The pump jack pole on the left end is supported by the scaffold. No upper bracket is used.
Would any of you guys approve of this and would you work off this setup?
Would OSHA approve this?…I’m curious
The pump jack pole on the left end is supported by the scaffold. No upper bracket is used.
Would any of you guys approve of this and would you work off this setup?
Would OSHA approve this?…I’m curious
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Replies
hmmm...i might, IF that scaffolding was also guyed off in other direction.... don't think I'd send a hired hand up there.
Don't use scaffolding anymore anyhow -- use a lift.
Which other direction?
I used 2 guywires in the rear and with the cross bracing, it's solid.
I'd say you have a shot at OSHA approving it if you were harnessed and tied off. That's just a guess though.
As far as working off of it.... looks like something I'd try. Would I send an employee up there... depends on how it felt. I'd have to have a better look at it and walk it to know for sure how I felt about it.
and how you felt about the employee I imagine...
Thanks for the replies. I was curious if OSHA would allow it and what some of you pro's would have to say about it. I've never seen it done by anyone, and I just came up with the idea myself.
This is the second time I've used this type of set up. The first time, the scaffold was used to support the 2 center jack poles on the other gable end of the house. The reason being was to eliminate mounting the standoff brackets on the siding(which I was replacing)and still reach the 30' peak. Plus...the brackets on the 2 end poles were attached to roof brackets. This allowed full unobstructed access to the soffits and rake boards, all of which I replaced.
I'd like you to tell us why that left pole is so far...........left!
I'm assuming that it was put there to work on the shed roof portion of the structure, but then, couldn't it have been moved over??
I don't think I'd have a big problem with it, but between my son and I, we are only about 300# total!
I have no experience with osha, and would like to keep it that way.
Eric
I Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
[email protected]
2 reasons why I did it this way...
First...the bulkhead doors for the basement are located right where I would like to have put the pole. When I initially did the siding job, I built a platform above the doors and placed the jack pole on top of that. Worked fine, but I couldn't use the basement door for quite a while...like over a year...I'm a little slow<G> With the scaffold set up where it is now, I can still open the doors.
Second...by using the scaffold this time, I have a solid base to set up a 20' plank to access the upper gable wall above the shed roof. When I did the siding the first time, one end of the 20' plank was resting on a ladder against the chimney and the other end resting on the outer end of the planks from the pump jacks behind the house. Sort of like a cantilever effect. It worked OK but was a little hairy. So this time with the pole mounted further to the left, the 20' plank will end up on the inside of the pole instead of on the outside. Hopefully I explained that so you would understand it.
In case you ask...this current job is what I think you guys call a 'call back'. I have to replace about 10 sq of siding that I had already installed. Defective product...time and materials is on the manufactures dime, but I also have to correct my own errors. The pictures don't really show it, but I made a few mistakes.
I think the only thing OSHA would disaprove of are no guard rails.
Guard rails not only make it super sage but also serve as a work bench so why not?
Other than that its looks perfectly safe to me.
Be well and safe
a...
The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..
OSHA would probably not allow this setup...The standards state that you must use the components of one system by one manufacturer. You are not allowed to mix components..
Interesting point...
Being a diy HO, I doubt I have to worry about an OSHA visit.
...or do I?
don't quote me to the osha inspector.. but i think you can work on it.. as long as no one else is
as for the staging..it looks like the kind of mickey mouse thing i would have dreamed up twenty years ago...
now... we either stage it right or foggeddaboutit
so "A" for innovation
but "D" for safety Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
all right .. all right..
i took another look.. i like the double planks
i like the guy wires... the U-clamps... the solid braces in one direction and the guy wires in the other..
to me .. it's a red flag.. it'll draw osha inspectors like flys to sh------ugar
and you spent too much time building it..
next time think about renting a lift
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
>>and you spent too much time building it..<<
if u only knew...;)
It'd probably be cheaper for me to buy the lift than rent it...<G>
the boards are not ohsa approved
really??
what meets their requirements, alum?
or is it that they want full dimensional planks?
cave .. i burned all the photos of the staging i built like that
you know...trying to set a good example by not telling your kids about the things we used to do ?
anyways... must be a slow nite if you're willing to put it out there
good on ya Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
99% of the job is just me, and 1% helper when needed.
