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Discussion Forum

Nuturing the next generation

jimblodgett | Posted in General Discussion on July 1, 2006 04:11am

A few years ago I was reading through a thread and talk turned to the lack of skilled help available, scarcity of motivated young people entering the trades.  Sounded just about like what I’ve been hearing all my life.

But then I read something profound.  Something I’d never read or heard before.  Something that has nagged me ever since.  It read something like “…maybe you should ask yourself what YOU have done to nurture young people on the jobsite.  Do you bust their chops all day because that’s the way it was when you came up? Or do you provide a good learning environment for them?”

I find myself thinking about that question every day.  Don’t have any idea who said it or when, but I’m grateful to them for saying it.

In truth, I don’t think I’ve done enough. 

So I’ve decided to make the commitment to hire a couple young guys to help me this fall/winter/spring on a couple big jobs I have scheduled.  I’m going to do my best to treat it as much like a carpentry school as I can make it (and still get the job done).   They are both about 25.  I’ve known them since they were 6 and 7.

It feels like a big responsibility.  But more importantly it feels like an oportunity to nurture a couple young men who have shown an interest in becoming carpenters.

Any of you take this approach?  Of nuturing?  Teaching? Any of you come up in the trades that way?

 

Tipi, Tipi, Tipi!

www.asmallwoodworkingcompany.com

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Replies

  1. Oak River Mike | Jul 01, 2006 04:34am | #1

    Jim,

    I don't have the opportunity (yet) to do that for someone younger than myself but I do have to say that is how I learned all I know (which granted isn't much!).  Started working on job sites when I was 15 with my neighbor and here I am all these years later (37 now) having learned more from him and on-the-job training than I did in 4 years of college.

    It definitely is vital to have someone look after you and show you the ropes when you are young on a job than just have someone "tell" you to do the grunt work.

    I mean, we all have to pay our dues on the job but if someone with some experience shows you how, it is very beneficial!

    Kudos to you for setting that as a goal!

    Mike

  2. User avater
    Gunner | Jul 01, 2006 04:36am | #2

      I'm confused. Your gonna lure them in with a promise of teaching them the trade. Then cut their jimmies off?

     

     

    Rock the Tipi!

  3. User avater
    EricPaulson | Jul 01, 2006 05:42am | #3

    Any of you take this approach?  Of nuturing?  Teaching? Any of you come up in the trades that way?

    I was VERY fortunate to have a (several) good teachers. I also got my stones crushed along the way.

    I'm gonna guess that you are into your career 30 years or so, or you are in your late 40's going into your 50's..............that's when you have the desire and the time to teach. Lead by example.

    Anyone can criticise, it takes a special soul to nurture and teach. Good for you. It's a really tough call to make. You know your production is going to drop as you take the time to instruct. But you are making a good investment...........even if they don't stay with you. You know that you run the risk of them taking thier education to another place.

    I say go for it; especially if you believe it will be satisfying to you.

     

    Eric

    [email protected]

     

     

    It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been

     

     

     

  4. Danusan11 | Jul 01, 2006 06:09am | #4

    Kudo's to ya Jim, I done this in the past. The best advise I can give you is take the time to explain things clearly. And when you finish explaining ask them again if they understand. If they feel that your approachable, their desire to learn and please you will follow.

    Explain the proper use of tools and the inherent danger that can happen when not used correctly. Show them how to use these tools by example, and then get the heck out of the way. If they feel that your watching their every move they are more likely to mess up.

    If their attitude is right and the work ethic is already in place you should have a good time and make some money with these young men

  5. User avater
    dieselpig | Jul 01, 2006 06:32am | #5

    When can I start?

    View Image
  6. User avater
    BossHog | Jul 01, 2006 03:21pm | #6

    I figure the vast majority of training I've done has been with my Sons. Every time we do something together I try to teach them something.

    I look at learning/teaching as a process, not an event. (Which one of us here at BT has learned all we need to know?) So I teach every chance I get.

    Of course - You can't always control just exactly what they learn. I think I've told this story here on BT before. But I like telling it.

    My 12 YO Son and I were doing some wiring. I replaced a switch in an old box that had several wires in it. When I reconnect it and turned on the power it didn't work. Thinking back through what I'd done I quickly figured out the problem.

