Since another thread got off onto the subject of U-Build-It, I decided to start another thread specifically on that subject. I found their website at http://www.ubuildit.com/ (as Gunner said), and I am going to send them an email inviting them to join this discussion, and explain themselves, since a lot of us have a lot of questions about who they are, and what they offer.
If I get a chance, I’ll try to pull those posts with questions, and move some of them over here (or if anyone feels motivated to do that, that would be great!). And maybe they’ll grace us with their presence. If you’d like to email them to invite them also, their email address is on the website mentioned above. Just be sure to give them this IP Address: http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=53698.1
Edited 2/5/2005 3:18 am ET by Huck
Replies
Here's a little quote I picked up from their website (I might actually learn to like these guys): "DON'T always pick the cheapest subcontractor. Most quality contractors charge about the same. Some may charge less because of lower overhead or not being very busy, but the materials, subcontractor and labor costs are virtually the same for everyone. Once your project is underway, you'll appreciate reliability and quality workmanship more than a small difference in price."
Gunner: Another option is go the U Build it route. I think the web site is U build it .com Check it out. They let you be the GC, then they provided you with the subs. They get a much smaller cut then the GC and you have a good pipeline and a GC to fall back on if you need one. I've never known anyone that's used the service but would be interested in findiing out how it goes.kcmarie122: ...We are using UBuildit to do a major whole house remodel including a large addition (practically new construction when it's all said and done). UBuildit is exactly how he described. They are basically a builder consultant for the whole project. You are your own GC but they are always around to answer questions, come out to your site, help you find subs that they have experience with, help you get quotes and help you work with the subs effectively. The advantage of having them help you find subs is that the subs seem to be more willing to work with a UBuildit led homeowner because they know if they do good work, they could get repeat business, not from the Homeowner, but from UBuildit's other clients. We had a few GC's quote us around $400,000 for the whole project (gulp). But we are doing it with UBuildit for around $225,000 (baring any major cost overruns) and we are barely going to do anything of the work ourselves. Our Framer starts monday so we are still early on in the process but it's worked out great so far and UBuildit has a pretty good rep I think. Bill Hartmann: BTW, the are a number of company like Ubuild-It. They all seem to be regional. Presidentail (or President) Homes is another one. And there is a new one from out of Texas that I hear advertising on the Radio. Don't remember their name. They will probably show up in a google on Owner Builder Homes.Jeff J. Buck: Your price did not go from $400K to $225K simply by switching from a GC build to UBuildit. Impossible. Apples to apples? nothing deleted ... no scope of work altered? I'm not buying this one. a 42.5% savings? .... I'd like to see the books at the end ... if something sounds "too good to be true" .... it usually is. No way it's the same end result ... let along same materials ...Tim Kline: dammit Jeff, you beat me to the punch again..... I had exactly the same reaction. I'm sorry the person who posted this thread will read this.
piffin: I think that is how U-build works. Low ball pricing from inexperienced subs who need the work and unrealistic expectations from HOskcmarie122: I'm sure you're right. It's definitely not apples, to apples. Sorry that I implied that you could save 40% by just doing it yourself. I agree that's not realistic. They (UBuildit) say it's between 20% and 30% savings over hiring a general contractor. But I guess we'll see, wont we? I think the GC we got the quote from was used to doing higher end projects. So when we gave him our plans, he gave us an "approximate" cost of the type of job he normally does. He was also probably just trying to being safe by quoting high anyway. We weren't paying him to do the quote so maybe he just gave us a average $/sq. ft. type price. I don't know. He's also got a good reputation too. Maybe he doesn't like to build a home where people skimp on things so he'll only do jobs for people who can afford to do it high end. Another factor with the quote was the fact that it was a remodel so there are a lot more unknowns with what you'll find when you start tearing stuff out. Maybe he put extra padding in the numbers for that too. In reality I just think we were/are a lot more willing to go light (money-wise) on things because there's no way in hell we could afford a $400K home. I know a lot of you contractors are extremely skilled and proud of your work and frown on homeowners who cut costs and skimp on things. But sometimes for us to be able to afford it, that's how it has to go. We decided to skimp on things that we could upgrade later if we choose to, i.e. countertops, fixtures, etc. But not on things that are essential to the basic quality of our home like our foundation waterproofing, windows, etc. We truly tried to balance size of the remodel with the cost and also with the quality. It's a hard balance! :) As far as UBuildit goes, I really don't feel like they always suggested the cheapest contractors. In fact, they often gave us a few choices. But they always suggested a company that they had personal experience with (had worked with them before) and felt that they would do a good job. That's my opinion of our reps but if you go meet with your local UBuildit rep you can talk to them and decide for yourself if you like what you hear.Rob: Kacy, Good points. It's always the reality part that makes it difficult.Jeff J. Buck: That's the big difference .... "cut costs" is lots different than "skimp" nothing wrong with cutting costs to fit the budget ... just don't "skimp" on materials or quality. I don't see a PLam countertop as being "skimpy" over granite. Just c good cost cutting measure. I'm curious ... before deciding the UBuiltIt route ...did U seek out other contractors and try to get someone to work closer to your budget? And .. have U started building yet? This would be a good topic for U to start a thread that updates the process. Hope it works well ... glad to see no one expects a $400K house for $225K! btw ... that 20% to 30% savings ... I'm still not buying that either. Ask the accomplishied DIY home builders around here ... I'd bet most say they saved under 20% ... if that. Since the BuiltIt people are supposed to help hammer out the little details as they crop up ... they gotta be charging for that service somewhere ... Nothing's free.piffen: Since it is a remodel, take the figure you now have ($225,000?) and multiply it by one hundred and twenty percet. $275,000 is now closer to what you wil spend