>>as for the staging..it looks like the kind of mickey mouse thing i would have dreamed up twenty years ago...<<
coming from you Mike, I'll take it as a compliment...LOL
I'll keep the 'A' too, but a 'D' in safety?? :(
Actually I thought I would get kicked in the shins a few times for doing it that way. Your the first...
anyway, thanks for the input
No, you don't.Andy Engel
Senior editor, Fine Woodworking magazine
Other people can talk about how to expand the destiny of mankind. I just want to talk about how to fix a motorcycle. I think that what I have to say has more lasting value. --Robert M. Pirsig
That's good news fer yours truly.I have neighbors that would love to turn me in for something like that if they could...
The person you offend today, may have been your best friend tomorrow It is easy to be friends with someone you always agree with.Free Sancho ! (When you buy Gunner for 3 easy monthly payments of just $1.50)
Hammer is right, Caveman. This is so far off of what OSHA would allow it hurts to think about it. OSHA inspectors love going to a work site and seeing wood scaffolding, because it is almost never made with scaffold grade wood. After that no matter how well made or sturdy it is, you are in violation. I always tell my clients if you have to wonder if it is in violation, it probably is.
>>I always tell my clients if you have to wonder if it is in violation, it probably is<<
Well said...
I'll remember that too
Thanx...good to know
There is nothing wrong with that stagging .
Mike - Foxboro
looks lik he did what he had to do to get the job done on his own project...
lots of thougt had to have gone into it and I'd get up there...
safer than in Goldhiller's work shop....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
>>safer than in Goldhiller's work shop....<<
You sure about that?????
LMAO
yup...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Alright now. That's enough of that talk.How the he!! am I gonna lure anybody else out there if you get 'em all worked up ahead of time? You're ruinin' my well-laid plans.I been busy in my spare time tryin' to get fencer wires run in the most likely tater drainin' places. All I need now is a liitle help from Mr. Springtime to grow those vines and I'm ready for company. LOLBring 'em on! I'll supply lots of beer and set up a video-cam. Motion activated, of course.Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
I nknew it was a set up...
Gunner put you up to it ... didn't he....
both of you are still chucklin' I'll bet...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
If Imerc does a repeat show, you could turn that video gig into a sitcom
probably make prime time too...
;)
so what are you trying to do now...
fry the rest of my jewels or get my other hand broken too...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
who me????????
Ya know...think about it
"Redneck Road Ranger" has a nice ring to it
never mind the sitcom, let's do a box office bustin movie
bet we'll give Chevy Chase a run for his money too...
;)
CHEVY!!!!
gotta do better than that..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
aw, come on...he ain't that bad
besides it's only a comedy
could have been worse...
Abbott and Costello
Laurel and Hardy
Three Stooges...oops, make that 2
GD&R
anybody but that jerk..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
exactly
you been to gold hillers shop too???
ROAR!!!
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
You used Tyvek ???
OSHA aughtta shoot you !
; )
The person you offend today, may have been your best friend tomorrow
It is easy to be friends with someone you always agree with.Free Sancho ! (When you buy Gunner for 3 easy monthly payments of just $1.50)
what's plan "B"???
cant felt under that type of siding he's using...
Mfgr says not only no but hell no....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
No no no, you have it all wrong.Way too reasonable.Yer supposed to respond with some kind of statement that anyone who uses tarpaper should be drawn and quartered...; )
The person you offend today, may have been your best friend tomorrow It is easy to be friends with someone you always agree with.Free Sancho ! (When you buy Gunner for 3 easy monthly payments of just $1.50)
we can tar and feather for the entertainment value...
who needs a reason....
let's have at Mr Stone age...
but I agree with ya on the Tyveck issue....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Can't even start a good argument anymore!!!