    But rather than fix it right away I thought I'd use it as a learning experience. So I called my Son over and explained step by step what I'd done.

    I showed him which wire was the hot one, which one went to the light, etc. I wanted him to reason through what was wrong one step at a time and figure out the problem. When I finished describing the problem I asked him - "Now WHY doesn't it work?"

    He said: "Because you have no idea what you're doing".

    Turns out kids also learn wit and sarcasm when they're around it all the time. (-:

    .

    I guess my point is to say that you can't just teach someone something then turn 'em loose. Teaching has to be an ongoing process. Sometimes you have to stop what you're doing and explain WHY you're doing it. Or let the greenorn do it, even though you can do it 3 times as fast.

    I think teaching WHY is more important than teaching HOW. Show someone how to brace a wall, and they might do it how you tell them to. Show them WHY you brace them the way you do and they're more likely to remember.

    "I see" said the blind man, as he picked up his hammer and saw.
    1. jimblodgett | Jul 01, 2006 03:56pm | #7

      I'm thinking of writng a small handbook - expected work habits, what to expect from me, what I expect from you, what tools I will provide, what you should bring daily and what you should accumulate and have ready to bring when we do that type work.  Frank talk about unemployment, moonlighting, business practices...

      Not so much a "how we do this" book.  More of a company philosophy book.  What I consider acceptable professional behavior and approach to carpentry. Tipi, Tipi, Tipi!

      http://www.asmallwoodworkingcompany.com

      1. mike585 | Jul 01, 2006 04:21pm | #8

        I think this is great. Makes me wish I was 25 (but then again, a lot of things make me wish I was 25). I learned a long time ago that the first thing people who work for you need to know is what your expectations of them are. Putting it in writing is an excellent idea. I hope these 2 guys appreciate and make the most of the opportunity.

        Regarding Dieselpig's reqest for apprenticeship:

        I suggest sending him a copy of the written rules and expectations first. If agrees to abide by them and has his own tools then you might consider him for employment. I would love to see video of the first time you have to set him straight, boss to apprentice.

         "With every mistake we must surely be learning"

      2. Rufus | Jul 05, 2006 04:47pm | #29

        Jim,

        If you get around to making the book, could you make it available here? It would probably be a good resource and starting point for a lot of guys.

        Rufus

         

  7. User avater
    Mongo | Jul 01, 2006 06:27pm | #9

    Good thread.

    You need to be approachable. If you grimace or roll your eyes when asked a question, you will no longer be the approachable Master to the Young Grasshopper.

    Proceedure versus technique.

    Proceedures are "it is the way it is". You always do it this way. Can be anything from nail gun safety to how to the order in which you flash a chimney.

    Technique is choosing one of several options to carry out a task. The job gets done, but you may do it slightly different than me. But the results are the same.

    There are indeed stupid questions. However, when asked a question, whether stupid or not, before answering, ask them thier ideas..."Well, what do you think?

    Sometimes they'll have absolutely no clue, other times they'll fire off five different options. Weigh through each and let them know how to choose the best answer for the application at hand. Part of learning is geasping the realization that the same square peg doesn't always fit into the same square hole.

    A good part of that learning comes from exposure to different situations, but often times it's best not to just tell someone WHAT to do, but also WHY they should do it that way versus another. Why you're choosing "A" over "B", when last time you chose "B". Telling them "what to do" makes you the taskmaster. Telling them "why" and "how" makes you their teacher and mentor.

    Overly simplisticn and probably a bad example? Because I was dealing with my kids instead of employees, however:

    A couple weeks ago I had my kids up on a roof. Their first time ever. A simple 4/12 tear off and then new architectural shingles and chimney flashing.

    Before we did a lick of work we sat in chairs on the lawn and looked at the roof.

    "Where do we start" I asked. And I meant from Step One. Tarps. Ladders set up and location. Power line avoidance. They offered opinions. I tweaked and massaged their answers.

    We talked about how the different parts of the roof relate to one another, why we use drip edge, Grace, blah, blah.

    What we DID have to do, what we didn't, but why we were doing it, and the advantages of doing so.

    Showed them a few tricks that have minimal impact on job cost and labor hours, but result in a much improved roof.

