staggered pattern to get the finished length.
We finished it with an oil finish we got at a local hardware store that's used for cutting boards, salad bowls, countertops, etc. (If you want, I can get you the name of the product when I get home later -- it's something lame, like "Wood Surface Treatment" or . . . ?) It needs to be refinished about once per year, but it's as easy as rubbing a bit of the oil into the surface with a scotchbrite pad. Takes about 15 minutes. It is not sticky at all. We did not fasten the top to the cabs so we could slide it out a bit to oil it occasionally without worrying about getting oil on the walls. It's heavy enough that it's stable without being fastened.
We don't "baby" it -- we cut on it, pound on it, roll dough out on it, etc. The idea was that we prefer it to look "well used", like a counter in an old bakery, rather than like a piece of fine furniture. It quickly developed that warm, nut-brown look of old cherry. Very nice. If your customer wants their kitchen countertop to look like a fine dining table for more than about a half-a-day though, I'd steer them towards another material.
We are very happy with the results and would do it again in a heartbeat. It looks great & was WAY cheaper than stone. Total out-of-pocket was around $250 - about $10/sq ft.
I wouldn't put it near the sink, stove or any moisture (like the steam from a dishwasher for example), though. Heat and/or moisture will create nightmares for wood, with mold, warping, checking, etc. That's why we used granite on the other side of the kitchen. (The color of the cherry goes well with the color of the granite we selected.) That said, we don't worry about the countertop getting wet once in a while. Just don't let it sit too long.
Also, you need to be careful about putting anything steel, like cans, on it when they may get wet and sit a while. Oxidation from the metal will quickly leave dark stains on the wood. (Daughter using the apple peeler = juice all over the counter + didn't clean up right away + can in the puddle = Doooh!) Still, even these stains can be scraped or sanded out pretty easily. Also, avoid any soft wood or wood with an open grain like oak or walnut. Other than cherry or maple, there are some exotics, like cocobolo, that would look really cool.
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
I was thinking of putting a small section in my kitchen. Are there any differences to consider if its end (short) grain up versus the traditional butcher-block style long grain up? (That is to say differences where the grain is vertical instead of horizontal.)
> "Are there any differences to consider if its end (short) grain up versus> the traditional butcher-block style long grain up?"
Actually, traditional butcher blocks are end grain up. However, because that grain orientation is not very strong laterally, a traditional butcher block needs to be THICK! End grain countertops are not something I would recommend because, in order to have any strenght at all, they either need to be about 6" thick or built up over a substrate like plywood. Even then, they'll be more susceptible to cracking. Also, end grain will soak up the nasties more and be harder to keep sanitary. Stick with long grain for countertops.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Thanks for the info Mike. I suppose long grain is easier to build anyway.
We used a 4" end grain Boos buther block (~$1K) near the sink, but separated by soapstone. Below the butcher block is a pullout trash can for cleanup. With frequent oiling (mineral oil) it has performed flawlessly. There is no way I would put wood next to a wet area, with the possible exception of teak, and then I would worry about it holding up to abuse from pots and pans.
Hope this helps...
That's a real good look and an enviable kitchen.
Can you give me a source for the John Boos butcher block top of that size? I'm doing a similar kitchen island (not quite that big unfortunately) and the I've only been able to find 18"X 18" end grain...I'd like one about 30X20, if I could get one...any suggestions?
Thanks.
PS the kitchen looks great!
Thank you for the compliment. We built all the cabinets after framing out the addition. It was a two year project... I am slow and expensive.
John Boos has a list of dealers on their web site. I recall that I had to contact a few in order to find a good price. The same product varied significantly between vendors. I think the main issue was finding a dealer that was not a specialty kitchen tool supplier.
I'll take a look at home at our invoice and pass on the vendor. Take a look here first, maybe there is someone local to you...
http://www.johnboos.com/
Dean
Dean,
Thanks for the link and any info from the vender would be great...