Mr T
I can't afford to be affordable anymore
Hey...I used 'piffen screws' too :)
doesn't that count for something??...anything??
Caveman, I won't comment about whether this is osha approved since I don't have a clue.
I am curious though, why you didn't just skip the pump jack and just lay the planks on and outrigger on the scaffold, or just set them on one of the scaffold rails?
Even if this setup is osha approved, it's a situation that my tagline addresses.
blue
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
If I used the scaffold rails to set the planks on, then everytime I needed to raise or lower the other jacks, I'd have to hump those planks up and down the scaffold. Double 16' 2x12's aren't exactly light...and I'm sure you already know that. ;) The way it's set up now, I can move the 40' of planks up and down using just the jacks.
It's not like I have to raise and lower it a million times, but there are times that I need to. Besides all the demo work, it works perfectly when the time comes to haul back up 2--20' pieces of wrap for the fascia, without damaging them. Sadly, I have to replace them again too.
Caveman, I'm not seeing the need for you to move the entire 40' scaffold walkway up and down.
I'd move the fixed scaffold in closer and work off it direct using standard sized planks. I'd then bridge between the walk plank set up on the pumpjacks with a shorty...about a 7' plank if my eyes are correct. Using that setup, when you decided to adjust your height, you'd have to loosen up a 7' plank, adjust the pumpjacks, raise the standard plank, then re-lay the 7' plank. I'm guessing that fooling around with that 7' plank would add about 35 seconds each time you move.
There isn't anyway I could justify taking all the time to do all that scaffold boogerin'...
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
Oh, I guess I misunderstood you.
Yes I can see that your suggestion would also work, and alot less "booogerin" too LOL
Plus your way would have let me set the poles at a 10' spacing. But doing it the way I did, also gives me much more piece of mind when I have to tackle the upper gable wall around the corner. I would feel much safer by resting the 20' plank...to access the peak of the gable wall...on all the mass of the jack planks, than just a couple planks set on the scaffold. At 20' up, the visual perception I get of that 20 ftr being supported by a couple 12 ft'rs on the scaffold is a little too queasy.
FWIW...I doubt it really matters, but the spacing of my pipe scaffold poles is just shy of 10' and not the standard 7'or 8'(?). I made the cross braces myself, to accommodate the jack pole spacing I needed when I did the gable wall on the other end of the house.
OSHA would require, back rails, toe boards, end rails, no walk zone below or nets, approved planks, additional brackets at mid span on the poles, pole foot anchors, mending plates at the joints on the poles, the poles must be free from checks, dead knots, spike knots, splits, etc. two sets of X bracing on the poles and that's just for starters. They will require that you have your written fall protection plan on hand. You will have to have written records of your safety training sessions. A qualified person has to inspect the scaffold at the beginning of every shift, again a written record must be kept.
I wouldn't even have a guess as to how they might look at the rig with the pipe staging. Your butt is already so far in the sling it probably wouldn't matter. If there is one thing you can do that will really tick them off, it is ignoring OSHA standards. As long as you can show that you have been making serious attempts to understand and comply with the rules, they will work with you. With the picture you have shown, it is evident you don't understand fall protection compliance. It's been around since the early 90's so you haven't any logical excuse. They will most certainly fine you with that set up. Once upon a time that would have seemed like a super highway to work on. Today it is illegal.
There's nothing quite like the joy of reading OSHA standards. They have tried to put them in easy to understand language but things are complicated. There are tons of different scaffolds for all types of work. The link below has some good information. The section on pump jacks is just about half way down the long page. If you are working in a visible area you'd be smart to do your homework.
http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=FEDERAL_REGISTER&p_id=13573
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Thanks for the link. Very informative, and it taught me a bit more about pump jacks. One thing caught my eye though...10' max pole spacing. Mine are at 13'...oops :) Yet I have seen guys use similar spacing around here before.