    We even talked about timeline management. The job was THIS big, so we needed to break it down into these smaller steps, and the goal was to have this done by noon, that done by 3:00pm, this other thing done by quittin' time. This much by Day 2, that much done by Day 3.

    How NOT meeting those goals would affect the job.

    Working smart (water breaks, dehydration, lifting and carrying, tool care, team communication) vesus working brute force fast. Brain versus brawn.

    There were a few hiccups along the way, but they performed well. By knowing up front WHAT was expected and WHY it was expected, there were no shortcuts in the process, and they were able to anticipate my needs without me having to lead them around by the nose every step of the way.

    It's okay if they make mistakes. Be humble and let them know you've screwed up a time or two as well. But if they try to hide a mistake that needs to be fixed, they're toast.

    Everyone makes mistakes, it's how you recover from them that makes you who you are.

    Overall, the goal is to do it once and to do it right.

    To do it safely.

    To do it efficiently and economically.

    Best, Mongo

    1. Snort | Jul 01, 2006 10:14pm | #10

      Interesting thread, Jim. I have two guys working for me, my oldest son and a friend of his. Both college grads and 29. They both want to be craftsmen. Friday was interior door hanging class. I hung a door for them to look at, they didn't watch the hanging, cause I figured it would just make their eyes glaze over watching me.I walked them through four doors that were in the same vicinity. They did well, but I am sorely lacking as a teacher...I'll be following this discussion very closely<G> I need a dump truck, baby, to unload my head

    2. mizshredder2 | Jul 02, 2006 12:18am | #11

      Lucky kids ya got...DUM SPIRO SPERO:  "While I breathe I hope"

      1. Oak River Mike | Jul 02, 2006 01:02am | #12

        You know what worked for me as a "learner"?  The guy I started in the business would get me to the job, tell me what needed done and then ask if I had any questions.  He then would hit the road and come back in a few hours. 

        I learn best by being on my own and not worrying about who is going to jump with each mistake I make.  He would come back a few hours later and if we were say, hanging drywall, I'd have a bunch of it up and one or two sheets in the scrap pile I messed up.  He would say something like "Hey, great job" and we'd discuss any problems I had.  I then would admit to ruining a few and he'd say something like "Now remember when you bid a job like this on your own years down the road, remember to figure in for those ruined ones cause you're still going to do it years from now"  And he was right! ;)

        But seriously, I learned alot by running the job myself and got to know each phase by doing it first hand.

        I'd like to be in a position to have some guys younger than me work for me and try to teach what I know and have fun doing it too.  Just not big enough to hire anyone yet...

        But for those of you that are, more power to you if you chose to teach as we all know the industry needs more "craftsmen" and not just guys who can swing a hammer.

        Mike

        1. User avater
          zak | Jul 02, 2006 01:50am | #14

          I think you've got a good point.  I learn more when I can mess up a little on my own first, see what needs to happen, and all that stuff.  Then, when the lesson comes, I know what to look for, what to ask about, and I'm all ears.  It also helps that I ask a lot of questions at the beginning of a task, and visualize the whole thing- in other words, I don't start out completely ignorant.  Just overconfident and naive.

          Jim, I envy those two young guys.  I'd love to see that book if you ever get it down on paper.zak

          "so it goes"

      2. User avater
        Mongo | Jul 02, 2006 01:20am | #13

        Thanks, but I tend to think I'm the lucky one...

    3. peteduffy | Jul 05, 2006 03:14pm | #28

      Everyone makes mistakes, it's how you recover from them that makes you who you are.

      BINGO!!

      Too often I have seen people screw up, and then spend more time trying to cover it up and/or give excuses than the time it would have taken to admit the mistake, fix it, learn from it, and move on.

      This applies to construction, as well as every part of life.  Work, play, relationships, you name it.

      And a general post to all, something I heard or read somewhere before:

      "When the student is ready, the teacher will appear."

       Pete Duffy, Handyman

    4. Mooney | Jul 05, 2006 05:32pm | #31

      Very good post!

      Tim

      1. Mooney | Jul 05, 2006 05:58pm | #32

        I think I will recieve more from the thread than I gave .

        Since Im doing it , Mongos post was a very good idea that I will steal. <G>

        Jeff did have a point as brash at it may have sounded. When we are out there we have to push it which were my fathers reasons as well. Its our job out there and the customer is first. That makes it a fine line to mark our objectives. Theres some time for training but not a school.

