Replies

1. 
   EricPaulson | Jan 26, 2006 01:24am | #1

   I'm sorry but I got a kick out of your post.

   You state that you are building a house, but somehow, the meter pans were installed directly to the paper covered sheathing. You asked your sider for a solution which to you was unacceptable.

   Hmmmmmm. Who dropped the ball?

   I'd call the electrician back. Break the seals if need be and pull the pans off and do it right.

   E

   [email protected]

    

    

   It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been

    

    

    

1. 
   mrmojo | Jan 26, 2006 02:24am | #2

   it was good for a laugh

   after a day like today i needed one

   thanks rstallDue to recent budget cuts the light at the end of the tunnel will be turned off until further notice.

2. 
   rstahl | Jan 26, 2006 04:26pm | #4

   Thanks, I was just asking, glad you got a laugh out of it! Sorry to be so dumb, I didn't want to be long winded in my original posting but I probably should have explained this is my first house and I am relying on the experience of my builder (who is doing the carpentry) and subcontractors (who I am scheduling per my builders recommendations) to get things right. This is not a house I plan to sell anytime soon, so I was hoping for serious advice, since I've not been able to find ready answers to this question. Since the sider told the electrician to install the meters this way, I felt I had to trust him, and my builder is on vacation right now since rough carpentry is finished so I can't reach him; it sounds though like someone (electrician or sider) should put a panel behind the meters and when the siding arrives, detail to the panel behind the meters instead of around the meters themselves.

2. 
   JHOLE | Jan 26, 2006 03:45am | #3

   No big deal as long as you only live in it for two years for the tax issues and then sell it off.

   The next owner will be forced to fix it.

   FHB?

   Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City

3. 
   DanH | Jan 26, 2006 05:53pm | #5

   Yeah, have the electrician pull things loose while the siding is installed (or, if this is vinyl/metal siding, while a backer board is installed). I would assume that the sparky was assuming this would happen and left a wee bit of slack.

   If ignorance is bliss why aren't more people

   happy?

1. 
   mojo | Jan 26, 2006 08:38pm | #6

   Ok, so I'm going to be the dumb guy now.  The original poster felt the meters might not be flashed properly and was concerned about water intrusion, however, if they are flashed and sealed properly is there a code or logical reason why the panels need to sit on top of the siding?  There will still be a penetration into the house which needs to be protected so I'm wondering what the difference is between protecting that penetration or just flashing over the whole meter?  I am not questioning any responses but sincerely trying to understand the reason.

   Thanks.

1. 
   MJLonigro | Jan 26, 2006 08:53pm | #8

   The one problem that comes to my mind is that you have a metal meter pan sitting against the building felt, which could trap moisture in between them and cause the substructure to rot. Also, you have more chances for water intrusion around the meter...

   Asthetically, it will read as a mistake..But it can be fixed relatively easily. I believe there was an article in a previous FHB that depicted a way to hide electric meters in what looked like a miniature shed..

   Or, as previous posters have mentioned, temporarily remove the meter pans and side behind them..

1. 
   JohnSprung | Jan 27, 2006 02:47am | #19

   > ...  FHB that depicted a way to hide electric meters in what looked like a miniature shed..

   That's very common here in LA, sort of a little bump-out cabinet type thing matching the rest of the house.  They have a door to access the panel, with a round hole for the DWP reader to look thru.   

    

   -- J.S.

    

1. 
   DanH | Jan 27, 2006 05:16am | #22

   Yeah, there are a few of those around here. Most look like carp. (And carp is a pretty ugly fish.)
   If ignorance is bliss why aren't more people

   happy?

2. 
   DanH | Jan 26, 2006 10:35pm | #11

   There's no real way to flash and seal "properly" when the meter is installed directly on the sheathing. If it was planned ahead a little, and a piece of metal flashing or rubber membrane was placed behind the meter then there'd be a chance.

   If ignorance is bliss why aren't more people

   happy?

1. 
   davidmeiland | Jan 26, 2006 10:36pm | #13

   I think he first posted that there was felt behind the box.

1. 
   DanH | Jan 26, 2006 10:41pm | #15

   > I think he first posted that there was felt behind the box.At the very least you'd have to slit the felt below the box and insert a piece of flashing to overlap the siding below. If this were a square box that would probably work (not well, but work). If the meter base is round then you can't avoid having felt exposed to the elements -- not a good thing.