I think I should have been a little more explicit in my first post. I was mainly interested in what would be said about supporting the jack pole with scaffold. I'm not surprised that comments would be made about no additional rails, toeboards, etc, but I'll have to agree I'm lacking in fall protection. Having already taken the plunge once...20' fall and knocked out, while "home alone", I truly know the value of fall protection....and believe me I do!! But as far as the actual safety and strength of the set up I put together, it's solid. I'd trust it enough to allow my DW or daughter to get on it...except I doubt they would. They don't like heights!! In fact you best described it as....
>>Once upon a time that would have seemed like a super highway to work on. <<
...because that's what it feels like to me. I'll admit one thing though, after reading that OSHA link, I plan to beef up the underside of the planks ASAP. The 13' pole span does present a little too much spring for me. To eliminate it for now, I just clamped the overlapping planks together. I'll definitely beef them up now.
Thanks again for your input and the informative link
Caveman, I have no doubt OSHA would shut your scaffold down the minute they saw it. I don't think scaffolding was designed to support pump jack poles lashed to them, and a load that is pulling them to one side. But I'd work on it. Very few of the scaffolds I work on every day would be approved by OSHA.
Allen in Santa Cruz
Well based on the majority here, it appears that OSHA would throw the book at me.
But since you and several others say you would still work on it, I'll sleep better<G>
Thanks for the vote of confidence...
I think you can extend the span on your poles to match the planks capacity. With Aluma pole systems we stretch 16' to match the aluminum plank. If you are a homeowner, you can do as you dare. If you have an employee, you have to meet the standards. Some areas of the country are not as well enforced as others. If an OSHA inspector saw your set up around here, you would get a visit and quite possibly an expensive lesson. I always hate it when a cop or judge tells me what I did wrong and what it's going to cost. When it comes to setting up compliant scaffolding, it doesn't take much extra time. Having back rails and solid poles is a more comfortable way to work. Starting a safety plan doesn't have to be tough either. A simple fifteen minute skull session with the workers about a safety topic is a start. Take down the date, what was discussed, who was there and what actions, if any, you will take. Every time you buy a chemical, paint, stain, ask for the MSDS and put it in a binder that stays on the job truck. Make sure there is an organized first aid kit on the job and people know how to deal with an emergencyThere can be resistance with some people but it's the law and they have to get with the program. You don't enter a commercial job here, without your personal protective gear, or you are escorted out immediately. As an employer it is your responsibility to provide a safe working environment, your employees have the right to expect it. Providing safety glasses, hearing protection and hard hats is fairly inexpensive. You can't be around the construction business very long without seeing accidents. Many are preventable. We lost a few guys in the last year locally and over the years I lost two friends. Every death could have been prevented with a little knowledge or simple preventative measure. I saw the Biker Build Off with Indian Larry just the other night, he'd still be building bikes if he had a helmet on when he hit his head on the pavement. Such a simple precaution, especially when doing tricks.Don't let OSHA scare you but don't ignore them either, not if you have an employee. It's really a matter of your ethics and responsibility to your employee's families. In the case of an accident, you will know that you tried your best to avoid it.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
16' span with Aluma pole? If I knew that before I started, I probably would have bought the system. Now I wish I had, considering the $$$ I spent in lumber to build this staging a couple times already.
What is the max pole height for the Aluma system? I needed 24' on the other gable end of the house and the wood poles worked fine.
Thanks for the crash course on safety. Even though I'm not an employer...just a HO...everything you said does hit home. Even the simple precautions can make a difference between life and death. I was lucky to be able to walk away from the 20' dive I took a couple yrs ago. I think I'll look into a harness now.
cave.. our alum-a-pole planks are rated for 24' and the poles can go to 48' high
i have also seen 32' planksMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I used to have some 32' planks. What a bear to move. From my reading of the alum-a-pole info, 24' is the maximum spread they're rated for. Have you seen Werner's system? I've got a lead on a really great price on some of their stuff. Hasn't been on the market long.You're almost as paranoid as the people that're trying to kill me.
i wasn't sure who made the 32' planks or wether Alum-a-pole rated them..