Doug@es: There is a bit of difference between U Build and President Homes. President sells you the stuff to build, will do any or all of the building. U-Build is more of a consultant, they do have subs at there disposal. Anyhow that's what I know about the two. I saw a billboard down here in TX that said something about a similar Co. I think it was "Ownerbuilder network" IIRCpiffen: I'd be curious to know how u-build it makes the bucks. Percentage? Flat fee? Kickbacks - oops enrolment fees- from subs for placing them on the referal lists?Doug@es: Piffin I dont know if someone else answered your Q or not but I believe they get %, I know someone that built a house down here in TX using them, thats sorta what I got out of it. I may be mistaken but I thought its was in the neighborhood of 10%, dont quote me on that though. If ten percent is close than that sure would cut into the savings that one can hope to make on the whole thing.kcmarie122: Actually Piffin, UBuildit charges a flat fee based on square footage. They (UBuildit) touts this as a big advantage to a GC. Mostly because they don't up their fee if you decide to spend more later on the details. So whether or not you go all out with all the luxuries or go bare bones, it's the same price. Our rep actually gave us a pretty good deal. It's a long story...but basically we started the planning process with one UBuildit Franchise and then had to transfer to the other local UBuildit franchise that had just started up. We switched because the original guy decided to move out of state and sell his franchise. The original guy felt bad about "abandoning us" so he asked the new guys to give us a deal. Basically we added square footage later during the planning process and they still gave us the flat fee based on the original, smaller square footage. The total came to $11,500 for the whole project. But that's typically how they price it. It's definitely not based on percentage of what you spend. We could go crazy spending money on top of line stuff now and the fee would not change (as long as we didn't start adding square footage). Hope that answers your question!
kcmarie122: I don't know about kickbacks...we asked them about it a long time ago and they said they didn't get them but I can't vouch for that personally! They could've been fudging the truth, who knows. But the better subs they get us, the less involved they have to be in our process. The more problems we have, the more we are on the phone calling them! :)Framer: What is their fee?kcmarie122: Their fee was $11,500 based on a 1500 sq. ft. addition. But I think it's usually more than that for 1500 sq. ft. Like I mentioned, they gave us a deal. They also have different pricing based on whether it's new construction vs. a remodel. But both pricing sheets are based on sq. ft. unless you're not adding sq. ft. and are just remodeling existing. Then it might be based on a value $ of the remodel.kcmarie122: Jeff, Yeah, I guess skimp was a bad word. Cutting costs is what we're really trying to do. Yup, we started building in late December. The framer starts Monday. So far so good but we haven't gotten very far yet! Although we did add basement to our existing basement. We wanted a basement under the addition. It was a little challenging though because our old basement was shallower than our new basement was going to be. It involved underpinning but overall it went well. I wouldn't mind posting updates to our project if people were interested but we're no experts. I have been reading through the boards the past few months to get some good tips from all of you!Bill Hartmann: Yes, Ownerbuilder Network is the new one that I hear advertised in KC. There are no U-Build-It's in this area. But there is a Presidential Homes operation. The run ads all the times in the Sunday RE section, usually an open house for a newly constructed home by one of their clients. I don't know what kind of materials that they supply or than just sources of supply. All of the homes that they have featured have been "custom", at least they are not "packaged homes" of any kind. However, I suspect that the homes that they feature or not there typical client, but I might be wrong. BTW, the best that I can tell these are all franchises with different people running the local operations so there might be a fair amount of variation from place to place.piffen: Plenty of builders work on only 7-10% markup so it is hard to see where anyone saves by using them if they sub it all out.piffen: I see K C Marie can we put that to a tune? Thanks.Framer: There telling you it will cost AROUND $225,000.00 and they're baring any major cost overruns. I assume all that is in their contract and all of what your going to do is not included in that $225,000.00 or is it? It sounds like they're acting as a Construction Manager but around here the Construction Managers that I know get a percentage of the job cost and that's anywhere from 10-15%. Your saying they're fee is based on the square foot of the addition. The Construction Managers around here run the job and deal with all the subs on a daily bases and get all the invoices from all the subs and give them to the homeowner and then the homeowner writes out all the checks. Do you do that or do the subs deal directly with you and you pay them? I'm just trying to understand this UBuildit company because I've never heard of them.piffen: Me too, The ads I hear on the radio sound lie the stretch the fabric of reality with their claims but I have no direct informationDoug@es: Piffin I see I have been corrected by some one that actually knows what they are talking about! :) KC seems to have straitened you out on the cost. I probably wasn't listening or my source wasn't any more knowledgeable than me!piffen: Your source mauy not have been wrong exactly. It may be that the company charges a flat feet per sq ft, but that your source was thinking in terms of a percentage, so he made tjhat conversion in his mind and reported it that way. If their primary product/service is to provide advice and a list of potential subs to use, together with sceduled inspections on site, it stands to reasion that the cost to them would be no larger for an expensive home than for a basiv economy model.