   If ignorance is bliss why aren't more people

   happy?

2. 
   mojo | Jan 26, 2006 10:54pm | #16

   Again, not trying to argue but what is the difference between a flashing detail for a window and a flashing detail for a metal box.  The window protrudes through the sheathing but theoretically if I can flash a window (without an integrated flange for sake of argument) that does not leak, then can't I flash a box that doesn't leak?

   Perhaps the issue is that with a box against the sheathing moisture vapor can collect whereas with the window it would not?

1. 
   DanH | Jan 27, 2006 05:15am | #20

   Well, for one thing, the window sill is angled away from the house.
   If ignorance is bliss why aren't more people

   happy?

4. 
   davidmeiland | Jan 26, 2006 08:51pm | #7

   I installed my service panel directly over the sheathing with a piece of 30# felt behind it. When I shingled the house I caulked the vertical edges of the box to the felt, and then started shingling. I ordered up a copper flashing cap for the panel and set that under the first course of shingles that run above the box.

   Some people might install a big backer block behind the panel, and flash that in, but I decided just to go with the box and flash it in directly. I'd do it the same way again. A panel set on top of shingles or bevel siding would look like hell and would be hard to flash.

   If all of the conduit and wire enters the bottom of the panel then the flashing might not be such a concern, but on mine there are three conduits leaving the BACK of the panel and entering the crawl, so flashing is critical.

1. 
   rstahl | Jan 26, 2006 10:00pm | #9

   May I ask how long you're installation has been in and if you're aware of other builders who have installed the meter this way (directly over the sheathing and felt/building paper)? Our siding will be Hardiplank over a SIP shell, which means lots of fasteners (every 12"!) and while the service wires are underground, we have 2 penetrations from the back of the meters into the house. Again, my concern was building durability and moisture control, however, I found out today that the electrical and building inspectors both okayed the installation directly over sheathing and in speaking with the building inspector he did not see this as a problem so long as it is flashed properly. The box housing previously mentioned could be the way to go. Still it seems like what is being said is that to be safe, put the siding behind the meters if I can get the electrician to move these for the sider.

1. 
   blue_eyed_devil | Jan 26, 2006 10:33pm | #10

   It's six of one, half dozen of the other.

   blue 

2. 
   davidmeiland | Jan 26, 2006 10:36pm | #12

   I think the biggest issue is how you flash the top of the box.

   If the box is installed over a completed siding installation then that's taken care of, at least down to the penetrations from the back of the box, where water could conceivably hit the top of the conduits and start migrating into the house.

   If the box is installed over the felt then I think you need to flash the top and I think you're best off with custom sheet metal to do this. Wind-driven rain hitting the side of the box can be dealt with by caulking the box to the felt, and then butting the siding.

   The average house has several questionable flashing areas, places where vent fans, dryer vents, hose bibbs, and similar things terminate. In a very small percentage of cases these are actually mechanically flashed in a sound manner. In the rest they're caulked and hopefully the caulk is maintained. In all of the remodeling I've done I've only found a very few situations where someone created a real leaker with this type of thing and caused a lot of water damage.

   Can you post a photo of your install?

1. 
   rstahl | Jan 26, 2006 11:02pm | #17

   I can get a photo up tomorrow afternoon.

2. 
   rstahl | Jan 28, 2006 07:53pm | #23

   Thanks to everyone who posted such timely responses to my question given our backwards construction sequence...I can't seem to post a photo, but after talking with the sider in light of the feedback what we'll do is put a metal back piece and then side and top flash around the square electric meter boxes and finish caulk the siding/metal connection when the siding arrives.

2. 
   DanH | Jan 26, 2006 10:37pm | #14

   > A panel set on top of shingles or bevel siding would look like hell
   > and would be hard to flash.Dunno about shingles, but a panel set on top of bevel siding looks fine and basically doesn't need any flashing.
   If ignorance is bliss why aren't more people

   happy?

1. 
   davidmeiland | Jan 26, 2006 11:25pm | #18

   All those triangular gaps behind the box for spiders to crawl into...

1. 
   DanH | Jan 27, 2006 05:15am | #21

   It's an EPA thing -- habitat.
   If ignorance is bliss why aren't more people

   happy?