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I am making a set of kitchen cabinets with inset drawer fronts. The drawer fronts will have a 3/4″ “picture frame” (w/ mitered corners) around the solid wood drawer front. Most drawers will be 6″ high (cross grain direction) with varying widths, but may be up to 12″ in the cross grain direction. I am using hickory.
My question: I am expecting to run into expansion/contraction problems and thus am expecting to use some type of frame/panel construction. See attached file for a detail. (You should be able to open if Microsoft Paint.) (I realize dimensions do not add up – they are approximate.) Is this the best way to do this? I am concerned that the 1/16″ lip will be brittle after the drawer is pulled a few times.
Now that I write this out, I realize that the panel will be attached to the drawer body by the drawer handle and all the stress will be applied directly to the panel and drawer body, not the frame. So I think I answered my own question and this should work fine.
Any comments? I still new at this, so I would take any advice you would like to offer related to this. I’d like to do these right the first time.
Thanks,
Bill
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Bill - I tried to open your detail last night but don't know how to deal with files. If you can post it using "jpeg" (or whatever that is) I'll be glad to take a look.
In my opinion miter joints are a poor choice for any cabinetry or millwork and I go to great lengths to avoid using them. - jb
*I agree with Jim that miter joints are a poor choice for door/drawer fronts. Miters are to often opening. Try stile and rail cutters for your router or shaper, they make much better frames. Also mount the drawer fronts with 20mm drawer front adjusters. Easy to install and adjust, can be found in Woodworkers Supply catalog. Bill Swales
*Bill - got your e-mail. When I build drawers, I use what I call a "sub front". I make up the 4 sided drawer with bottom grooved in, then fasten the drawer front to this box. I know this method uses 1 more piece, but I like the strength and "buildability" of this system better.OK, so if you do drawers the way I just described, you won't have any trouble with the edge you asked about. If you try to make 4 piece drawers (instead of 5) then you are right, there is a good chance of the stiles and rails splitting there. I like the looks of that profile. Did you use a single bit for that, or is that a profile you developed using several different bits? Can you post a drawing of how the face of a drawer would look? - jb
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Thanks for your replies. I attached another file with more detail. I was planning on making the four sided drawer and then attaching the front to it as Jim described.
Bill Swales, do you have a part number for those adjusters? I would like to try those and if I knew the manufacturer, part number, something, I could order them. I don't have their catalog. I did call them but they didn't think they carried such a thing. (I am aware of what you are referring to as I have the Blum literature for them.)
The profile is one that I kind of guessed at. I used a roundover and cove bit for the test one. I'll probably end up making them with a beading bit and a cove bit. Not sure I have much of a choice other than miters as it is a custom profile and I don't think this profile would look good w/rail and stile anyway.
Sorry I don't have any better pictures than the crude drawing I made. The idea came from an add in a magazine. The front edge of the drawer front frame will be flush with the face frame and the panel will be recessed a bit (as can be seen in drawing). The face frame has a 1/4" bead around the drawer.
Jim, apparently you figured out how to look at the picture as you commented on my profile. Let me know if you want me to send it to you some other way.
Bill
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wward,
I was able to open your file. I think it should work fine. It's a great looking drawer front detail, but I would offer this. Set your drawer guides so that when they stop.....they stop short of your drawer fronts hitting the cabinets directly. (This is not that easy to do, and will take some serious tweaking on your part). However, the detail seems to have enough wood on the backside to hold the trim details in place. If for some reason that closing the drawers wants to break the mouldings you might try the "short stop" method. A small gap between the drawer front and the cabinet will not be noticed, and you can slam them if you want and it won't affect the drawer front.
My advice,
Ed. Williams
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Ed, Thanks for the advice.
Guess I should clarify my post. The drawers are inset, not overlay. There should not be a problem as you mention then because the drawer front will slide inside the face frame and not ever hit the face frame, correct? Or did I miss something? I will keep your comments in mind if I do an overlay front with a similar detail as I hadn't thought of that before.