This is a very interesting thread, Huck. Good luck on getting them to show up and join the discussion.
"A hard head makes for a sore a$$."
thanks, I thought they might like to come introduce and explain themselves to an audience of hardcore construction people. Seems like the "self-help" niche is growing in all sectors (i.e. "We The People" legal assistance, "Help-U-Sell" and "Assist-2-Sell" real estate assistance, and of course now "U-Build-It" construction assistance). I guess if they're a legitimate alternative, and the niche (of D-I-Y'ers) is here to stay, we might as well get educated to what they offer, and what they don't.
kcmarie122: Hmmm, so many questions from all of you! I didn't know what I was getting into when I posted my first response! UBuildit definitely does not do what it sounds like your construction managers do around there. The only time they deal with the subs without you is when they gather the quotes for you in the early stages (before construction). After they give you the quotes the job rests entirely on our shoulders. We are the decision makers, we pick which subs we want to use (even if it's not one of the ones they got a quote from, we can pick the guy next store if we wanted), we watch the budget, we get the loan, we sign the checks, we do everything. Also, if we decide to do some of the work ourselves, we don't ask anyone if we can, we just do whatever we want. The only thing they do after getting the quotes is answer your questions and help you be "your own GC." They did not say, "your project will cost $225,000, sign this contract and we promise you it will only cost you that much." The quotes gave us an estimate of what we could approximately do the project for if we used all their subs. They are not "baring any major cost overruns", we are hoping there are no major cost over runs besides the contingencies we already have in place. They told us this in the beginning so we put in some padding here and there in our budget with their help. We also have about $40,000 of additional money that was already figured into our construction loan (by our lender) plus we have some money saved in the bank just in case we go over that too(God forbid!). So I guess the project could eventually end up costing us closer to $300,000 if we let it (by picking the rarest of granites for our countertops) or if fate demands it (by something accidentally going really wrong)! Overall, I think it's just like being your own GC except the guys at UBuildit are there to answer questions when they come up. We are the ones who deal with all the subs 99% of the time. Sometimes the UBuildit guy will come out for a "site visit" which is usually our first onsite meeting with the sub so they can help make sure that it goes smoothly. They help us know what questions to ask the subs and how to avoid misunderstandings. But they are not legally responsible for anything really. They also have relationships with various companies that allow us to have the typical builder discount. They say this also helps to save some costs. Hopefully it's not too good to be true for us! We think we have a realistic attitude about the whole thing. We're not expecting our dream house for half the price! I'll post some info and pictures in another thread when I get a chance!Jeff J Buck: So how's that supposed to work? I'm guessing from what U said ... that you simply call the lumber yards they recommend and get material price quotes yourself? Do you just call and say U got their name/number from UBuiltIt .... then handle all the details yourself? And while I'm trying to figure this out .... the plans ... did they help at all with the plans and take offs? Or did U have the plans beforehand then contact them? This is all new to me.
Here are the web sites for President Homes and Ownerebuilder Network.http://www.ownerbuildernetwork.com/
http://www.presidenthomes.com/program.aspHere are a couple of other companies. I have not gone through the web sites to find the details or where they operate.http://www.ownerbuildercenter.com/hometour.asphttp://www.ownerbuildercentral.com/Need%20us.htmlAnd one in Austrila that provides "consulting" for owner builders.http://www.bsc-buildingsolutions.com/Here is someones personal web pages of there OB project. I have not read the details, but I did not see any reference to them using a 'service".And here are two resource web sites for Owner Builder.http://www.ownerbuilderbook.com/http://www.b4ubuild.com/
Huck, this is a bizarre thread. You are directing replies to specific people, but I don't see thier questions. Are you replying to questions from another thread?
