This is a question related to flooring.
A room is rectangular and measures 13 ft X 18 ft.
I need to know the diagonal measurement in inches.
How do you figure this?
^^^^^^
a Smith & Wesson beats four Aces
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156 x 156+ 216 x216 = square root of answer in inches and decimals
With the pythagorean theorum - A^2 + B^2 = C^2
13^2 = 169
18^2 = 324
169 + 324 = 493
The square root of 493 is 22.2036, so it's 22.2036 feet.
To break that down farther, take off the 22 feet and multiply .2036 by 12 to get 2.4432 inches.
Take off the 2" and multiply .4432 by 16 to get 7/16"
So the answer is 22' 2 7/16"
.
Of course - It's a lot easier if you have a construction master calculator....
WowThanks for the help guys.Much appreciated !^^^^^^
a Smith & Wesson beats four Aces
266 7/16"
"How do you figure this?"
By staying awake in high school! ;-0
LOL!
When you're this good, EVERYONE wants a crack at you!
http://www.petedraganic.com/
Thanks to everyone for their assistance.I'm installing vinyl tile in a 13 X 16 conference room. There are no sink or cabinets. Just an empty rectangular room.I'm using 16 X 16 vinyl tile which will be installed diagonally.The pattern is as follows:4 pieces of 16 X 16 tile installed to form a 32 X 32 square. Then use four vinyl planks (darker shade) to "frame" around the 32 X 32 square. The planks measure 4 " X 36 "My plans were to find the center of the room, layout a line on a 45 degree angle across the room and use that as a reference.However, after careful study and analysis, it appears this will result in the last pieces being pretty small on all four sides around the perimeter of the room.This will be remedied by shifting the starting point several inches to one side. And several inches either up or down.This will eliminate the small pieces around the perimeter, but the last pieces will not match the opposing piece on the other side of the room.Guess that's the best I can do.Thanks again to everyone.^^^^^^
a Smith & Wesson beats four Aces
Addendum:I guess if I was smarter I could figure out how far shift the starting point so that the last piece of tile WOULD match the opposing piece of tile on the opposite side of the room^^^^^^
a Smith & Wesson beats four Aces
shift over from starting point 1/2 the width of 1 tile.
Also if you don't want to go through the trouble of math try this.
http://www.csgnetwork.com/foundationsquarecalc.html?pagename=Square%20Calculator
Edited 3/6/2007 10:38 am ET by AllTrade
The tile is 16 X 16.I will find the center of the room and measure to the side 8 inches and either up or down 8 inches and then use that as my starting point.Will that make the final pieces on the perimeter identical to their matching piece of tile on the opposing side of the room?Thanks!^^^^^^
a Smith & Wesson beats four Aces
Mr Fixit, I've layed out a few floors on the diagonal, as you are seeking to do. You are wise to think this thing out thoroughly. On a couple of floors I did, I was forced to fit the tiles into an L shaped room with several key visual points. I think I monkeyed with one of them for about 6 hours before succumbing. The house I'm in now took a couple hours too.
A basic rectangular shaped room should be relatively easy if you know the rules. I think Alltrade already gave you the basic idea but I think he may have given you numbers that apply to square layouts, not diagonals. He may be right...it all depends upon his point of view.
If I were doing it, I'd also start with the center line layout as you are attempting to do. I'd check the end pieces and the rule of thumb is to not have any end pieces that are less than half the unit size of your materials. This is where it might get confusing.
When I do my calculations, I use the diagonal unit dimension of a 16 x 16 tile. That happens to be 22.62". So, if I started with the center of the tile on the centerline, I'd check to see if I was happy with the end pieces, in all directions. If I wasn't, I'd shift the starting layout line 1/2 of 22.62" and see how things shake out.
Sometimes, with diagonals, it might be more pleasing with other arrangements. Do it in theory, then layout some pieces in full scale and take a step back. I guess I didn't have to tell you that though.
blue
"...
keep looking for customers who want to hire YOU.. all the rest are looking for commodities.. are you a commodity ?... if you get sucked into "free estimates" and "soliciting bids"... then you are a commodity... if your operation is set up to compete as a commodity, then have at it..... but be prepared to keep your margins low and your overhead high...."
From the best of TauntonU.