        When it comes to a son,daughter , grandson, etc. , then the customer  might just have  to eat a little of school in session for the obvious reasons. Im working on my own stuff and I eat it and so will they for a little while . Its done all the time in every trade . Its been done so many times to me already. I hire a plumber and his kid shows up , or the backhoe guy, or anyone . I cant count the times I never see the guy I hired for the job when it was him that convinced me to hire him. A time or two I have called and said hey, YOU are going to be here . Its alright if the boy turns the wrenches but if you do the job it will be you here as well. I also know it has to  be that way.

        For a 28 yr old stranger , I dont think so. They have to push it .

         

        Tim

  8. User avater
    JeffBuck | Jul 02, 2006 05:45am | #15

    This all sounds good ... if they were 15 and not 25 year old men.

     

    they're freaking 25 ... the babysitting shoulda been done decades ago. Either they're worth a damn or they're not. That's already been decided ... now turning them into decent carpenters is a different story.

    I think I have a different point of view ... as we all started with Dad when we were little. I was officially employeed for the first time when I was 8 yrs old. Swept up and handed tools ... but it wasn't hanging out with Dad after school ... it was work with capitol letters.

     

    "Any of you take this approach?  Of nuturing?  Teaching? Any of you come up in the trades that way?"

    I don't ... nurture, that is ... and won't. I wasn't .. I was taught ... but any sense of nuturing on the job site didn't happen. It was watch and learn ... try them do.

    If U didn't learn fast with my Dad ... you weren't asked back.

     

    don't know why ... but man ... "nuturing" a 25 year old man just strikes me as everything that's gone wrong with the world. Whole damn reason all my nephews are lazy as can be ...

     

    Now teaching ... like I said ... I'm all for that. And U can't teach by beating someone down each and every chance you get. But I am running a business, not a daycare. And I only teach if they're very interrested in learning .... and it's up to them to pay attention and keep up.

     

    Coupla weeks ago ... got the new van ... needed shelves ... and as usual ... Corey can't be 2 ft away when the tools are out.

    At one point Cath came out ... he's squatted down near the box of screws ... one screw in each hand ... at the ready. I drive one and hold my hand back ...

    "screw" ....

     

    I didn't nurture ... I told my helper I was ready for another screw. He hands me one, picks another outta thje box ... and turns to Cathy ...

    "See Mom ... U always gotta have one ready ..."

     

    4 and a half years old ... he knows the drill. He's a great helper already.

    then again ... I don't care about his feelings ... if he wants to learn I go all out ... the minute he needs "nuturing" ... off the job site and on the porch.

    Jeff

     

     

        Buck Construction

     Artistry In Carpentry

         Pittsburgh Pa

    1. CaseyF | Jul 02, 2006 09:46am | #17

      Jeff,
      What Jim is talking about sounds great to me. I don't think he's suggesting that he is going to coddle these guys at all. Sure most people are going to need a swift kick in the pants every now and again to set them straight, but I don't think that you have to be some macho hard a$$ all the time to make a good carpenter. In fact, patience, instruction, and encouragement are all unbelievably important in helping someone to learn almost anything. I personally never picked up a saw until I was over twenty one. Did that make me lazy? No, of course not. Not everyone is as fortunate as your son to learn things at such a young age. I would have benefitted greatly from a boss that was more patient and nurturing. I'm twenty seven now and am really proud of the skills I have gained (thanks in no small part to all y'all at breaktime) and the work I have done. I worked for four years for a company that I busted my butt for, but rarely invested much in the way of teaching for me. No problem, I took it upon myself to learn everything I could, take on any project I could learn from (most all of them), ask for more responsibility, read a lot on the subject, and just in general be a good employee. If I would have had a boss that was more interested in teaching me there is a decent chance I would still be there. Instead I've been working for myself over the last two years, making way more money than I ever would have being someone else's employee, but honestly, I still woudn't mind finding a really great carpenter who was interested in teaching to work for. At this point I'm still more interested in the knowledge and the craft than in making a ton of money. I would have jumped at the chance to have someone do for me like what Jim is doing. Peace,CaseyCasey

      1. donpapenburg | Jul 05, 2006 05:19am | #24

        Why not hire an older carpenter ? someone you know that wants to retire or cut back .  Tell him up front that he would not have to do heavy work . 

        that what you want most is his expertiese.