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
What he is doing is quoting our comments from the other thread - but not using the same paragraphing - probably lost in cut&paste sequence - and he is not using quotation marks either, so I find it confusing and I was part of the other thread.But I dio think it is good to let them position themselves here, as long as it does not become some sort of indictment or inqusition. There are a lot of Qs that many of us have.
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Just to give you the other side of the story. I am a consultant with the owner Builder Network and thought I would respond. I also investigated a franchise with U-Build-It. As has been stated we are primarily consultants but also educators. We realize we are not going to cram 20 years of building knowledge into our clients on the first project but we can help them down the path. I am in Atlanta, Georgia and there are several U-Build-it franchises here also. Here they charge 9-10% of cost to build. We charge a flat fee of $2.95/sf. The advantage being customers can upgrade their house w/o raising the consulting fee. Many of our customers have a desire to be involved in the building process for more than just economic reasons. They want the satisfaction, they want to do something that contractors may not want to do, or they mey feel they will do a better job because they have a personal interest in the outcome (that is their perspective). One thing I do with all my clients is to educate them to the pros and cons of being their own contractor. We don't want someone to get in over their heads and not be able to finish. The good news is Owner Builder Network has built over 2000 homes with our clients and have only had two who we had to finish the projects for. One difference between these types of companies is in the amount of hand holding we offer the clients. That also accounts for some of the cost differences.
Just had company show up so I gotta go. will check back later and glad to answer any questions.
This link is what I posted to someone who is using Ubuildit. I'm wondering if what I asked or said about this company is true.http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=53614.62Joe CarolaJoe Carola
Joe,
Just read that post that you had the link to. All very good questions, and some of the same I'd have asked. I find this whole topic very interesting. Can't wait to read more, and see if the Co. does infact step up to the plate, and comment.
I've grown up with the theory that my Father always quoted..."there's no such thing as a free lunch" and have always realized that it's just 'Marketing' and not usually a real good deal at all. You get what you pay for...period! At least we expect to. Sometimes that doesn't happen even if we do! (Pay) Does auto repairs ring a bell here?
Dez
The wife and I are heading down the path of home construction with President Homes. I went to their seminar and Homeworx's.
Aside from working with financing companies that are familiar and comfortable with "Owner as GC" projects, here is what they do:
First, you submit a loan app and pre-qualify. Then you can pick one of their models, modify one of their models, or bring the sketches for a custom home. THere is a plan charge for a custom, but it is very reaonable.
They prepare a preliminary estimate based on you doing NONE of the work. The prices are not firm at this point - this just gives you an idea of what you are getting into. If you decide to move forward, you pay a processing fee. This is where we are at right now - we have not paid the fee yet (I think it will be $400) and I will get to see the estimate sometime this week (no fee to see the estimate).
This gets the prelimary set of plans generated which eventually turn into your appraisal plans for the lender. This is also where you go over the list and remove the costs for the items that you want to do. They try and play the devil's advocate and make sure you don't take on too much.
From here they help you with the bid book and schedule. You can use the contractors they recommend or find your own. They also help you nail down the finishes and fixtures. The end of this stage hopefully leaves you with a firm understanding of what your costs will be. You take this bid book and your "cost to complete" to loan approval and then loan closing.
Your final plans are generated (structural and mechanical) and work can begin.
How do they make their money?:
1) "Value Add" on the lumber. They panelize the walls (2x6, 16oc, 7/16"osb, tyvek). Homeworx does a "we frame it, you finish it" program. WIth President, you can put put the building together or hire it out.
2) They make a mark up the other construction materials - trusses, I-Joists, windows, doors, etc.
3) They make a mark up the mechanicals (HVAC, Elec, plumbing, etc)
As far as numbers 2 and 3 go, they are confident that their negotiated prices are better then what you could get the same or similar items for if you source them yourself. However, if you think you can get any of those items for less, they take out "DOLLAR FOR DOLLAR" what they were going to sell you the stuff for. The components they offer are all good quality, well-known names, too.
If this did not work, I think their lenders would drop them like a hot rock. The rates they offer are compeitive, too - since there is nothing stopping you from closing the home loan with someone else after construction.
I know that this will be a lot of work, but we are looking forward to the challenge. They guy that runs the local office told me that 5-10 years ago, most of his customers were in the trades and/or did this because they wanted to do a lot of the work themselves. Now, he says, the majority of his customers are doing less and less of the labor and just acting as the GC. We will be doing a lot of the work ourselves, but not all.