Maybe I'm missing something, but how can you shift the patter 8" to the side and have it work out ok? I thought you wanted a square of 4 tiles in the middle of the room, with a plank border, then more field tiles. If you shift the layout, the center square wont be in the center."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
You want either a tile in the center or a joint in the center. Either will look "centered". You pick one or the other based on which works out best around the edges.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
I picked up the tile and planks today. It is vinyl. The tiles are 16 by 16 and the planks are 4 X 36.The pattern will be four tiles with a dark wood frame around them and this pattern will be repeated diagonally across the room.Enclosed is a picture^^^^^^
a Smith & Wesson beats four Aces
I have laid that adura stuff before. Harder to cut than vct with just a utility knife. Otherwise it's a nice product."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
can you see in the picture how I'm going to have to cut the plank to fit in between two other pieces of plank?I will need to cut it to exact length. I would like it to look like a factory edge after I cut it.The instructions say to cut it with a "large tile cutter" or by using the "score and snap" technique.How did you cut your tile?^^^^^^
a Smith & Wesson beats four Aces
Get a vct cutter, or an old paper cutter like you had in grade school that threatened to cut all the kids fingers off, or maybe a shingle cutter. All my cuts were around the perimeter so I did not have to be exact.
But why cut the planks? If they will be a frame around the squares, why can't they run continuously?"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
I can use full size planks for the first square.But when you proceed from there you make another square and it only takes three planks on each square from then on.One plank will need to be cut and I'm trying to figure out if I'm going to cut the same plank or alternate.The cut piece will be four inches long.Thanks to everyone for all the help and suggestions !^^^^^^
a Smith & Wesson beats four Aces
I'm still not clear on your pattern. Is it something like this:
View Image
Here I ran the dividers full size and just trimmed where necesary.
"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Sweet - yes that's it. Looks really good !What I'm doing will be diagonal though.Thanks for the picture !^^^^^^
a Smith & Wesson beats four Aces
That is 12" porcelain tiles with 5" brazilian cherry flooring for dividers. It was a b!tch to do, but the HO was very happy and paid well.
If you do the same thing, you can run full strips of planck in the east-west direction from wall to wall, and cut the north-south planks to fit in between. Much less cutting that way."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Thanks again for your suggestions.Yesterday I drove to the job and saw at it for the first time.I got hired to do this as the result of a friend asking me to do it.It's a large office building. I'm guessing it measures 50 X 100 ft and it's an older building.They are updating the office common areas. The hallways, conference room and restrooms. There are two long hallways running the length of the building.The money to do this is the result of the company applying for some kind of grant. I thought that was interesting.It's a for profit business (manufacturing) and it's about a one and a half hour drive away. I'm allowed to work weekends only.They're doing something I've never seen before - they have repainted the walls (not the ceilings) and I counted seven different shades of green paint which were used. An interior decorator came up with this. I like how it turned out - I just thought it was really different.^^^^^^
a Smith & Wesson beats four Aces
I'm allowed to work weekends only.
Union issues?“The richest genius, like the most fertile soil, when uncultivated, shoots up into the rankest weeds..” – Hume
No, the job was in an office and they would not allow me making a disruption during business hours.^^^^^^
a Smith & Wesson beats four Aces
Sorry, I am a bit slow. Can you explain the sequence. Did you lay all the wood grid then infill with tiles? Also, how did you nail or glue the flooring?
I do have an old style paper cutter and I will use it to make the square cuts.Thanks!^^^^^^
a Smith & Wesson beats four Aces
Then you offset by 10 inches instead of 8, to move from center of tile to center of border or back.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
The method you provided in your drawing seemed familiar.I think what you did is similar to a drafting procedure (bisecting a line)Thanks again for providing it.What I'm talking about is in figure 4.4 in the following link:http://tpub.com/content/engineering/14069/css/14069_138.htm^^^^^^
a Smith & Wesson beats four Aces
I did learn that techique in my high school drafting class Mrfixitusa.
The link you provided shows the variation I use when squaring a house. Specifically, the first picture shows how I derive a square line, in the middle of a house, from two parallel sill plates. I find it very easy and very fast to set up a square control line by setting up two paralell sill plates first, then using that arc metality. I mark two points on the sill plates, then bisect that distance. The bisected distance is a perfect square point that coresponds with the starting point.
The genius of this system is it's simplicity. We all know we have to set the sill plates paralell, so we do this first. We then create the two control points and set our square paralells. There is no fussing with extended stringlines and/or computations. I can teach this method to any framer regardless of his math skills.
blue"...
keep looking for customers who want to hire YOU.. all the rest are looking for commodities.. are you a commodity ?... if you get sucked into "free estimates" and "soliciting bids"... then you are a commodity... if your operation is set up to compete as a commodity, then have at it..... but be prepared to keep your margins low and your overhead high...."
From the best of TauntonU.