It's funny there are so many things about the kitchen that you did that we are trying to do to...the white cabinets, the soapstone, butcher block recessed in the cabinets...Looks like you stole our "idea" folder...
We are in the sixth (and final) year of restoration/rehabilitation of our home. Of course the big ticket item (the kitchen) is last and should firmly solidify our position in financial ruin...but hey, at least we'll have a nice house....
Again, nice work.
Here are a few additional photos. One looking toward the stove and another looking toward the refrigerator/pantry.
The boos vendor was Pro Kitchen Inc in Maryland. Best price/friendly service.
http://prokitchen.com/index.php?cPath=31_47
They brokered the sale and had the block direct shipped from the factory.
You will know you are finished when you run out of money...
"You will know you are finished when you run out of money..."
Hey, I guess I could have stopped all this slaving along time ago...Should have told the wife...
Thanks for info and the pics...you even "stole" the subway tile backslpash...Again nice work...and I appreciate the info.
Boos is in Lowe's, too Hey, pocket doors can't come off the track if they're nailed open
Wood plus water =no good on house outside, kitchen floors or kitchen cabinet tops.
and to think...they used to make wooden boats.
Treat every person you meet like you will know them the rest of your life - you just might!
wooden boats- probably easier to build
than to own and paint and caulk and paint and caulk and...
Maybe 3 years ago, there was a thread here about wood countertops. Someone provided a few links to outfits that manufacture them. They looked great. At the time I had just built a craftsman style vanity for one of my own bathrooms, so I decided to try doing a countertop for it as well. Used 6/4 QS white oak to match the vanity. Used a home made oil/varnish for the finish.Everybody who sees it loves the look, and it was stood up very well, but I would not be likely to do it again.The only reason it still looks good is because it is only used by 2 adults, and we baby it to death -- wiping up water spots as they occur, etc. I can't imagine what something like this would look like if kids were involved, or if you used it in a kitchen with food spills and the like.On the other hand, if you had a high tolerance for worn-looking wood finishes, and were willing to refinish it periodically (relatively easy with a wipe on oil/varnish, you might like it. Certainly, it has a unique look to it. ********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
Thanks everyone - what a great fount of info!
One thing that worries me a little, especially after reading some of the posts, is that the issue of marking/staining. This particular client is extremely anal about cleanliness - his kitchen looks like an operating room. But maybe in this instance, that is a positive trait - he will take care of this wood top - I doubt he would let a drop of water linger for more than a couple seconds.
Anyway, thanks again for all the great input. I haven't visited this forum for a while and had forgotten what a great bunch of builders and craftspeople frequent this site. Guess I'll visit more often.
Sounds like your anal customer should get National Sanitation Foundation-approved engineered stone countertops. Let me know.
Here's a company that I have used in the ast they are located in No.Cal.
http://www.perfectplank.com/
Hope it helps you or anyone else how might be interested...
Check out John Boos, they make an excellent line of wood countertops.
Their treatment is called 'mystery oil', works quite well.
http://www.johnboos.com
Again, Total agreement, there is none better than boos for a quality mass marketed product.I sa an IKEA once. The owner was proud of it, so I had to bite my tongue. Next to a Boos, it is a #4
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I sheepishly admit that I have a temp Swedish one (I blame the DW) the real thing is coming shortly. I am anything but proud of it though.This message will self distruct in 60 seconds....
Get a bottle of walnut oil from your friendly neighborhood health food store. Compatible with food, doesn't stay sticky, or get rancid.
I've also had good luck on cutting boards with your basic Watco oil. Gets good and hard.
Bruce
Between the mountains and the desert ...
Do you think Watco oil would be compatible with food?
The walnut oil suggestion is interesting - I never heard of it being used in this 'application'. I'm going to try it on my cutting board.
thanks.
Any oil is harmless, IF it is completely cured -- which takes a maximum of 30 days.That some oils are harmful to food is a myth propagated by Behlen's -- makers of the "salad bowl finish."If you're interested, I can provide the info source for this.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
I love mine- I made them a couple years ago, after looking at Boos and others- I wanted something a bit more distinctive. They're maple and jatoba, glued up with yellow glue, and a mineral oil and wax finish reapplied about every 6 months.