I tried to be as complete as possible on this explanation, but I will try and answer any questions.
"They guy that runs the local office told me that 5-10 years ago, most of his customers were in the trades and/or did this because they wanted to do a lot of the work themselves."
That's kind of what I had in mind when I suggested using them. If a customer could do twenty percent of the trade work, say a mechanical trade and paint and landscape then they could save some good bucks or roll the savings into higher end appliances or features such as vaulted ceilings.Who Dares Wins.
Jim,Is President Homes a national company, or are they regional?Do they do residential additions?As a DIYer I find this thread very interesting. Please keep us informed throughout the process.Mike K
Amateur Home Remodeler in Aurora, Illinois
They are headquartered in New Hope, Minnesota, and do business in 13 states. The states cut a path from the Upper Midwest (MI, WI, MN) to the Southwest (NM and AZ)
http://www.presidenthomes.com/
I don't think they would do an addition, but I'm sure you could ask your local rep (via the website) The website shows them in IL.
I will do my best to keep this thread updated with my progress.
I think the pros (such as many here at BT) rightfully want to approach something like this with caution and suspiscion. I don't think it is a threat to their livelihood, I think they would like to just make sure that they'd get paid fairly and in a timely fasion if they did a job for a PH client.
I suspect that most builders would rather not have the typical PH client as a customer due to the amount of involvement they want in the process. This gives these people, like myself, a way to take on a project like this with some help.
"So your baring all major costs and overruns but what costs and overruns would you bare if Ubuildit gave you a price using all their subs for $225,000 ?
I see now because it's an APPROXIMATE cost. So then all their subs quotes/estimates are an APPROXIMATE /GUESTIMATE to me.
Where are you protected now with any subs pricing. How do you know now that your locked into them that their subs prices can't go up because they were just an APPROXIMATE guess at what the job should cost.
What's to stop that $225,000 from going up to $400,000. It sounds to me like they tell you what you want to here for your budget and then the charge you a fee based on the square foot of your addition and then your on your own because none of their subs that they got quotes for you are locked into those prices.
How are you protected as far as how much more you can go over the $225,000??"
Hey Joe,
Basically to answer your question...you're right, we are not protected. No one promised us it would only cost $225,000. Man all you guys take every comment I say so literally!!!
We, as the general contractor, have taken on the risk that it might end up costing more than the quotes approximated. Which is why we padded some of our numbers when we applied for our construction loan.
We are our own general contractor!!!! I don't know how much more I can emphasize that. Pretend I never made the comment that we are using UBuildit and imagine how we would do it if we, as the homeowner, started the project completely on our own.
That's exactly how it is for us...We would get some quotes from subs and make up a budget and approximate how much it will cost. I don't get why that is confusing? We never asked for a guarantee of how much it would cost. Are not most quotes in in the building industry "approximate?"
Am I just not being clear? I don't get what is so difficult to understand about this!
Maybe someone from UBuildit can better explain. Like I said before, I'm no expert.
(also, to answer another question, yes we already had a complete set of plans from our architect before we contacted UBuildit)
-Kacy
marie,Pleased don't take the questions too personally. They are direct and looking for the full story on this outfit in particular and method of dioing business in general. wE are in this for a living and need to know our markets.That means a GC needs to understand Ubuildit as a competitor. A subcontractor needs to understand it as an agent. And several other potential HOs here need to understand it as a possible business relationship. I don't think anyone is trying to put you on the spot, just tryiong to eliocit as much info as possible. You seem to know more about their process than anyone else in the discussion.As for my comment about what you can expect to spend - this was not to beat you up or hurt your feelings, but to forwarn you about the realities of remodeling and additions, the same thing that your consultant should be telling you. I do admitt to some skepticism as to whether they can actually help people save money when their fees appear to be in the same range as many builders I know make on customs, while Ubuildit takes on less responsibility for the same money. Only time will tell.I, for one, appreciate your willingness to share what you know about them and their approach and hope you wil be willing to continue to update us on things as they go along, as well as to let us help you with things as well.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
kc...
<<<you're right, we are not protected. No one promised us it would only cost $225,000. Man all you guys take every comment I say so literally!!!
We, as the general contractor, have taken on the risk that it might end up costing more than the quotes approximated. >>>
keep in mind.. we take things literally because that's how we live or die
the term is General Contractor..it's a specific thing that is often loosely applied..
what it really means is the General Contractor executes Contracts.. too many people forget this..if you are going to be the GC.. you have to learn the jargon, the laws, the code, and the standards..
you also , to be successful, have to learn not only how to execute the contracts but how to administer them so you acheive your desires
after 30 years ( we started in '75).. it still has it's everyday challenges
anyways ..welcome to the big show... have you read "House " yet ? by Tracey Kidder ?