I pulled up the old dirty commercial carpet on Saturday.The commercial carpet had been glued to luan 7-8 years ago and I did not damage the luan as I pulled up the old carpet.I now have a gluey sticky mess to deal with and I tried sanding the old glue as a way of removing it. This did not work. The old glue heated up and plugged up my sanding disks in a matter of a few seconds. I tried using my makita 7" disk sander.The glue is not going to "dry" in a few days and make it easier to work with.There are places in the room where the old glue is fairly dry but there are other places in the room where your shoes stick to the floor when you step on the glue.The height of the existing luan is perfect as it is right now. I really don't want to put a down a new layer and raise the height of the floor.I really don't want to try to cut out and remove the old luan. It's been stapled to the particle board subfloor.I would like to clean up the glue and then lay the new tile on a flat, clean surface.I tried using odorless mineral spirits on a small section of the glue and it softened a little but it sure doesn't dissolve it.I tried using citris stripper in another spot and it softened the old glue a little, but again, it doesn't dissolve it.I'm trying to stay away from strong chemical odors and I'm trying to stay away from strong chemicals that will soak into the Luan and damage it and cause it to separate.Any suggestions or input would be appreciated.I talked to a guy this morning about a product called "Detach". He said it's made to remove glue from concrete. Apparently it's a water-based product. I'm thinking about trying it.^^^^^^
a Smith & Wesson beats four Aces
It's time to sub it out.
What about a thin layer of self leveling floor leveler?^^^^^^
a Smith & Wesson beats four Aces
I'm not a tile guy.
My post was in response to the apparent increase in difficulty this project has seemingly presented itself. Go back and reread your posts. You're testing your limits with this project. From what you now know, subbing it out to a tile guy could be the faster and most profitable way for you to deal with this. Otherwise, you have a learning curve to battle all while trying to impress the HO with your skills. What are you really selling? Your tile work? Or your project management skills?
If I was the HO, I would be more impressed with you calling in a experienced "friend" to handle this part of their project. Why's that different from calling in a plumber or sparky when you want things done right?
Yeah, I'm reminded of once hearing "You know, for an electrician you're not a bad carpenter." Which, while intended as an insult, is much higher praise than "For a plumber you're not a bad carpenter."
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
I've been thinking about this and for me, I just enjoy doing this kind of work and learning.These are the kind of jobs I like where I'm working in a house or project by myself.I must be kind of stubborn because I don't want to back out and give the job to someone else.The next time I get into something like this I'm going to just plan on tearing out the carpet and then immediately installing luan. Nothing else seems to be practical or feasible.I'm going to install the thinnest luan I kind find and then start with a clean slate when I install the tile.I guess I'm stubborn and hard headed.
^^^^^^
a Smith & Wesson beats four Aces
I'm not suggesting you give the job away.
I'm suggesting your more experienced "friend" will give you a hand doing it.
Ultimately, I believe that will provide you a higher rate of return on your time invested.
I got the floor finished over the weekend. I appreciate the tips and suggestions from everyone.I used three chalk lines to find a starting point: (1) a center line the length of the room, (2) a perpendicular line, and (3) a 45 degree angle line.The vinyl tiles are 16 X 16 and I laid out four of them without any glue and noticed they didn't line up with my chalk lines.So I got out my tape measure and shifted the tiles up and down and back and forth and finally had them perfectly centered in the room and I used a pencil to draw an outline to use as a guide for the first four pieces of tile.Enclosed are a couple of pictures.^^^^^^
a Smith & Wesson beats four Aces
The squaw on the hippopotamus.
Do you want the tile on the diagonal, or at a 45-degree angle?
I would like to have the tile on a 45 degree angle.^^^^^^
a Smith & Wesson beats four Aces
> I would like to have the tile on a 45 degree angle.Then you don't really care about the length of the diagonal of your rectangular room. You want to draw a line across the room at 45 degrees and set the tile edges against that. The line will be as long as the diagonal of a square corresponding to your shorter side: 18 feet, 4-5/8 inches, more or less. You'll get almost 14 tiles along that line.But note that the total number of square feet of tile that you'll use would be the same no matter how you lay them out. The waste along the edges will vary a little, but not as much as you'd think. In some cases you'll actually come out better on the diagonal.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
Please understand that I have never laid tile for others in my life. But I've been fussy about how it's laid for me.
Your room begs for a diagonal tile as you say. But in an easier and more elegant manner.
Border your field of diagonals with a flexible width strait laid pattern.
In your case, the length of the diagonal cut of a 16" x 16" tile is just about 22 and 5/8ths.
6 of those laid about 5+ inches away from the 13 ft wall tip to tip forming a line. Centered in the room so they are just about 10 1/8th from each 18 foot wall.
Now lay 8 of those diagonally cut tiles to a perpendicular to the first line, abutting the first line's end tile. Continue until you got an outline of diagonally cut tiles that are equidistance from each wall.
Then fill in the field. Then go back and fill in the border, which allows you to scribe and compensate for bulges and/or out of square rooms. Finish with a matching base.
