I need a new roof and I have Yankee gutters. I have had four roofing estimates and I asked all the roofers for ideas about what to do with the yankee gutters. I dont think any of the estimates have address the yankee gutters question. What should I do?
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More Info:
The explanation I was given about “Yankee Gutters” is that the roof rafters end at the top plate of the exterior walls. The gutter extends out from the top of the exterior wall.
I have a picture of the gutter but I am an idiot and do not know how to paste it to this message. Any help?
Edited 3/12/2008 6:13 pm ET by mem21
Edited 3/12/2008 6:22 pm ET by mem21
Edited 3/12/2008 6:34 pm ET by mem21
Replies
Talk to the roofers.
What is a "Yankee" gutter anyway?
Are they true "Yankee gutters" built on top of the roof or "built-in gutters" that are cut into the plane of the roof like this?
View Image
With either, the metal lining should be in good condition. You didn't say if there were problems with them. Are there? What kind of metal is in them and how old are they? They may be fine.
The Yankee gutter system should probably be addressed as the roof is being done if repairs or replacement is needed since the roof material goes below it and above it. With a built in gutter, we normally finish the roof except for the bottom course or two and them slip them in after the new liner is complete so there's little chance of dropping something while working above and damaging the new liner. The one exception to that is a standing seam roof. The liner needs to be complete before the roof is installed.
Give us a little more info and fill out your profile and we can help you better.
http://grantlogan.net/
But you all knew that. I detailed it extensively in my blog.
Edited 3/12/2008 3:11 pm ET by seeyou
Thanks for your help!
I just bought a house from a widow who lived there for almost 70 years and nothing has been done to the house in 30 years. The roof has wooden shakes and at least 2 layers of asphalt shingles plus the Yankee gutters. I know I have to do a complete tear off with new plywood and shingles installed. I also want to get the proper venting that is required. But I am also worried about what to do about the Yankee gutters.
My gutters are built in (pictures attached). The roof rafters end at the top plate of the walls. The rafters do not extend beyond the outside walls. I am guessing the gutters are made of wood. I have standard shingles and they end at the gutters. The gutters appeared to be lined with flat roofing material. From below the gutters appear to be built out from the top plate of the walls.
My concerns are as follows:
If the wooden gutters are rotted what do I do? If they are not rotted what do I do?
All the roofing estimates (4 so far) have included a ridge vent. But, I also believe I need venting from the soffits, right? With the existing gutters I don't have a soffit or even a fascia.
Any insight you can give me I would be grateful!!!
Mike
Grant,
Real off topic question, but do you see any wisdom or function in putting gutters on a 25 story building in a hurricane zone?
25 stories, huh.
My 1st thought would be not having gutters would dump the roof drainage against the walls/windows possibly causing problems.
My 2nd thought is if it's in a hurricane zone, the exterior ought to be detailed to stand an awful lot of hard blowing water, regardless.
I have a funny picture in my mind of an aluminum continuous gutter crew pulling up to the job.http://grantlogan.net/
But you all knew that. I detailed it extensively in my blog.
The rafters do not extend beyond the outside walls.
Correct. But there are "lookouts" (horizontal 2x's nailed to them setting on top of the plae) that carry the gutter trough and support the cornice below. There are other variations on this configuration, but that looks like what you've got.
The gutters appeared to be lined with flat roofing material.
They are now. You've got a last gasp bandaid applied over 100 year old metal (probably terne).
If the wooden gutters are rotted what do I do? If they are not rotted what do I do?
They need to be relined with metal or as an economy/stopgap measure: EPDM. How does the cornice look below the gutters? If the mouldings, fascia and soffit are rotten, you can bet the gutter trough and some lookouts are rotten. If the cornice looks pretty good, the lookouts are probably re-usable for the most part, but the trough usually needs a rebuild/regrade which is the least of the expenses involved. What ever material is used for the liner, it must be supported well.
All the roofing estimates (4 so far) have included a ridge vent. But, I also believe I need venting from the soffits, right? With the existing gutters I don't have a soffit or even a fascia.
If the ridge is vented you need inlet venting. The built-in gutters likely have a soffit and a fascia creating a chamber that is part of the attic. You should be able to vent the soffit.
Some pictures from the ground would be helpful in helping you. If you can, downsize them some. I can handle the big files, but some of the guys here that might have something to add are on dialup and get bored waiting for pictures to load. http://grantlogan.net/
But you all knew that. I detailed it extensively in my blog.
Grant,What type of wood do you like to use for the exterior portions of box gutters and the like, assuming it is to be painted? Do you pre-prime the wood, all sides? Are any of the new 'composite' woods appropriate?
What type of wood do you like to use for the exterior portions of box gutters and the like,
For years, we used primarily redwood and occasionally reclaimed cypress when we could get it for fascia and soffit. If it's a stock moulding, we usually use clear pine. For custom mouldings, the mill shop we use gives us a choice of redwood, mahogany, and sassafrass. Lately, due to the poor quality of redwood available, we've been using pre-primed cedar for fascia and soffit.
We have a lot of bead board soffit in this area on older homes and we can get it pretty readily in both cedar and redwood.