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
good book . i read it about 5/6 years ago. i got my gc's license last year and things are a lot clearer in a confusing kind of way.tyke
Just another day in paradise
tyke.. i wonder if kc has read "House " yet ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
No, I haven't read it. I'll check it out though!
KC how is your project coming along? Should I be looking in another thread for updates?
I just posted another update in the original thread! We had a bit of a slow down in progress last week and this week so far. You can check it out there!
Thanks for asking!!
Kacy
-Whoops, spelling error!
Edited 3/8/2005 1:47 pm ET by kcmarie122
And that would be... 53790.66
Razz haz a great perspective to see all these threads, from that balloon floating overhead
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I read that book a few years back. Thought it did a good job of showing each perspective...homeowner, architect, and builder. The architect - a little doofy with his head in the clouds, the homeowners - a bit of the hardass, the builders - the heroes.
I wonder how often everyone at the table has such pure intent. It was a rather rosy portrayal, I thought. But maybe I'm too jaded? Perhaps I should give it another read?
We are our own general contractor!!!! I don't know how much more I can emphasize that. Pretend I never made the comment that we are using UBuildit and imagine how we would do it if we, as the homeowner, started the project completely on our own.
This is why I'm asking and probably why everyone is asking all these questions is because you said this in your post We had a few GC's quote us around $400,000 for the whole project (gulp). But we are doing it with UBuildit for around $225,000 (baring any major cost overruns) and we are barely going to do anything of the work ourselves
That's a $175,000 Savings/Difference. Your the one that brought up using Ubuildit that it would save you $175,000 and we're just trying to figure how that can be. I know what being a GC means also so let's forget about Ubuildit.
That's exactly how it is for us...We would get some quotes from subs and make up a budget and approximate how much it will cost. Did you get Estimates from EVERY sub from start to finish on your house?
I don't get why that is confusing? We never asked for a guarantee of how much it would cost. Are not most quotes in in the building industry "approximate?"
What????? You call me up and I look at the plans and give you a price on framing your house, that's not "Approximate" that's what it will cost you period. So all the subs that are looking at your plans are just giving guestimates and not the real cost of the job. I never heard that before. You call all the subs in and they give you a price on the job in writing and that's it.that's the price.
Am I just not being clear? I don't get what is so difficult to understand about this!
It's not difficult at all. I just hope that your not getting in over your head because you've got estimates that are APPROXIMATE numbers not the real numbers for what every trade will cost you from START TO FINISH and then came up with a budget number that is APPROXIMATE not realistic and got a Construction Loan. What's to say that you wont come in close to $400,000 after you get all your real numbers in plus the $11,500 that you paid Ubuildit?
Joe Carola
Joe,
Let me just start off by saying that I should never have stated the $400,000 to $225,000 numbers. That was really stupid of me. I totally agree that that comparison was not correct. I implied that the entire savings of $175K was going to be realized just by being our own General Contractor and using UBuildit. Obviously that is too good to be true. We really don't even truly know what was included in the $400,000 quote. It was a very vague and general number offered to us by a general contractor. No specific details were given to us at all regarding what was encompassed by the quote.
The real reason we "hope" to spend less than that is by having more control over the project, period. So can we just forget that I ever even mentioned $400,000? Pretty please! And I guess we'll see where we come in at the end. We're the ones who have to live with it, right! :)
And Joe, I do see your point about the idea of approximate quotes. But isn't there always some unknown factors that could come up during building. Haven't there been times when you were doing a job where something came up that was a lot more work than you thought? Something that was outside the scope of the original quote where you charged the homeowner more for it?
So when I say we got an approximate quote, here's an example of what I mean:
We got a quote from a framer to do the rough framing of our addition and to do the remodeling framing in the existing house. We signed a contract with him that was exactly what he quoted us. However, the framer let us know up front that there could be some small additional charges if we uncovered something surprising during the demo of the existing house.
An example of this is that the floors of our existing house (before we even started the addition) were not all level/flush with respect to each other. Obviously we want to make all the floors completely flush when we remodel. The framer stated on our contract a $/hr/man charge for how long it might take them to do this since he wasn't sure exactly what would be involved once we started ripping stuff out.
So we did have an actual quote that is pretty close, but we are open to the fact that stuff will come up that we did not plan for, and that our subs did not plan for when they quoted us.