        1. CaseyF | Jul 05, 2006 12:32pm | #27

          Don, That is a really great idea. I'm actually doing what I really want to do now in working with guys on the streets of Chicago, trying to help them get out of their cycles of addiction, but if I ever do start up a company here I'll certainly look for someone like that. I had never really thought in those terms before. Thanks.Peace,Casey

    2. m2akita | Jul 02, 2006 03:17pm | #20

      Jeff,

      I think Jims idea of nurture is different than yours.  I believe he is talking about to educate, to further develope.  I dont think he is talking about hand holding and babysitting.  But thats just my take on it.  Jim can speak for himself.

      Nurture isnt a bad word, we dont have to be scared of it.

       

      -m2akita

      Live by the sword, die by the sword....choose your sword wisely.

      Edited 7/2/2006 11:54 am ET by m2akita

  9. Bowz | Jul 02, 2006 06:54am | #16

    Interesting topic,

    I didn't really have anyone nurture or teach me. But I read a lot and was put on jobs by myself, or with another employee that didn't know what to do. Plus I had a year of Tech School for carpentry and woodworking.

    I remember doing my first kitchen countertop after reading an article in a trade mag. (Pretty sure it was FHB). Countertop was on a rental, so tolerances weren't terribly critical, but I treated the job as critical, because I wanted to learn.

    That is a point that may be a fly in the ointment for you. Do these guys want to learn? For instance, I taught part-time in a construction program for a year. Students were shelling out over $4,000 in tuition, yet out of 18 students, 3 were removed from the program for not showing up!

    There were a couple of students that were great. The hard part was not spending all my time with the few good ones, and ignoring the others. At least 2 of the good ones now run their own businesses. When one of them first started on his own I had him help me set some beams and rafters for a half day. A couple weeks later I saw him at the lumber yard, and asked why he hadn't billed me yet. He laughed and said he had learned enough that morning to make it worth his time, and wasn't going to bill me.

    Good luck with it

    Bowz

     

  10. Lapun | Jul 02, 2006 10:56am | #18

    Jim,

    I was fortunate, as an apprentice carp & joiner, to have an employer whose staff took their responsibilities seriously. I remember the difference it made to me when I realised this.

    Since then I have followed a career in developing countries. This meant that before you could build anything, the workers had to be trained. So the result was only ever as good as your training.

    This extended into contractor supervision, sub-standard work needed a training element in correction. Even building inspections carried the implication that pass/fail automatically became a training opportunity.

    Looking back in retirement, I am amazed at the level of our collective achievements.

    What you propose to do is excellent, and warrants our encouragement and support. I hope the lucky guys appreciate your intention, and respond positively.

    Lapun

  11. gzajac | Jul 02, 2006 11:52am | #19

    Over my 30 year plus career, I've come in contact with maybe 100 apprentices. Out of the hundred probably 20 are still in the trades, and six run there own businesses.

    It is most gratifying hearing from the twenty you were the reason they stayed in the trade.Sure they have improved upon your methods, but the end result stays the same.

    The six who are now business men like myself, were capable when I hired  them. I just nurtued them a little and they matured as a compay owners

    I try to pass on the limited building knowledge I have,along with ethics and morality. I guess its like raising kids, we always hope for the best.

    It has been increasingly harder to find apprentices in the white community, they just don't want to do the work. I didn't push my own two boys into it, it wasn't enjoyable to them.

    I have been toying with the idea, of hiring a young latino who wants to learn the trade. I will teach him the trade , he wil teach me spanish. We will be an american/spanish construction company. When I get old enough, I will give him the company.

    I have built up a lifetime collection of tools, knowledge, and memories.Just as my grandfather passed to me, I want to instill that spark in someone before I pass.

    Thanks for listening

    Greg In Connecticut

     

     

    1. wrudiger | Jul 02, 2006 08:17pm | #21

      Greg,

      The CG who remodeled my place and the GC doing the house across the street both have a young hispanic guy who is transitioning from laborer to carpenter.  Both these guys have great attitudes, enthusiasm, always paying attention, and grateful for the opportunity.  I think you have a great idea - a real partnership where both individuals benefit.  Good luck!

