All – I am looking to install a wood floor. ( I know this is a common thread and I checked the archives but couldn’t find the answer I need).
I have purchased 600 sq ft of 3/8″ engineered tounge and groove hardwood in 5″ wide planks. I am installing on a standard 3/4″ plywood subfloor above a dry basement in an air conditioned house.
Three techniques are given by the manufacturer, glue it down, float it, or staple it down. Any opinions on the prefered install method would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Joe
Replies
If the engineered tongues and grooves are such that they prevent pullout, then you can float it. If not, then you'll need to glue the strips to each other in order to float the floor -- not a fun thing. But a properly floated floor will avoid the most common problem with strip flooring -- cupping and warping.
If not floated......glue is good, staples better.
Unless you're the lead dog, the view just never changes.
Thanks for the response.
These are not locking T&G's. So, correct me if I'm wrong but this would be the order
1) Floated with glue in each groove would be best,
2) Next is staples and
3) Last is glued to the floor.
If floating, should I use an underlayment?Does the glue in each joint prevent water from seeping between the planks?
Thanks again,
Joe
I'm a flooring installer,and I've been asked this a 1000 times. I prefer the floor to be attached to the subfloor so it does have a 'hollow' sound to it ( like a floating floor does). Therefore I would staple it no questions asked. It's faster, cleaner and quieter than all others. However it does require a stapler, so there is an expense.
Gluing would be my last choice as it is the messiest of all, and it is VERY difficult to get started as they tend to slide around on a novice. If you choose this method, I'll tell you some tips.
Floating seems to be all the rage; it's fast,easy and only requires an underlayment foam, but it also is the least permanent, it's springy, and can be tough to start too.
Ther are several sources for how to do an install; NOFMA, Home Depot, Fine Homebuilding, and the manufacturers website/instructions.
(ADDED AT LATER DATE!!) I omited the word NOT from the second sentence after the word DOES. I'm sorry for the confusion. Good installer,bad typer.
Edited 7/7/2005 12:00 am ET by wango1
Don't mean to be pickin' on your typing but is this what you meant?
I prefer the floor to be attached to the subfloor so it does NOT have a 'hollow' sound to it
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
Floating floors tend to have a hollow sound from the fact that when they are impacted, they emit a sound wave that travels down and reflects off the subfloor, arriving a split second later and hence a hollow sound. If you were to attach the floor to the subfloor, there wont be a sound.
Wangie ... go back and re-read your post and my response. You said that you glue the boards in place so that they will sound hollow ...
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
NoHe mentioned 3 types of installation.Floating, glued down, and stapled down.With the floating floor is not glued down, hence it floats.Depending on the particular manufacture the strips might be glued to each other for a floating floor, but that is not glued down.
Yes Bill, we got it, thank you, at least some of us did, including Ed I assume. Ed's point I think is referring to the line from wango >>>
"I prefer the floor to be attached to the subfloor so it does have a 'hollow' sound to it"
Some of us are wondering (assuming) that Wango meant that a floor attached to the subfloor does NOT have a hollow sound... :-)
I often make the same mistake.I am thinking 3 sentence ahead of where I am typing.
From the context of Wango's post, the "not" was obvious, I understood it.
It looks like I'll need to rent a stapler with the proper attachment- no problem.
Question to all - even if I use a stapler, is there an advantage to adding glue in the groove? Will this prevent water from seeping through in areas of potential water damage?
For example, I plan to use this in the kitchen. As, I'm doing this for myself and not looking to make money off of it, would it make sense to spend the extra time and add some glue in advantageous areas of the kitchen?
Thanks to all again for the responses,Joe
If you use glue while stapling I suspect you will be cleaning glue spatter off every exposed surface in the room. When you strike the nailer with what amounts to a dead blow hammer to actuate the nailer you are also forcing the boards tightly against each other and any type of liquid between the boards will be forcefully expelled.
Barring any unforeseen disaster of a leak while you are away I think you can clean up any spill before it has a chance to affect the flooring.
But, since I have never mixed the two applications, I will defer to anyone who might have actual experience.
Thank you, thank you, thank you. I thought I was typing in Greek for a while.
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
My head goes too fast for my hands... Sorry, I did omit the word NOT, a very important word.
Awsome, I love your advise. I already have a compressor and I have no problem purchasing a stapler, will the following (or something similar) work for what I'm doing:
Porter-Cable NS150A 18-Gauge Narrow Crown Stapler Kit
HD and Lowes want $30 a day for renting and I know I have to do this in two stages. (Of course, I'm always looking for a reason to buy a new tool. )
Thanks again
Joe
I think he is talking about a flooring stapler. I don't think the one you mention is correct.
Joe that PC stapler won't work. I have it, and it works well for a lot of things, like stapling 1/4" ply backs to cabinets. But not flooring. You need something like the Bostitch MIIIFS stapler. Amazon has it.
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
Bout 450?
Bout 450?
No, it's not that hot here. Temps in the high 80's but the humidity is very high so it's uncomfortable. Seems like 450 sometimes.
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
Been 90's and drought here.