We are assuming that all our other quotes will be similar. We have quotes for pretty much every trade from start to finish and we think that the quotes are pretty solid. But we aren't assuming anything for certain at this point to be safe. Maybe we will decide to go with a more expensive roofing material than the roofer quoted us? Therefore the quote would have to be readjusted before we sign a contract with him? That's what I meant when I said an approximate quote.
You are right in that there is a chance that some subs prices could go up since we gathered all our quotes early in the process. We are ok with this. We understand that that is a possibility. We are fully aware that it will probably cost us some amount more than $225,000. We are just going to try and keep it under control when possible.
(One thing we are already realizing now that we did not include in the budget is the cost of dumpsters. Since we are tearing out a lot of stuff we know this cost will add up. Just an example)
And I admit I was surprised to hear you say that some builders/GC's in your area earn a similar amount as our fee to UBuildit. That is quite surprising. Around here I have heard that most GC's typically earn 10%-30% of the cost of the house? Do most people in your area only build $100,000 houses? Or are the percentages different where you live?
-Kacy
"Around here I have heard that most GC's typically earn 10%-30% of the cost of the house? "There is a lot of portential mythology in that statement
and a lot of potential truthI'm going to pick a bit, but not trying to offend here, just want to specifically know what you mean, especially with use of the word, "earn"or did you mean profit taking? and what "builders" would you be refering to?see, if the builder is a big name developer doing all the legal, financing, streets, surveying, sales, and other risks in bringing a developement to market, with houses on the lots, you might feasably argue that 30% is not enoughOr - if the builder is a small time solo outfit and he does a lot of the work, framing, pouring crete, etc and his labour is included in that 30%, he has also "earned" itAnd if he is a paper contractor, wearing casuals and spending as much time on the golf range as he does at the office or supervising the job, 8-10% might be enough, provided he has enough jobs going on.I am constantly suprised at the way people misunderstand or mis-use the term, profit. You did not use the term, but said earned instead. If indeed it is earned money, why would 30% be too much, and what are you willing to do to earn it instead of him? ( rhetorical question, you have already answered it) So my basic question here realy is WHO told you that builders make that much and did they imply that it was undeserved profit? Is that person in a position to know for a fact what they are talking about? or did they have something to gain by the implication?I have made a fairly large portion of my lifetime earnings by working directly with owner-builders, most of whom wound up feeling like they could not have done it without me, and considering my services invaluable. In some ways, I may have provided similar services as the u-buildit franchisees, acting as construction manager on site all the time. It is not easuy to separate the carpentry function from the management function in accounting, but I can assure you that it is worth at least 5-6%, probably more, but ubuildit is only acting as advisor, apparantly, and not as manager full time. That will be your job. if a sub needs an answer in order to continue or deal with a certain problem, someone needs to be there to make the decision, or he leaves, production slows, or he makes a spot decisionm, and you may or may not have to pay to retrofit...My main reason for my question about who told you that builders earn 10-30% is that I have heard the ubuildit advertising in my area, and it borders on the sensational, implying certain things.
I'm sure that if the francisee in your area has experience and expertise, you can do well, and build your dream for a fair price, but I just doubt that it will be much less than it would by working with a competant, honest contractor. I think the main attraction in a scheme like this would be for HOs who like to be in control of the process, something that I think may apply to you. If that is the case, you will find satisfaction in this job.but go into it with your eyes wide open. There ain't no free lunch!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
>We had a few GC's quote us around $400,000 for the whole project (gulp). But we are doing it with UBuildit for around $225,000 (baring any major cost overruns) and we are barely going to do anything of the work ourselvesSpeaking as a residential designer and GC of my own house, do be careful. Even if we round your 225 to 300, it's inconceivable to me that there is that much of a savings--$100k--available through this process. There are areas where I undoubtedly saved myself some money...tile, t&g flooring, framing...but I did all that myself without any helpers. And even then, if I'm honest, I have to count the opportunity cost of being in the apartment a month or two longer, or the cost of servicing the loan longer. For me, the reward of self-GC was having control of the project so I could make it turn out exactly as I wished. Now, that required a 7 day a week, all day commitment--it's a full-time job.With what's at stake financially, I think it's in your best interests to make sure you can explain exactly where that 100k-175k goes, be/c if you aren't careful, it'll have to come from your pocket on a 3/4 completed project. That's a big oops to risk. For example, are you going to save 10k on the plumber? How? 8k on the electrician? How? Cabinetry gonna be the same or less? Why? Be/c I guarantee you...this is not accounted for by GC mark-up. Overall I doubt I saved any serious $$$. My payoff was the satisfaction of "Hey Mom, look what I built!" And if you're barely doing any of the work, then you really need to do the accounting to figure out who's getting 100k+ less on this house than they would have otherwise, be/c the numbers aren't matching anything I've experienced, either directly or through my clients (many of whom diy-GC).I wish you the best of luck with the project, and hope that 225-ish number isn't set lowball enough to be bait, and then by the time you see the reality of building costs the hook's been set and you're already fully committed. Building is hard, but can be a lot of fun...as long as your expectations are completely realistic. Seriously, best wishes. And keep us posted how this goes.