There are some stains there, but I'm fine with that. The scratches you see will all disappear with the next application of oil, if not before. I don't think there would be any stains if I were a bit more anal about cleaning up quickly after I cook. I do all my chopping, bread making, etc, there, and it's very durable- no scorching either.
zak
wow - very nice!
"no scorching" - so you can set a pan off the stove on the wood? - or are you just careful about it?
No, I don't set pans from the stove on it until they've cooled down a little, but that doesn't seem difficult, just common sense. A pan that was boiling water can go on the wood, but not a cast iron skillet that you were just stir-frying in. But like I said, I'm really not that careful with it. And it is under the stove top and right against the oven, and that spot there has no scorching. I remember I spent about $120 for both sides for the wood.zak
First, a couple of points. And from what I've already read, not all will agree with me, so take the following for whatever you want.
What type of grain? End-grain or edge grain. Big distinction. They look different, handle differently, fabricate differently, and behave differently.
I wouldn't cut on an edge-grain. It's likely that by doing so you'll eventually splinter the grain. Not always for certain, but it's likely. Moisture can get into that slice and lift the cut edge, creating just eno8gh or a micro-lip where long-range problems may occur. If you want a used/abused loom, that's fine. But those cuts can create problems.
For cutting, either use a cutting board on the edge-grain, or do an end-grain butcher block. Whack all day on a good end-grain slab and it'll laugh at you. End-grain is self-healing, like a bristle dart board.
Finishes? For one that will be cut on, use a penetrating oil, food-safe, like mineral oil or one of the non-film salad bowl finishes. In general, when film finishes are damaged by knives, it can create problems. A penetrating finish on wood is easy to renew.
Food safe vs non-food safe. Sure, some films are fod safe when cured. But I woudn't put anyhting with chemical driers on a food countertop.
Water? Some woods handle it better than others. Some woods can withstand the edge grain exposed to water, others can have edge or end grain exposed. Some can handle it if covered with a cured film finish.
Stoves? See if your local code allows wood next to cooktops. Some have setback restrictions.
What type of wood? Quite a few species can be used in an edge-grain application. Some are better than others, and some will REQUIRE a film sealer or they just won't hold up. Some will do best in a show kitchen others can handle the abuse of a working kitchen. some can handle a working kitchen is well maintained.
A lot of variables.
There are only a few woods that I'd recommend for end-grain. You need a wood with a tight grain pattern.
I'll post a couple pics of teak countertops. One is a teak end-grain butcherblock. This thing has been hacked and whacked on for years with no visible signs of wear. It's about 5" thick. Teak. Epoxied together with West Systems. Finished with mineral oil. Requires renewal only once every several months.
The countertops in the background are 30" deep, 8/4 teak, they are four planks edge-glued with biscuits and epoxy. There is a dishwasher under one section. I set a piece of Al flashing under that section of countertop to hold off the moisture vented by the dishwasher.
There is also an undermount sink, the teak has exposed edge and end grain to the sink. Daily use with zero water damage. The teak around the sink does get washed out (lighter color) due to all the scrubbing on the surface, it gets renewed wth mineral oil once every several months, or I might do it if company is coming over.
This kitchen getss beat on by a family of four that cooks on a daily basis. My kids have several teen sleepovers each month. The teak is still in primo shape.
Mineral oil will not go rancid. However. if water gets on it immediately after it is applied and the water is allowed to stand on it for a while, it will emulsify and show water spots. The spots are temporary. They can be wiped off right away or be left alone and after a few hours they will nautrally disappear. After a day or two, water will not spot the mineral oil.
A mineral oil/beeswax mix will also give a nice finish.