We prime all sides or at least the back if there are painters coming right behind us and spray the cut ends with Killz.
Are any of the new 'composite' woods appropriate?
Are you talking about AZEK and the like? Don't have much experience with it yet, but I've been looking at it pretty hard. Lately, we haven't been doing much cornice reworking. The last two or three built-in gutter jobs we've done had metal cornice. We rebuilt the trough (we usually use pine 1x for that) and structure (PT 2x) but reused/repaired the metal cornice. I can't see why PVC wouldn't be a good choice. I like the idea of it, but I'd like a little real life experience with it before I start selling it.http://grantlogan.net/
But you all knew that. I detailed it extensively in my blog.
I've had experience with azek. Working with it is easy, abit dusty.but
It seems to have very little expansion compared to others
DO NOT LET THEM PUT IN A RIDGE VENT. Yankee gutters usually means an older home. Just stay with the gable end vents. You would NOT be able to cut/drill in soffitt venting which a ridge vent needs. The ridge vent will only suck warm air into the attic space and presto MOLD.
Pel,
That advice is wrong !
Grant had an incredibly thorough and 100 % correct response prior to yours.
It's often possible to easily install soffit vents on older homes and usually very easy.
Here, in the south, we call yankee gutters a piece of ell flashing. It's usually over the door ways of houses without gutters. Simply tucked under the shingle tabs at an angle... you can see our view of yankees has something to do with frugality<G> Winterlude, Winterlude, my little daisy,
Winterlude by the telephone wire,
Winterlude, it's makin' me lazy,
Come on, sit by the logs in the fire.
The moonlight reflects from the window
Where the snowflakes, they cover the sand.
Come out tonight, ev'rything will be tight,
Winterlude, this dude thinks you're grand.
You callin us Northern boys cheap ??!!
Cost effective!... it's the folks with no gutters here who are cheap<G> Winterlude, Winterlude, my little daisy,
Winterlude by the telephone wire,
Winterlude, it's makin' me lazy,
Come on, sit by the logs in the fire.
The moonlight reflects from the window
Where the snowflakes, they cover the sand.
Come out tonight, ev'rything will be tight,
Winterlude, this dude thinks you're grand.
Yankee gutters - as in built into the roof edge/cornice....
Now I know why Yankees don't like gutters :-)
The ridge vent will only suck warm air into the attic space and presto MOLD.
How does a ridge vent "suck" air into the attic?
Without inlet vents, a ridge vent is not very effective, but better than gable end vents without inlets.
Ridge vents can't "suck".
Riversong HouseWright
Design * * Build * * Renovate * * ConsultSolar & Super-Insulated Healthy Homes
From personal experieance in my 100 yr. old home I have to assume the existing gable end vents created these conditions. Yes I did (with GREAT) difficulty put in (retrofitted) soffitt vents. My new sheathing turned black with mold. Protruding nails were dripping water. I removed the ridge vent and those conditions stopped. Venting unconditioned space is an art not a science. Thats why there is so much being written about it. JLC has some of the most informative articles on it. I just feel that in older homes which have existed for 50 plus yrs with no problems what are you gaining. And at what cost. It would be an expieriment at best. I GC'd 2 large roof jobs last yr one house 110 yrs old and the other 250. Roofer wanted ridge vents I said no. Ck'd the attics this winter and no moisture problems. If it ain't broke don't fix it.
OK, it seems when you refer to a ridge vent "sucking" moist air into an attic, you're talking about adding ridge vents with no soffit inlet vents. This could create a negative pressure in the attic which will draw moist indoor air up through a leaky ceiling.
So the problem is not the ridge vents but the absence of soffit vent and a very leaking ceiling.
I beg to differ. Roof venting IS a science. The principles are straightforward. Applying those principles in an existing, or even new, house is an art. Obviously, sealing attic penetrations is part of that art.
I just feel that in older homes which have existed for 50 plus yrs with no problems what are you gaining.
That's like saying "Insulating previously uninsulated walls in a house which has stood for 100 years offers no advantages, and can shorten the remaining lifespan of the structure."
Sure, if you don't understand the science and know the art, then leave it alone. But there are likely other problems associated with no roof venting.
Roof venting serves several purposes:
removes moisture
removes summer heat
prevents ice dams in winter
prolongs the life of some roofing materials
Riversong HouseWright
Design * * Build * * Renovate * * ConsultSolar & Super-Insulated Healthy Homes
Without seeing it up close, it's hard to assess. But my guess is you'd be better off tearing off the "yankee gutters", building new vented soffits, and installing seamless aluminum gutters.
Riversong HouseWright
Design * * Build * * Renovate * * ConsultSolar & Super-Insulated Healthy Homes
But my guess is you'd be better off tearing off the "yankee gutters", building new vented soffits, and installing seamless aluminum gutters.
Which would radically change the appearance of a historic house.http://grantlogan.net/
But you all knew that. I detailed it extensively in my blog.
Which would radically change the appearance of a historic house.
A "historic" house with vinyl siding.
What's more important: form or function?
Riversong HouseWright
Design * * Build * * Renovate * * ConsultSolar & Super-Insulated Healthy Homes
A "historic" house with vinyl siding.
