Replies

1. 
   Gabe_Martel | Dec 02, 2000 03:52pm | #1

   *
   Hi Rich,

   I have difficulty in accepting that the floor can't be leveled properly. There's always a way to do it, it's a matter of looking at all the options first.

   You could take the easy way out and shave sleepers to fit the depression in the floor and set them to start at an elevation below the thickness of your final sheating or flooring.

   You pull a line across your floor, down the center first. Start fitting your first sleeper back from the wall the thickness of your flooring.

   This will give you a patch in the center of the floor with an exposed area around the entire perimeter.

   This area you fill with a floor leveler and feather it to the outside wall.

   This way, you don't change the elevation at the doorways.

   FWIW, if it were mine, I'd fix the joists and put it as it were when she was built.

   Gabe

1. 
   Phat_Bastard | Dec 02, 2000 05:42pm | #2

   *Howdy ho Rich,Why can't you jack the floor?No access to the space below?If it is drooping it's going to keep on going I'd say.If it were me, think i would bite it and cut me a good sized access hole up close to a wall but away from a corner. Need to go parallel to the joists too.If the room is to be your laundry/bath, you're going to have to run a good bit of pipe down there anyway.No better way than a built-up three pack beam of 2x8's, plywood, and lots of sub floor adh. and nails. Then hold it up with some adjustable jack posts.If access isn't the problem, let us know what is and we'll get around it. There's always a way. You really need to push the floor back up. 2 posts and a beam beam would be best.P.S. Oh yea, the posts need to be sitting on something solid. Is it a dirt crawl space? If your depression pushes back pretty easy, a 12"x12" concerte patio block makes a nice foot. If there's going to be alot of pressure on the jacks, you may need to pour two small footers. Two bags of quick-crete a piece in a 8" deep hole should get it.Good luck and Be Well, PB

1. 
   Francis_Voignier | Dec 02, 2000 06:28pm | #3

   *No crawl space, take the floor out! You'll be glad you did.fv

1. 
   Dave_Richeson | Dec 02, 2000 06:40pm | #4

   *Rich, I agree with Gabe and PB. Both sugestion are good, but more information is needed.Which way do the floor joist run? What size are they, and what are they bearing on?Something beside old age made them sag. I've worked on one old 1890's house, and it was sold as a rock. Find the cause of the sag and this forum will probably give you many solutions.

1. 
   Jeff_Clarke_ | Dec 03, 2000 07:38am | #5

   *We run into sagged floors all the time. Most of the time if there is no rot or insect damage the sag is the perfectly normal result of using squarish, generally too shallow and often oak timbers on too wide a spacing. Jacking them is a mistake - the sag is frequently a 'permanent set' as I like to refer to it and jacking will just break the end tenons, assuming that it is timber-framed (1841 is a bit late for pure timber frame).It sounds like you've fully investigated the situation and are aware of any obvious problems such as the joists/timbers being set directly on grade, right? 2-1/2" is a lot of sag/set for a 10 x 15 room.Again, if there is no rot or insect damage, levelling by lagging/throughbolting 2x's alongside the timbers is the typical way to go. If spacing permits, intermediate (level) members can be set between the older joists and tapered rips added to bring them up to level.Jeff

2. 
   Phat_Bastard | Dec 03, 2000 05:18pm | #6

   *Hmmmmm......"Permanent set" you say Jeff....I'm in the historic restoration biz and am rarely in or under anything less than 100, many 150-250. These old-timers in my area are either log, or some type of brace frame (a type of frame with elements of both timber frame and a conventional balloon type frame).By "permanent set" do you mean that they were installed with an upside down crown? If the set happened post-facto, the timber would have to stretch to get that much sag in the floor. Talk about hard on the end tenons. Just don't know about that. Could see it in a longer, unsupported log maybe, but these sound like at most they are 15' and maybe only 10'. Oak is some mighty strong stuff though. Will move a long way over time before it fails. Most of what I get into here is poplar. Beautiful, frog-green stuff, good weather resistance, just not great shear strength.Rich,Unless the sag is due to bugs, or a sunken or fallen rock pier in middle of the room, I'd say the workers are our good friends... time and gravity. If in fact a supporting pier has fallen you should be able to push the floor back pretty quick, if however, the sag has taken years and years stretch and "set" you want to go a bit slower. I still feel sure you can jack without any damage to the frame but I'd go more like a 1/4" - 1/2" a week. You really just have to get under the house and start. The wood will let you know pretty quick how much and at what rate it's willing to move back.Just as an aside, I recently moved into a house with just the opposite problem. Over the last 80 years or so the house has setteled, as houses do, rather evenly on its rock foundation. The problem, however, is that right in the center of the basement are two ceader poles that are not setteling despite the now tremendous force upon them. This has turned my first floor and really my second floor into something of a tent. How the poles could have raised the floor this much and not just blown through I'm not sure but there's nothing that can't be fixed. I just took out the non-adjustable ceader poles and replaced them with some adjustable steel ones. I've been letting them down a turn (not quite an 1/8" ) a week and so far not a single new crack in my plaster walls.It's all about time. Since it's your own house, just go slow and things will be fine. Tell us more about what's under there though.oop... the wife is up... got to go. Good luck and give an update. Bewell, PB

2. 
   Rich_Benson | Dec 03, 2000 05:18pm | #7

   *
   Im in the process of renovating a 1841 Sea Captains home and need some help with how to properly level a floor in a room that will become a bathroom/laundry room. The room is approx. 10' x 15' and the perimter is level on all four sides. The problem is that the middle of the room has a depression of 2 1/2", which is gradual from all sides. The existing flooring consists od the original 1" fir boards with 3/4" underlayment, topped with linoleum. The joists have sagged and can't be jacked, due to how the rest of the home was built. How about some type of a poured floor? It can't stand much weight. Any ideas would be appreciated.