      Wayne

    2. jimblodgett | Jul 05, 2006 04:32am | #22

      Jeff - When I say "nurture" I mean provide an environment that's condusive to learning, that accepts where the individual is abilitywise and provides opportunity for growth.  An atmosphere free of intolerant attitudes and agressive language or judgemental co-workers.

      Kind of like the environment I think you provide for Corey.  Acceptance without fear of ridicule or abuse. Always prodding him to take the next step, even if he's a little unsure, because you know that's how he'll reach his potential, whatever that might be.

      'Snort - I'm jealous, man.  After all these years and many summers working together and lots of fond memories, my son and daughter have each decided to pursue other professions.  Working with them was great while it lasted, though.  I know I sure would make different business decisions if I thought I'd be handing this company down to one of them when I hang them up.

      It's all good, though.  Just have to drift with the tides and see where my little boat runs aground next, I guess.

      Tipi, Tipi, Tipi!

      http://www.asmallwoodworkingcompany.com

      Edited 7/4/2006 9:33 pm ET by jimblodgett

      1. User avater
        JeffBuck | Jul 05, 2006 05:11am | #23

        I'll meet ya halfway then.

        I have always hated the "tough guy" attitudes that are on some sites.

         

        "An atmosphere free of intolerant attitudes and agressive language or judgemental co-workers. "

        That is a good thing anywhere. I agree 100%.

         

        one of the reasons I sway more to remodeling over new const is I've found those bad attitudes more on new const sites ... just seems to be the nature of the beast with larger crews and faster go-go schedules.

        Jeff

         

             Buck Construction

         Artistry In Carpentry

             Pittsburgh Pa

      2. donpapenburg | Jul 05, 2006 05:40am | #25

        Jim , you're doin good .  `Someone has to help younger folks .  

        Just an example from my first years as a carpenter.

        I remember my first job of hanging rock in a hirise. One of the guys was hanging rock by the sheet, the rest of us were hourly .  Bill saw me making a mistake as he walked by , he stoped and came into my unit and told me how he would do it . then exsplained a few of the tricks he used . told me what I needed in special tools.  That weekend he picked up acouple for me that I could not get in town.    That few minuts for him saved me a lot of headackes  and sure sped up my rock hanging.  Bill could do almost three units a day  I got upto almost two units a day before the jobended.

        1. jimblodgett | Jul 05, 2006 07:17am | #26

          Yeah, and just the fact that he cared enough to help you learn something probably buoyed your spirits too.  He could as easilly walked right past shaking his head about those knuckleheaded young guys.

          These are both good guys.  Earnest.  Respectful. Kind of young people you like to offer your hand when you see them reach out. I may be getting in over my head here, but I gotta try.  I gotta a few good years left; I might be able to stretch it out a few more if I learn to back off a little on the physical parts.

          Besides, it has always energized me to be around young people.  I'll probably get more out of this than they do.

          Good night Gracie. Tipi, Tipi, Tipi!

          http://www.asmallwoodworkingcompany.com

      3. Snort | Jul 06, 2006 12:09am | #34

        hey Jim, I think you got a damn good plan, and that you're a guy that has a lot to pass along...I just want some punks to do my work for me<G> I need a dump truck, baby, to unload my head

    3. user-115829 | Jul 07, 2006 03:33am | #35

      Jim, from an apprentice's point of view... your the man!

      It can be very difficult to find a mentor that's willing to teach the craft.  There are many talented carpenters but very few that have the ability to communicate and actually teach.  It's also tough to find those who have the time to give up some production (and thus money) to show how things are done.

      However, the other side of the coin is sometimes there is no time for teaching and we need to bust our balls to get the job done and the teaching will come latter.  The relationship between apprentice and the mentor is really a two-way street.  Both parties need to have something to offer.

      As far as young people in the trades, well I'm 35 and just starting an apprentice career.

      Good-luck and I glad you wish for your talents to continue in time.

  12. Mooney | Jul 05, 2006 05:28pm | #30

    I havent read the thread yet but I sure will. Glad you did it !

    Ive had some off handed success and some failure.