and you're right.. moving a 20" x 24' AaP plank is about as much as i want to do..
i'll pass on the 32's
no , i haven't seen werner..
i thought you just bought some AAP..
does werner have a website ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I haven't bought yet. I'm poised and ready to strike as soon as some deadbeats pay their bills. I looked at Werner's site, but they don't have the pole system on it. My shingle dealer sells it and Alum-a-pole, but they don't stock it. There's a rebate program going on now, so I'm think I'm gonna take a chance. I'll keep you posted.You're almost as paranoid as the people that're trying to kill me.
http://www.abccatalog.com/store/advancedsearchexec.asp?keyword=&curPage=8&priceFrom=0&priceUntil=99999&idCategory=0&IdSupplier=33011&withStock=
ABC's giving a 10% rebate on the Werner stuff right now.You're almost as paranoid as the people that're trying to kill me.
48' high??? Yikes!!!
I could probably work that high, but it'd take me quite a while to lose the rubber legs LOL
BTW...how much flex is in the 24' aluma pole? Do those poles require cross bracing?
Dude... I'd chill. I can't say what's good for you cuz my lawyer would hang me. But, I'd do cart wheels on that set up. I wouldn't load it up with 3 sq of shingles or anything, but for for siding... I'd feel safe.
Now that's for me. If you're as nervous as you seem to be, maybe you oughta move the poles in a bit. You just might have an accident if your head isn't where it's supposed to be while you're up there working.
Thanks diesel, I've followed many of your threads and I also know you recently bought a lift. So I'm sure you can relate to my concern. Maybe I do need to chill, but after listening to you guys and using my common sense...I do have doubts now.
One other fact that I didn't mention was the 2 poles on the far right initially had quite a bit of wobble to them when I was about 15' up. I'm talking in and out, not left and right, when I walked on them. I just strapped them to the house wall at about 6' from grade and solved that. When the siding is put back on, I'll lose the straps and just back brace them like I did with the scaffold. The 2 poles on the left side don't wobble and no additional bracing was done. Could be because of the close proximity of the scaffold, I don't know.
The Aluma Pole systems are quite expensive. I bought mine so long ago, I forget the price but I think it was in the $3000 range. Four 24' poles, work bench brackets, nets, three of the 20" heavy plank, three 16" plank for the workbench, a couple end fences, pole anchors and extra wall brackets.I haven't seen anything in the 1926 standards that limits the span on poles. If you exceed 60' in height you have to have an engineer design the set up and stamp the plans. It's more a matter of the carrying capacity of the planks. If you have a 24' plank rated for two men, you don't want to load it with a pallet of bricks. Placing a pole in the center of a long plank could make for a see saw effect and you don't want that. The 10' spacing relates to wall braces on the height of the poles. If you are going up with the siding, you leave out a piece or two to connect a wall brace. Take the bracket off on the way down and place the missing siding. With wood poles at 24', I would simply add X bracing from pole to pole. They want the bottom of the pole anchored in case something knocks the pole off vertical. They don't expect you to put something on the ground from pole to pole and create a tripping hazard. You don't want the pole to sink into the ground.If your planks sag a few inches when you are in the center, they may not be strong enough. Just double them up on top. You don't want walking on the set up to wiggle the wall braces loose or put extra strain on them. Both a back guard rail and X braces will help. Back braces should be made out of an L shape with lumber that will withstand you falling against it, sufficiently nailed. You should have a top, middle and bottom. Stretching a couple 2x6 out 24' just wouldn't make sense. Some of the aspects of scaffolding are plain common sense. You don't want more weight than the system can hold, it should be solid and if you trip and stumble, you shouldn't be able to fall through to the ground. For most of us, that use it all the time, we need something that meets the criteria and is fast to set up and move. We are seldom on one wall more than several hours. The Aluma pole systems have matching components, meet requirements, don't take too long and can be chained and locked up. Planks don't lay on top of each other so there is no tripping, the workbench planks and nets will arrest a fall and provide a table to work on. They pay for themselves in a short time if you're in the business. Wood poles and plank are fine. You just need to brace them and use good materials. If you are set up for an extended period, keep your eye out for anything that's getting loose.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Yeah I wish I did buy the aluma system in the beginning, then I could have sold it when I was done. The more you guys mention the aluma pole system, the more I want to trash this wood pole set up. But I think that would be foolish at this time, since I am pretty confident with it and have the experience of using this combination of scaffold and pole jacks in the past. Besides a gable/dormer(?)with about a 26' peak up out front, the back wall is all that's left that requires any serious staging. The rest is a 'walk in the park'.