Regards, Bill
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Geez! That wasn't you that sent me the e-mail? Some good samaritan (now I'm gonna have to find out who) sent me your detail in jpeg so I could open it. Thanks! Whoever!
FWIW when I saw the detail, I understood why you were planning on using miters. That's why I asked about another look. Can you post you drawings in jpeg?
Ed, man, how do you deal with those files? Do you have to have another program open or something? Sign me - computer stupid, but grinnin' anyway!
*Bill, you're right, I lied, sorry about that. I deal with so many suppliers I had memoory lapse and was shooting from the hip. Try Rockler, Part # 28936, http://www.rockler.com This part is 25mm. I use Blum also but its a 20mm. Bill Swales
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OK. I just downloaded a program to convert to jpeg. Have a look.
Bill
*Bill,Thanks! I had looked through Rockler before but was unable to find them! Using your part number, I located them on their web site. This is very helpful as I had wanted to try these but couldn't find anyone who carried them.Thanks,Bill Ward
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Bill - You the man! Now I can see what you got and that looks down right elegant to me. Nice drafting too. You do that on CAD, or by hand?
*Bill, is the hickory something you harvested? Other than hammer handles I've never seen any. What's it like to work with? Not something available here in California, Joe H
*I'd suggest that the "frame" of your drawer front be allowed to float, not be attached to the center panel. This way, the frame can expand and contract freely and the panel won't restrict it's movement causing the gaps. Make the panel 1/8" smaller than tight and I think you'll be fine. IMHO, the 1/16" lip is fine because it quickly becomes thicker as you move out toward the edge.
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I used the drawing tools in Microsoft Word. Pretty rudimentary, but they get the job done for quick, simple stuff. Someday I'll get a real CAD program.
Bill
*I didn't harvest it. It came from a local lumber mill which gets its wood from various sources in the midwest.It works OK. The biggest problem is splitting. You can pretty much forget putting a face frame together with pocket screws as it splits the second piece as the screw tries to tap itself. I am going to attempt to attach the face frames to the cases by drilling a pilot hole into the face frame. It also has open pores kind of like oak, but the pores are larger. Other than that, it's not bad to work with. I am using it because we really like the look of it.Oh, by the way I am in central Iowa.Bill
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wward,
Oops....my mistake. You did indeed say that tey were inset drawers. In that case, I see no problems. I would agree with Ryan below that it would be a good idea not to glue the panels to the frame. I guess they should be tight enough so that they don't cause you trouble getting the reveal you want between the drawers and the stiles and rails, but they will probably expand and contract a little with the changing of the moisture in the air. On panels that small it should be minimum movement, but I agree it should be considered.
Sorry for my misread.
Good luck,
Ed. Williams
*Jim,I'm kinda like you....if they open, they open. If not, then I don't get to see it. Oh well.Like you also, I like to build my drawers as a box and then add the front. It makes for an easy build.Ed. Williams
*I've got a real cad program and still have used word to post here. I need somebody to tell me how to convert DXF to JPG.
* Ryan,
Joseph FuscoView Image© 1999."It is better to be feared. . . Then loved!" Machiavelli
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I am making a set of kitchen cabinets with inset drawer fronts. The drawer fronts will have a 3/4" "picture frame" (w/ mitered corners) around the solid wood drawer front. Most drawers will be 6" high (cross grain direction) with varying widths, but may be up to 12" in the cross grain direction. I am using hickory.
My question: I am expecting to run into expansion/contraction problems and thus am expecting to use some type of frame/panel construction. See attached file for a detail. (You should be able to open if Microsoft Paint.) (I realize dimensions do not add up - they are approximate.) Is this the best way to do this? I am concerned that the 1/16" lip will be brittle after the drawer is pulled a few times.
Now that I write this out, I realize that the panel will be attached to the drawer body by the drawer handle and all the stress will be applied directly to the panel and drawer body, not the frame. So I think I answered my own question and this should work fine.
Any comments? I still new at this, so I would take any advice you would like to offer related to this. I'd like to do these right the first time.
Thanks,
Bill