Mongo
I would disagree with you about avoiding edge grain- The wood should be appropriate, of course, like maple, ash, birch, etc., but I've used edge grain countertops and cutting boards a lot and never had a problem. When I worked in a bakery every counter was edge grain maple. My father has an edge grain cutting board countertop that was recycled from a bakery, where it was originally installed about 80 years ago. They've all seen a lot of abuse, and no splintering. I like a good end grain butcher block- they are harder, but I wouldn't hesitate to use either one in my kitchen.zak
Not a problem, zak. Like you, I'm happy with both surfaces in my kitchen.I have no concerns at all with cutting on an edge-grain cutting board, because they are disposable. But most wood edge-grain countertops will show the wear from knife edges and meat cleavers sooner than later. Also depends on if the wood is quartersawn/vertical grain or flatsawn. That can make a huge difference in potential splintering or lifting from water selling the grain.More importantly, there is a HUGE difference in what you and I are willing to accept when we make wood countertops for our own kitchens, and what are expectations are, and what I'd recommend to someone doing a wood countertop for a customer.As you mentioned, some wood species can handle knife edges better than others, and I'd venture that even within a single species that the maple used by some fabricators today isn't the same quality as your Dad's 80-year old maple.Of the few that I'm familiar with where I live, I don't know any baker (2) or caterer (3) that uses knives on the same wood countertops that they roll dough or work pastry on. The dough tends to stick in the cut marks on the wood. With today's food restrictions, commercial food-use surfaces have pretty much become single-use surfaces, and the types of surfaces have become more restricted.How times have changed.Just be aware that those scratches on your wood countertop that you don't mind might cost you a customer callback and the requirement to fabricate a new countertop for a customer who wants a showroom kitchen 24/7.Still, just my opinion. I'm not here to convert the masses.Best, Mongo
Edited 3/11/2006 4:14 pm ET by Mongo
I agree with your caveat that an edge grain countertop won't look showroom after you've been chopping on it- I've never been one for the showroom look, but I know those people are out there. In the bakery I worked at, it was standard to chop on a countertop, scrape it off with a bench knife, and then shape bread or pastries there. except for a once or twice a week scrub, all the cleaning was done with bench knife. No meat on these countertops of course.I chose high quality hard maple for my countertop, so I can't speak for the wood that might be in the premade countertops like the ones at Ikea and Lumber Liquidators.zak
just curoius what about heart pine? i have some 140yo (cut 140years ago) was prob 100/200 years old when cut, heart pine 12"x16" and i wanted an end grain counter... found a guy with a bandsaw mill.. that will slice em up for me i was think'n 4.5" slabs so i could cut/sq em up on a 10" saw....
thanks in advance
p
First, I have to 'fess up that I've never worked with heart pine for a countertop.So what I'll address is more what I think than what I've done. I guess that qualitifes as the "grain of salt" disclaimer?<g>I'm not sure if you'll have to set the pitch on the heart pine. Others will know more about that than me.As to movement, there is good and bad. The bad? Pine will move more than other woods that have been talked about like teak or maple.Example...radial rates for teak are around 2.5, maple about 3.0 or so. Tangnetial teak is about 5.6, maple 7.0 or so. Tangential/radial for teak and maple are both about 2.3.Usinbg longleaf for heart pine, you hare radial 5.0, tangential 7.5, t/r of 1.5.So with the higher rates of movement, pine will move more than teak or maple.However, comparing the T/R, the grain orientation, while always important, will be less important with the pine than with maple or teak.Heart pine is hard, has tight grain, those are good characteristics. Check into the pitch, though, and see if it has to be set. Still, when glueing up a large slab, since the overall movement will be a factor, your best chances of success are like any other top...good grain orientation and good joinery.If the grain is steady and consistent in your pieces, that makes things easier as you could join larger end-grain pieces together. If it's more varied, then you might want to make them smaller to get the orientation on all pieces somewhat uniform.Somewhat of a mish-mash answer, but hopefully it'll help a bit.