I did use common sense when putting this set up together. But I'll agree, I omitted some safety components. and YES I do have to be alert when working near the overlap of the planks...definitely a trip hazard!! When I fell before, it was because of my own carelessness and stupidity, not equipment failure. So with that said, I am heeding what you guys say about safety!!
Thanks again for all you offered.
cave, the overlap ?.... that's called the "inch and a half heart attack"Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
We call it that too.
Edited 3/14/2005 5:01 pm ET by dieselpig
gee...I wonder why <g>
hammer... it is my understanding that osha set the 10' limit on wooden pump poles because of the strength rating of the poles... not the planks
the 10 ' limit on wod is onr of th main reasons we switched to alum-a-poleMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike, you really got me thinking now!...
Am I correct in assuming that the 10' limit for wood poles is because any increase in the span equals increased platform weight/load on the poles? Does backbracing, against the direction of the load on the poles, help offset that extra load and to what extent? My knowledge about the stress point of lumber is limited...in fact almost non existent.
The reason I ask...when I originally did this siding job on the back wall, the pole spacing was, IIRC about 10 or 11'. In fact I'm going to measure it this weekend, since I know exactly where the poles were. When I did the other gable end of the house, the poles were 10' OC exactly. Both times, I never noticed any flex in the planks...and I'm 6'2 230#. Now with the 13' spacing, I noticed the flex. The center planks are fine, but the outer ones DO flex! I added 2x4 blocking under them, but that was just to tie both 2x12's together. It also stiffened the planks a little, but not enough for me to be comfortable. After clamping the ends of the center planks to the outer planks, the flex was no longer an issue. Now I can walk end to end and 'feel' safe.
Since I still have to spend a considerable amount of time working off this staging, now I'm a little concerned. The wooden poles and planks, even the "mickey mouse" scaffold deal doesn't phase me. I've spent many many hrs on them and feel safe. But the flex and 13' spacing issues are now bothering me. Mostly because of what I read from the OSHA reg's and what you said. If I add 3 or 4 16' 2x4's under the outer planks, that should stiffen them up. But more weight/load on the poles too! Maybe just continue with using the clamps??
What would you do if you were in my shoes???
I really don't want to shell out the coin for aluma poles, but I sure as he!! don't want to go 'skydiving' again...
Edited 3/9/2005 8:01 pm ET by Caveman
cave... when we used to use pump jacks. we used 2x10 rough spruce staging planks.. they were not rated .. it's just what everyone used
they were 16' long ( still are.. you can still get rough spruce 2x10 staging planks )
anyways.. we'd set our poles at 14' and double plank .. just like you.. only we'd tie them with 1/2" 20x20 pcs of ply.. with 5 ( 8d ) nails in each pland..
the theory was ... if one plank broke... you'd buy enough time to get off the other one
i think the 10' limit has more to do with the poles.. if you load the poles . thye can find a weakness and blow out.. ( snap ! )
there was a bad accident in town two years ago with pump jacks.. one of the poles blew and dumped 3 guys onto the rocks
that's my story and i'm stickin to it
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
The poles are my concern now, sorry if my ramble didn't clarify it. I've only used doug fir for poles and planks and never had a problem. The first set I tossed, since they had been out in the weather for quite a few yrs. What I have now is all new stock that I hand picked myself....course I'm no expert in wood either.