Wowwhat you're saying makes good senseThanks to everyone for their advice^^^^^^
a Smith & Wesson beats four Aces
Another question about laying tile diagonally.I will start laying tile in the middle of the room and work outward.I need a 45 degree line to use as a guide.The room measures 13 X 18.I will find the center of the room and make a mark on the floor.I will Then take a chalk line and have my helper hold it in a corner.I will take the other end and walk it diagonally across the room until I get to the opposite wall.I will move the string one way or another until it intersects the mark in the middle of the room and then snap a line.I don't have a laser.Is there a better way to mark a 45 degree line across a room?Thanks for any input.^^^^^^
a Smith & Wesson beats four Aces
Hope this helps.Joe Carola
Thanks ! Appreciate it !^^^^^^
a Smith & Wesson beats four Aces
Thanks again, I can see my way would not have worked (since the room is a rectangle)Appreciate it !^^^^^^
a Smith & Wesson beats four Aces
Any Time.Joe Carola
If you measure 13' down on both 18' walls, that wuold make a 13X13' square. Snap diagonals from those points and you would have your 45° reference lines.
If everyone in America was doing exactly the same thing you're doing, would our country be getting better or worse? That's a question for you and your conscience. [Zig Ziglar]
That helps a lot and gives me the lines clear across the room.Thanks for your help !^^^^^^
a Smith & Wesson beats four Aces
For what it's worth. The length of a 45 degree line is always 1.414 X the length of the base line. The 1.414 is square root of 2. So in this case the diagonal on 45deg is 13 X 1.414=18.385'.
Thanks for the formula. I'm writing these down for future use.Thanks again !^^^^^^
a Smith & Wesson beats four Aces
I've never laid out diagonal floor tile, but I have done a large number of suspended ceilinings with a diagonal layout.
For a 2x2 diagonal grid ceiling i find the mid point of the room using the arc scribe method described earlier. Then shift the mid point one-half of the diagonal of the tile in question this avoids having very small peices at the perimeter.
That procedure doesn't mark a 45 degree line.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
I wouldn't do it that way, and I doubt that it will work. It might though...but it would be luck.
Here's how I was taught in Carpenter school in our tile class.
blue"...
keep looking for customers who want to hire YOU.. all the rest are looking for commodities.. are you a commodity ?... if you get sucked into "free estimates" and "soliciting bids"... then you are a commodity... if your operation is set up to compete as a commodity, then have at it..... but be prepared to keep your margins low and your overhead high...."
From the best of TauntonU.
I hope you can open that picture.
As you can see, the room is intentionally way out of square. This method creates two square lines, that will become your control lines. These control lines are your baselines and you can use them to create diagonals.
If you use that same equidistant arcing methods, you would be able to strike a line from an arbitrary acred intersection, throught the midpoint to create a true diagonal.
If that explanation is too hard to understand, then create a square off the two control lines and snap a line through the points. You'll have two diagonal control lines to start your layout decision from.
If you need me to show you step 7 and 8, I will. I'm hoping you will the concept. I use that method for squaring ALL THE TIME! I haven't used a 6/8/10 method since the 70's!
blue
I"...
keep looking for customers who want to hire YOU.. all the rest are looking for commodities.. are you a commodity ?... if you get sucked into "free estimates" and "soliciting bids"... then you are a commodity... if your operation is set up to compete as a commodity, then have at it..... but be prepared to keep your margins low and your overhead high...."
From the best of TauntonU.
Yes it opened up and I have never seen anything like it.I'll try it out this weekend as I'm working on the project.Thanks I appreciate it!^^^^^^
a Smith & Wesson beats four Aces
Blue eyed devil is right on,but in my opinion Peteslagor's border is more classy looking.Just MHO.
I think you're right - the border would look better.One of the problems I had was cutting the planks and getting a straight factory edge.So I bought a VCT cutter at Home Depot for $50 and used it to cut the planks to length. It worked pretty well.I could not use it to cut the 16 X 16 tile as the VCT cutter will only cut tile up to 12 " length.Ideally, I would have had a larger tile cutter the next time I try to do something like this (that way I can avoid all cuts with a utility knife).^^^^^^
a Smith & Wesson beats four Aces
Just a note that this formula (Hypotenuse Squared = Side1 squared + Side2 squared) only works for 'right' triangles, in which the intersection of Side1 and Side2 is 90 degrees.Bill
an education beats a smith & wesson....
im going be rude. if you cant figure this everyday contruction #1 equation, you need to leave construction, and also go read about the cracking mono concrete slab. same problem.
Is there really any reason to post something that obnoxious and unhelpful?
When I'm feeling down, I like to whistle. It makes the neighbor's dog run to the end of his chain and gag himself.
yes.