I agree, mineral oil doesn't go rancid. It works fine, but for even better protection use a 50/50 mix of mineral oil and paraffin. Melt it together carefully (of course it's flammable) and rub it into the butcher block while warm. After it cools off and solidifies, scrape the excess from the top using a scraper and then use a cloth to rub the remaining wax/oil mixture into the top.
Here's the science behind the wax/oil mix: the oil penetrates into the wood and the wax fills all the micro cracks, unglued glue joints, cut marks (even in edge grain) to help prevent moisture and bad stuff from getting into the top. It buffs up nicely too.
I keep the mixture in a covered can in the back of my fridge and just heat it up when it's time to renew the top.
After all, Boos uses a paraffin/mineral oil mix to finish its blocks for sale:http://www.butcherblockshop.com/html/john_boos.html
Billy
Edited 3/14/2006 4:22 am ET by Billy
To ALL,
Good post, read it all,may have missed this point. Hard Maple supposedly has a high Tannins content along with other naturally occurring chemical compounds that actually kill harmful bacteria.
DAVE
Billy, that mix is a good one.
Thanks Billy, I'll try that mix. I've been using mainly mineral oil, and the wax/oil mix sounds like it might last a little longer and provide more surface protection.
zak
Sure, the mix isn't that sensitive. You can make it 1/3 wax or 1/4 wax if the wood is thirsty for oil.
Billy
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=26588.1
this link has some photos of my kitchen with wood countertops that I made a few years back.
cje
It is my understanding that, at least in the past, boiled linseed oil contained metallic driers that were considered at least somewhat toxic, thus the recommendation to not use boiled linseed oil on surfaces where food is prepared. A couple of links mentioning using oils on butcher block:
http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Recommended_finishes_for_cutting_boards.html
http://www.canadianhomeworkshop.com/diy/everything_finish.shtmlUndoubtedly many others out there.
very nice-what is the wood? are they still viable?
I have had no problems whatsoever with these counter tops.
They are oak and like I said in the other string they are stained and ploy'ed both sides--about 6 layers.
It's been over three years and they need to have a new layer of poly applied--but we have no problem with water damage from the sink or dishwaher--the only damge has come from our kids useing knives on them.
If I did it again I would use thicker stock.
cjeTake what you want, leave the rest
How did you make those tops? I'm picturing just gluing up a bunch of boards, clamping them together........maybe this is a dumb question, but how do you smooth the surface?
I made these counters before i realised the joy of having a planer--so I simply glued boards together using a biscuit cutter to align the tops and clamped--I then carefully sanded.
They ain't perfect but they work out pretty well
cjeTake what you want, leave the rest
Looks pretty smooth in your photo!
I do have a 12" planer, I guess I could glue up pieces in 12" widths. plane them smooth, and then in turn glue those up to get a 36" wide counter, which is what I'm looking for..........would probably be cheaper than the $1,600 they quoted me at a local shop (for a 3'x8'x1.5" island).
Or maybe find a 36" wide planer................
36" thickness planers might be a bit pricey. However, there have been several articles on do-it-yourself thickness sanders. Perhaps you could get the countertop close enough with what you have described plus some hand planing for the final squeeze outs and then hit with a wide thickness sander. Just yesterday I saw plans in one of the woodworking magazine on building one yourself (don't recall the name, one of those with only a few pages and no advertisements) plus there are some plans on the Internet. All that I have seen use disks cut from plywood for the drum. It must work, but I wonder just how smooth the surface of such a drum is.One set of plans:http://www.mimf.com/archives/thickness_sander2.htm
just to let you know you don't have to do it all yourself- my local hardwood supplier has a 36" belt sander and an 18" planer. He runs stuff through for free most times, once in a while he'll charge $5. it's definitely the way to go. You should see if your area has someone like him.
zak
hey those are great suggestions.
I don't know about you guys, but sometimes, when I get a quote for something (stamped concrete/faux finish/custom cabinet, etc), I say to myself: WOW-if there's that much money in that, I should be doing it myself!
always regret it later tho.