    Tis is big subject you speak about .

    I always said if I ever had a son I wanted to teach him some of what I had the gift of being taught . I never got the chance there. He wouldnt work for me 15 minutes. I remember hauling him to a job site and looking around to find he was gone. Step kid , so I didnt raise him. He figgured he knew too much at 15 yrs old. Later he told his grand dad he made a big mistake . Never me though.

    Im raising a grandson since birth till now . He turned 12 yesterday. This is his second summer with me working. He catches the bus to my job sites every day in the week. Hes also done that for over two years. Ill stop right here and say somthing ; I have grown the upmost respect for teachers while on this job with this kid. I see more of my failures than his in teaching .

    I remember back to my father taking the leading role as a teacher with me and it wasnt pretty. I was rebelious and he was short on patience. He actually farmed me out to others to learn. Still I worked with him and learned a great deal whether he knew it or not. He was a single parent and I too caught the bus to the job site. Just being on site taught me a great deal.

    I thought about all this the other day when I told TJ he  was going to nail off all the felt on a roof . I finally had to leave cause I couldnt stand anymore of it . I began making starters by my self away from him. I did check back and turned down his job and made him redo it . I rejected his nailing and made him correct it . It seemed it was taking him forever and I was beginning to lose my patience. So I would just leave as my own father did so many times. I dont know how much time went by as I was already roofing . I heard rat a tat tat in time that sounded pretty good for a 12 yr old. I walked over the peak and veiwed the sound that I had been hearing . Rat a tat tat he had figgured it out and was making time . I had to smile , but it was for him and not me cause it was him that had took a step forward. Then I felt painful that I should have been able to stay with him, but had  declined.

    On teaching older students ; Its been easiar for me but they normally leave me and move on making me wonder why I went to the trouble at all. Then I see them working somewhere or hear someone talking about their work. The end result is that Im glad I did it . Somthing simalar to planting a tree for the shade you will never sit under. You did your part and returned some of the favor for humanity and the brother hood you now feel part of some how.

    It wouldnt be fair unless I mentioned the other sector. My Father trained three sons and raised me by him self. He figgured he was done training because of what he felt. He thought that it was better to hire his equal or better . Pay the money and be done with it and move on to business matters. He did help several but I believe it was by convience. I have to truthfully say I never saw him actually go to the trouble to train another person after me . Not to say his help didnt learn from him , they did. He just didnt go out of the way . He never thought it was profitable training people actually. Im going to have to agree. My experience has been the same . Dollar for dollar the good hands have been the winning horses to ride on. I know they have to come from somewhere and they have to be replaced , but its a special job a teacher does to advance anothers training . It isnt for every one .

    Tim

     

  13. User avater
    jazzdogg | Jul 05, 2006 10:07pm | #33

    One of the things that seems to be a good predictor of long-term success at school is to see which students "devour" the reading materials we give them, demonstrating through their questions and behavior that they've digested the contents and are hungry for more; those that don't have been less likely to be self-motivated, and less likely to actively mine all of the gems we scatter at their feet.

    If you decide to proceed with your written materials, it'll be interesting to hear how your new proteges respond.

    Good luck with your new endeavor!

    http://www.palomar.edu/woodworking

     

    -Jazzdogg-

    "Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie



    Edited 7/5/2006 7:01 pm by jazzdogg

  14. User avater
    trout | Jul 07, 2006 04:48am | #36

    It is a rush to see a young carpenter really get into the business. 

    We worked in three man teams--carpenter, assitant carp, laborer--and he hit the ground running and went from $10/hr. laborer to a carp worth $25/hr. in two years.  Working 60 hour weeks on great projects with constant mentoring and a good helping of self learning helped him pick it up faster, not that he knew nearly as much as the older carps after only two years.

    What he didn't learn was how to do things half ars.  To this day you could probably ask him what the differences are between track house building and custom luxery homes and he wouldn't have a clue.  You could ask him a remodeling question and get a blank stare.  But on the type of jobs he learned on, he's almost the perfect employee.

    Not bad for a kid turning 21.

    1. User avater
      BossHog | Jul 07, 2006 05:18pm | #37

      I thought about this thread when someone emailed me this picture:

      View Image
      Time is the best teacher. Unfortunately, it kills all its students.

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