You're confused. The OP asked about built in gutters. I showed him some pics of a built in gutter rebuild we did where a dormer had vinyl siding. The dormer has since been restored .
What's more important: form or function?
IMHO, function is. But one does not have to be devoid of form to be functional. http://grantlogan.net/
But you all knew that. I detailed it extensively in my blog.
the OPs photos also show vinyl, along with a mish-mash of everything else down the street. I'm guessing there aren't many "form" covenants in this neighborhood. I'd lean towards function at this point.
I didn't notice the vinyl in the OP's pics. They were so big I couldn't see the whole thing at once.
But, I still stand with what I said earlier. That vinyl will come right off and the original siding is right there. You butcher up a cornice and that's what you've got. A butchered cornice with an after thought looking gutter hanging off of it. http://grantlogan.net/
But you all knew that. I detailed it extensively in my blog.
This might also be the Yankee gutter system you have.
Fillus in with more info.
View Image
Oh boy did this posting come at the perfect time. I'm paying close attention to this as it may be the answer to a current problem.
rob,
Give us some more info-- don't just tease us.
Have you seen the 50 million dollar "camp" lately?
Walter
Walter, No I have not been up to the 'camp'. The stories have died down.I am overseeing a job in Chatham MA and we have a difficult area to shed water away from the personal door into a garage. Those that know the area are aware that snow and ice do not last long. They also know very well of rain that not only blows across the yard into the buildings, it is also been seen to go up. Water does not always run down.I think that this Yankee Gutter cut flush into the roof would be a great addition to the project. I've talked to the carpenter already and I will search this out on Thursday for more detail. When I have the info I'll pass it onto the owner (my boss) who has been on the other side of the world for a few months and who I won't see till May.I need to run to the range for a match. I'll fill in more details later. Glad to see you around. We should have a beer some day.Rob
Rob,
Let me know when you're heading up to Moosehead some time and we could meet in Bangor on your way up or back home-- or stop into my place. I'm 6 miles off the Interstate South of Bangor.
Heres an album of a similar situation I've linked to here on several occaisions.
http://share.shutterfly.com/action/welcome?sid=8cbsmrhq0iI&emid=sharshar&linkid=link5
Hey Walter - What we call a Yankee gutter around here is completely on top of the roof sheathing. There's not many - I think I've done two in my career. You got those in Yankee land? I haven't seen you post any pics of any.http://grantlogan.net/
But you all knew that. I detailed it extensively in my blog.
Grant,
I'm not sure exactly-- the wooden gutters here are sold as Boston pattern fir gutters, but people do refer to them as Yankee gutters.
Interesting to see what regional differences we'll see as this thread fleshes out.
Walter
Here's what we call a yankee gutter:
View Image
I found this pic when I googled "yankee gutter". The one's that I have done were higher on the roof with several courses of slate or other roofing below the gutter.http://grantlogan.net/
But you all knew that. I detailed it extensively in my blog.
I think around here we call those "stop" gutters, because they stop the water flowing down the roof. Some of my neighbors have them.
Look at the bottom illustration on page 67 (there's only 3 actual pages on the pdf). That's the other thing we call a yankee gutter.
Ooops - forgot to add the link:
http://books.google.com/books?id=TKU7v4yBfqQC&pg=PA60&lpg=PA60&dq=yankee+gutter&source=web&ots=CzFi2C6hjJ&sig=9zx9-t8_NUYcxJK-jADySIDSPbc&hl=en#PPA67,M1
http://grantlogan.net/
But you all knew that. I detailed it extensively in my blog.
Edited 3/12/2008 5:39 pm ET by seeyou
Grant,
Looks like the first drawing is similar to the style near me. The middle one looks like your earlier picture and the bottom one is what I think in Penn. they call Yankee gutters.
Maybe the OP will return with more info.
Is that earlier pic. a job in progress?
Walter
Is that earlier pic. a job in progress?
Yeah, the first one with the tile roof is. We stripped the tile, installed new underlayment and flashings, re-installed the tile, and did new gutter liners. It was a couple of years ago.http://grantlogan.net/
But you all knew that. I detailed it extensively in my blog.
Here's some pics of a job we did recently. I haven't found the liner pics yet, but this is a rebuild of the guts:
View Image
View Image
View Image
View Image
http://grantlogan.net/
But you all knew that. I detailed it extensively in my blog.
That was Hussy, not Headly ,if you are searching for pics. I have a slew of them.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
No - it's Headley.http://grantlogan.net/
But you all knew that. I detailed it extensively in my blog.
Ok. I recall.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
Ok. I recall.
No you don't - you weren't there.http://grantlogan.net/
But you all knew that. I detailed it extensively in my blog.
I know, I was mistaken.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
Thanks for the pictures! All the advice has been very helpful!!! Since I posted my message I have been searching for contractors who know how to deal with "yankee gutters". Luckily I found a few who say they know what they are doing. I am working on getting estimates and references of past jobs. All the roofers just want to deal with the roof. I guess everyone want to specialize on what they do best. I always believe you get what you pay for!
Thanks!