Since you worked with poles 14' OC (for a number of yrs I presume), do you think my set up will hold up with just me working on it? I realize sh!t happens, and NO WAY would I put you on the spot to give me a definitive answer. But being an experienced pro that you are, is the 13'OC at the low end or high end of overstressing my poles???
You got me nervous now...I have no idea how much stress is on my poles either
Help me out MIKE, or anyone else...I'm SERIOUS!!
So what do you think Imerc
give me your honest opinion...you think my 13'OC poles overstressed??
I'm really starting to think I need the aluma poles and that's gonna hurt...$$$$$ ouch
cave.. DF ? finest kind.. only thing better might be sitka spruce....
i think you're fine..
View Image
i'd have X-brace on them .. and i'd tie them to the wall about half-way upMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Ok, that sounds better. I thought DF was top shelf, but didn't know if it was suitable for jack poles.
What does the X brace do that my horizontile braces don't? One of the reason I used them like I did was to help keep the poles straight and not twist.
I know you guys are reluctant to post something here that could make you liable and I respect that. So I'll post it here that I WON"T HOLD ANYONE RESPONSIBLE other than myself if the staging fails. Remember, almost everyone here already told me this set up would flunk OSHA's requirements...even if I am just a HO.
Now I feel better, even better now that diesel said he would do cartwheels. But as for Imerc, Goldhiller and myself on it at the same time??...the juries still out ;)
Thanks Mike...I do appreciate you thoughts
like I said...
I'd work on that and I'd get Golhiller up there with the two of us...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
man you got nads...
I know what I weigh and about what you weigh, but no clue as to Goldhiller. Us 2 would be border line. All 3 of us?, that would be pushing it IMO, but you guys are the pros...not me
I can't see any braces running from the poles to the wall in the picture. I know you don't want to puncture the housewrap, and you won't want holes in your siding, but if you can run a few braces to the wall, that would make the poles much more rigid. You could also run some braces straight out in back of the pole to a stake drove in the ground.Your horizontal braces are doing the same job in one direction, but what is doing it in the other direction? Anytime I use pump jacks, I run braces every five or six feet up the length of the pole, to the house, two braces in each spot, running at an angle to the house.
Allen in Santa Cruz
There are braces to the wall on the 2 poles on the right, about 6' from grade. The pic doesn't show them. Now that the demo is done and the new Tyveck is done upstairs, I'll remove those 2 wall braces and back brace the 2 poles to stakes in the ground. Then I'll put up the new Tyveck and siding on the lower section and work my way back up. I believe the back braces should be sufficient. They work like a charm for the scaffold, it doesn't budge an inch, fore and aft or left and right. The siding is vinyl shingles and once it's up, it'd be tough to tie into the wall without causing any damage to them. I suppose I could remove a section of the siding to connect a brace, and replace it when I'm done, but that would be a PITA.
>>Your horizontal braces are doing the same job in one direction, but what is doing it in the other direction?<<
I'm not sure what other direction you mean. As in perpindicular to the house?
The 2 sets of horizontal braces tie into the scaffold for increased stability and also limit any twisting of the poles over time. What do X braces do that my horizontal braces don't?
cave.. the horizontal braces allow the entrie scafffold to sway in unison
X-braces will not allow that movement
View ImageMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike
That much I understand. The scaffold use the X braces for that very reason.
With my set up, I am relying on the X braces of the scaffold to prevent any lateral movement of the jack poles, since the poles are attached in 5 places to the scaffold. Here's a couple more pics showing the connections. I would think the 10' spacing of the pipe scaffold offers enough of a foot print to keep from tipping. I've actually tried to tip the scaffold...yeah I'm nuts sometimes<g>...by climbing up to the top, on the outside of it and shaking the shid out of it. Rock solid!!
Sorry if I appear to be beating this dead horse over and over. I just got a little paranoid after reading what you said about the poles snapping.
Next time I ask for anyones approval here, I won't use that term. I wasn't asking for a stamp or sign off, just some proffesional opinions. I just recently learned that asking for and receiving approval here, could lead to some serious liabilities if something happened.