"...I guess I could glue up pieces in 12" widths. plane them smooth, and then in turn glue those up to get a 36" wide counter..."
That's what I did a couple years ago for the countertops in our new house. Ended up having to sand the entire top anyway so that one glue line (our top was 23" without the self edge) in the middle wasn't bad.
One thing I haven't heard mentioned here is the old "recycled bowling alley" trick. There is a network of used building materials suppliers nowdays, and I'd be surprised if you couldn't find one nearby. I know the one in Seattle has a wharehouse full of these old bowling alleys and they sell them cheap. We paid...I'm pretty sure it was 190 buckeroos for way more than enough to do all the countertops in that little kitchen. Tipi, Tipi, Tipi!
http://www.asmallwoodworkingcompany.com
I bought some old bowling alley material some years ago for a workbench top. The guy selling it would not sell it to anyone for kitchen counters. Said that the bowling alley lanes were treated with toxic chemicals that would leach into any food set on them. Have no idea what types of treatments more recent alleys might receive.
I wish I hadn't read that, Casey. But thanks.Tipi, Tipi, Tipi!
http://www.asmallwoodworkingcompany.com
I installed the beach counter top material from Ikea about $350 , 30 lineal feet which includes a 4' wide section of breakfast bar and finished it with Varathain water base Diamond satin finish [ about 5 coats ] top and bottom . Stain proof and very easy to recoat if necessary . At each joint I butted them together and from underneath placed a piece of 3/4" x 1 1/2" oak over the seam and screwed it to each piece , on top I mixed up some dap 230 Almond and Brown to come close to the color of the tops after they were finished and put a small amount in the seam to keep crumbs from wedging in the joint this also keeps liquids from getting down into the joint .
A while back my father cut and milled a good pile of Cherry off his property in Wisconsin. I'm out in Oregon and put in some cherry cabinets. I wanted a butcher block counter on one lower working cabinet so I asked my old man to glue up some of the material in slabs small enough to UPS out to me. He sent me three pieces which I then biscuited and glued up for a top.
I 'olive oiled' it to finish and we've been using it as is since. Every once in a while it gets a little dry and I just rub some more olive oil into it.
We liked it so much I asked him if he'd send out some more for around the stove. These blocks are edge grain and plenty hard, but around the stove, the end grain will suck up a stain pretty readily. Some type of flashing around the stove would prevent this.
Best wishes,
Pat
We've lived wooden countertops for years, love them, and are about to install new ones in a re-built kitchen. It is certainly true that they are not for those who want everything to look perfect all the time; it is wood, it does wear, it does stain, it does cut (we always use cutting boards, never cut on the counter). We have some maple sort-of butcher block (i.e., edge grain laminated, not end grain pieces, the authentic thing) and we finish them with...(are you ready)...cooking oil. Yup. I kept yelling it would get rancid, my wife said "stuff a sock in it" and lays on the cooking oil. I only scrape it down every few years, and she pours on the oil again. The tops we just tore out were about 25 years old, and were garden variety red oak strip flooring, finished with oil based gloss polyurethane. They held up well, though the areas immediately around the sink got pretty lousy looking towards the end. We've also done several in cherry, finished with multiple coats of natural danish oil (Watco). These are recent, so I can't tell you about durability, but, after about a year, so far so good. We've also installed several wooden vanity tops, also cherry, finished with multiple coats of tung oil. So far, these are just gorgeous, and seem to be wearing quite well.
One admonition: wood moves. I've built the cherry tops by gluing up multiple boards, no more than 4" wide, alternating grain direction (though very much trying to use quarter sawn material to avoid any cupping problems), with biscuits, and gluing-up with Titebond III. I only fasten these at the fronts of the cabinets and let the rest float, so it can seasonally move back and forth. I've attached the backsplash to the wall, not the top, so the top can move under the backsplash, and left about 3/4" gap at the rear when the material is dryest to allow for movement. I never noticed any movement issues with the maple butcher block.