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I’m just curious if anyone knows how widespread the practice of dense-packed cellulose insulation is?
Names please, if possible, of those using it on a widespread basis.
tnx,
Steve
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Hi Steve,
Virtually non existing in my neck of the woods in Eastern Ontario.
Has no benefits and is not cost effective.
Gabe
*Steve,I am gonna try DP and will definitly switch to something other than fiberglass I hope...Near the stream,J
*Jack,
Joseph FuscoView Image
*Joe,I have blown in cells and I may have blown it in more dense than not but now I would like to try it in new construction and compare it with other systems...Panelman and I both like SIPs to(o...Life is wonderful near the stream with just a tad of DP experience,JJoe It's great to have you following me around Breaktime...What are you working on these days...
*Jack,
Joseph FuscoView Image
*Anybody else?I just read a letter in Professional Builder from a builder in Wisconsin who has built about fifty homes over the last decade using a 2x4 staggered-stud wall on an 8-inch plate and using Cells for insulation. He says it is called a "Saskatchewan Wall" or a "Canadian Wall" Don't know if it was DP or not. My understanding is that it's difficult to DP in a continuously open cavity like that. He says the customers are glad to pay the extra 1200-1500 bucks for the better performance, and that he and his three partners have all built their homes like that.Steve
*This is such a recurring topic I wonder if anything new is being discovered. The one's I've seen aren't that much different than the old sawdust insulation of a century ago. Wonder how much of this striving for a different insulation is just to relieve the boredom of the same old job?
*Joe,Life is great up here on the Lakeside installing courts....Lovin life more each nano second....So what you doin these days for projects other than ridin my behind...Post some more photos...Near the stream movin so fast I don't get wet!J
*What constitutes "dense pack" ? - yb
*Jack,
Joseph FuscoView Image
*Bob the younger,Dense pack is when the cells are blown in to a density of 3 to 3.5 lbs. per cubic foot. Doing so requires a different hosing technique than just drilling a hole and blowing it in till it's full. You use a long hose and generally start with a hole down low in the cavity. You feed the hose to the top of the cavity, blow till the machine stalls, yank the hose back about a foot, blow till it stalls again, etc. till you've backed your way all the way out of the cavity.The supposed advantage to dense packing is that it:1) prevents settling2) prevents any air movement through the cavity, which supposedly eliminates air-driven moisture being carried into the cavity.3) drastically cuts down on air infiltration/exfiltration of any sort.4) eliminates the need for a poly layer on the inside, allowing the wall to dry via diffusion to both sides easier after periods of heavy moisture loading (long periods of high RH)5) when used at ceiling plane or rafter plane, eliminates the need for hand sealing all the penetrations except those that need a fire gap.Fred Lugano is a big proponent of it, and makes a good business out of doing it in Vermont. A few others here have done it as well--including me once-- but not on a widespread basis as far as I can tell. I'm just wondering how widespread the practice is, and who the big practitioners are.Steve
*Joe,Gots ta gets a website built!!!! Have scanner and pictures, just need braincells and time!!!Near the tennis courts pounding 1,956 nails to a court faster than you can say "Lobster Fest!!!"J
*Hi Gabe,As one of the few poor dumb son of a bitches that listen and is on the verge of getting suckered in by Lugano and his DP mafia, Id like you to tell me what you mean by "no benefits" : It doesnt insulate? It rots a building out? It costs so much you cant even pay the phone call to get the guy to come blow it in? As I do 75% of my house renovation as a DIY'er I dont necessarily agree that its not cost effective. For me as a customer. Maybe for a guy like you, you make a better mark up with 'glass, I dont know. I have been following the mud bog between you and Lugano but I dont have a masters knowledge of the fine points of this "debate". But I'll tell you why Im interested in your answers: 25% of my house reno is paid to guys like you and the others here on the board and they all claim to know the answers cause thats why I pay them the big bucks. Now FHB is nice for you pros, but all the other homeowners who buy it and read this BB want to know: why we pay what we pay and what we are getting for our money and what are the best products available. It also happens that I live in Quebec and your point of view is of interest because we live in similar environments. So far, Ive started sealing my living area and eliminating my vents as per what L. preaches and I like whats happening inside my home, so if Im going to use cells or not in the future depends on what I read here. So your opinion is wanted, but with all due respect, I dont want a brush off, remember: I'm a customer and I'm on the right side of the fence.Thank you,Marc
*that sounds pretty labor intensive, what kind or "R" rating do you get in a 2x6 wall? - yb
*Jack,
Joseph FuscoView Image
*Bob,It's not really that labor intensive. I thinks it goes faster than FG once you get rolling. But it's a different construction sequence. You do it after the walls are largely closed.On paper the r-value is about the same as FG, but thermal scans of cellulose walls show a lot less heat getting through. Ron Schroeder of this board has done some testing and may want to elaborate on this.What I like is the list of moisture and air-infiltration advantages, if indeed they are proven to be true, which I have yet to determine empirically or see studies to prove.Steve
*OK, here I go, out on a limb. Last year I was remodeling a house, total gut job, rewire, the works. I call to get bids on insulation and this one estimator asks me if I want a BIBS bid too. I say "what?" He explains it to me and gives me a brochure.Blown In Blanket System, or BIBS, is a blown in fiberglass svstem that sounds similar to this DP Cellulose. There are some (I think) distinct advantages though. It doesn't settle. With a 2.5lb blow they get R-23 in 2x6 wall. (Today after reading your post I tried to find the brochure but couldn't so I called the contractor who did my job. He told me that there is even better stuff now available and they can get R-23 with a 1.8lb blow now). You can blow this stuff 4' thick in the lid if you want, but I think they get they get R-30 with 14" (these may be off a bit, I didn't ask him today, but it's close)As I said earlier this is fiberglass, but it looks and feels more like cotton, doesn't cut you or itch. From what you describe, the sealing qualities are similar, very impressive.Last Fall, BIBS was about 15% more expensive than batts. Today he told me that it is now very comparably priced to high density batts. Honestly, I can't see myself ever using batts again. Like I said in my other post, I really can't believe this is not more widely used. - yb