I'm not certain about the model you mentioned, but most of them have an attachment that aligns the nose and holds the gun at a 45 degree angle for proper alignment. I have a Bostich that I too got off Amazon a couple years ago. Make sure it says for flooring and the thickness you have. Some will have a variety of thickness 'plates' for other thicknesses. Don't forget the staples! Figure about 12 per square foot and you'll be over a little.
Wango -
I put down some Bruce 5" T&G engineered flooring a few months ago and had planned to staple it until I read the installation instructions. They were very explicit about not stapling planks over 3" wide. I glued it down and when I finally laid the last plank, I swore a mighty oath that I'll NEVER glue another floor! (Actually, I was doing a fair amount of muttering and swearing during the two days it took to lay the $%# thing.)
What's your take on Bruces installation instructions? Is there a reason - or is it just CYA?
I have the same question too...
Can I use staples on 5" boards even when the directions are explicit in avoiding this?
thanks,Joe
I can't believe you asked that question Joe. If the mfgr instruction specifically prohibit staples, why would you want to use them? That would instantly void any warantee. Or is it waranty? Anyway it's not worth the risk.
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
I don't want to void the warranty, so I have an email into the manufacturer to see if staples are allowed. When I asked at the store where I bought the flooring, the salesperson said glue-down only, based on an installation requirement she read on a different flooring company's instructions.
I went through the directions for my actual flooring, front to back. No mention of not using staples on 5" boards.
I'll post the response when (and if) I get one.
Joe
That's a different story. based on an installation requirement she read on a different flooring company's instructions Was she working at Home Depot? Shame on her for not reading the correct instructions.
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
We walked in and out of HD after receiving minimal help from the flooring staff.
We actually ended up going to Lowe's. However, I knew when I left that I wasn't comfortable with her answer, that's why I came here. To the real experts.
Ok, you haven't been here long enough to know the shorthand. I said Home Depot. It's understood that the same results would be had from Lowes, Menards, Ikea, and Walmart.
Check out this site. Very helpful, and they have some good wood for sale. hardwoodinstaller.com
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
For what it's worth, last year we had 3/4" solid, prefinished oak T&G flooring installed by a very reputable local installer. The floor is alternating 3" and 5" boards. The installer stapled in the 3" boards and then ran a bead of construction adhesive under each 5" board before stapling them down. The floor was laid on 3/4" CDX subfloor over TJ's, over a very dry basement. Relative humidity is 13% according to my home weather station as I type this.
We have been very happy with the result. Zero squeaks and a rock solid feel. Still, I'd ask the manufacturer how they want it done if I were you.
Chris
Per the manufacturers email:
"Dear Mr. Madson:
Thank you for contacting us regarding Pergo¯ Wood Product. We are delighted you have shown so much interest in our products.
Assuming you have our engineered wood product from Lowe's, you can staple the 5" boards. The reason is because the thickness of the boards are 3/8" thick and it allows it to be stapled to your wood subfloor. Also remember to use either red rosin paper or black asphalt paper on the subfloor before installing.
If we can offer you further assistance, please do not hesitate to call us at 1-800-33-PERGO (1-800-337-3746).
Tonya BaileyCustomer Care AdministratorConsumer Affairs"
>(Actually, I was doing a fair amount of muttering and swearing during the two days it took to lay the $%# thing.)YOU'RE whining? I spent 4 years gluing a floor! And it was with urethane glue, so there! :) I know jim blogett barely believes I'm done, but it's true!
"YOU'RE whining? I spent 4 years gluing a floor! And it was with urethane glue, so there!"If you did not glue yourself to the floor it would not have taken near as long <G,D, &R>
The method of install does vary as the width of the board increases. If you have ever seen really wide (8"+) flooring, it usually gets screwed and plugged. Why? Because the nails/cleats along only the tongue edge aren't enough to hold it down and keep it from cupping. This same rule holds true for thinner boards. Staples can only hold up to 3" wide material. Any thing wider than that will need to get glued so it is holding the board down along its entire width.
I would also caution those who have advocated the use of both staples and glue. There is a reason the manufacturer (the one with generations of experience and all the business $s to lose) does not warrant it. They don't want you to do it. Can you? Yes. Should you? NO.
"I would also caution those who have advocated the use of both staples and glue. There is a reason the manufacturer ........ does not warrant it. They don't want you to do it. Can you? Yes. Should you? NO."
Wango,
Why? Seems to me, that by gluing it to the subfloor it's more stable, done PROPERLY. Now if you are a hack, then I could see why. Then again, there are lot's of hacks out there.
Jon
I posted a response earlier in search of a new stapler. The attached photo from the Pergo website shows a small stapler with what appears to be an attachment to hold the unit at a certain angle.
Can anyone identify this tool?
thanks,Joe
looks like a Stanley/Bostich stapler. Check out Amazon.com for a variety.
Any opinions on the prefered install method would be appreciated."
JM,
Several years back I laid down about 1200 sq/ft of 3/8" Bruce with a staple gun. Went pretty fast, but it does open up slightly in the winter.
About two years ago I used some leftover material from that job to do a landing except I glued it all together and to the floor, AND stapled it down too. Big difference in how solid it feels and it doesn't open up in the Winter.
WSJ