You need to go back to the orginal thread, that the quote was plucked out of.That was not an apples to apples comparison of cost between the $400k and the $225.
That sounds too much like work. :) I tried to assume a WIDE range on the numbers so that it didn't depend on exactly 225.Am I still safe in saying that anytime there's a cluster of numbers and one that's different, it's smart to try and figure out exactly why and how that number can be different? The notion that there will be a significant gap...whatever the exact number...without a major change in who is doing the work (owner v hired contractors) raises flags that need to be investigated.
Here was an annoucement in the local RE ads for Homestead Homes.http://hhoa.net/
I got the impression from the original post clarification that it was really only ONE builder who gave them the 400K number. And it sounded like it was a ballpark figure rather than an estimate. So, if he's busy and doesn't want to really do their project he may well give them a high number to guage just how interested they are.
To me the system sounds pretty interesting - have an expert in the area help work up your estimate, a list of subcontractors who have been vetted and can expect repeat business, and some light oversight to overcome at least a portion of one's inexperience. I don't see such an operation as being real competition for GC's, I see it as being a tool to help DIY GCs to avoid a cluster. This is for people who were going to DIY anyway and want to try and do a better job of it.
That sounds pretty accurate to me. At Owner Builder we have found that most people don't need us to do all that a construction manager does, but we educate them well up front about the process and so if they don't think they can handle it they probably don't sign up. Also we are on call during the project so if there is a problem they have a backup.
I'm also wondering if he's connected!
LArryThe secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..
I honor the place in you where the entire universe resides,
I honor the place in you of love, of light, of truth, of peace.
I honor the place within you where if you are in that place in you
and I am in that place in me, there is only one of us.
Naw, (except by my ISP!). I just thought kcmarie might like a little company (no pun intended!), and figured in case these guys' ears were burnin' they ought to have the chance to come on over and ed-you-cate us!
Edited 2/6/2005 3:03 pm ET by Huck
I checked their website and found there isn't one in PA yet.
Was planning on offering my services as a sub and get the inside scoop.
maybe I'll call their national HQ and be first on the list?
anyways ... I notcied both UBuild and Prez "offer" financing.
There's their big incentive ... I'd bet their biggest money maker.
back when I was selling cars ... U could sell a car at a loss and if it was financed inhouse ... ya didn't get yelled at by the manager at the mon morn meeting!
something told me the dealership made more off the financing than the sale itself?
'cause ya always got yelled at in the mon morn meetings ....
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
Just to clarify,
I'm not sure if UBuildit "offers" financing so to speak. They do have a relationship with Indymac Bank who does the actual financing.
I guess sometimes it's hard for Homeowners to get financing when they have no construction experience. We tried to get a construction loan through Wells Fargo (our current mortgage company) but they said no.
I guess that since Indymac has worked with so many UBuildit ownerbuilder's they have had good experience with those ownerbuilder's completing their homes in a timely manner and close to their budget. That was why we decided to use Indymac. They didn't question us at all since we had a signed contract with UBuildit.
But I guess it's possible that UBuildit might receive some sort of compensation for referring Indymac?
-Kacy
I bet they make good money from that, too. However, for the record, they don't offer the financing, they are partnered with normal lenders that do. I bet they get a fee for each one. (just a guess)
It seems that the lender, knowing that the owner/GC is involved with one of these companies, is less skitish about writing the loan.
THese companies also help on the legal documentation side of things to make sure that you can get clear title to the place when you convert the construction loan to a conventional mortgage. (Speaking of which - I think one of the companies advertises that there is only "one closing")
Hey, Jim,
Federal RESPA laws prevent any company from taking finder's fees or commissions on loans/finance, so I doubt that there's any sort of kickback or payment there.
UBuildIt doesn't charge fees to subs for them to work with our clients, and I can't imagine that ever changing....the consultant has to be totally free of bias in recommending subs so that would be a big no-no for us.
Thanks,
Christi
Thanks for the info
To your first point, I did not know that about referral fees for loans/finance
To your second point, I think you may have misunderstood me. It is my understanding that President Homes makes its money on the re-sale of the components (HVAC, plumbing, electrical, cabinets, etc) and value add on the lumber (panelized construction).
As far as I am aware, the subs they refer (whom you are not obligated to use) do not pay them.
Oh, cool!
If there's a distribution stream in the resale of product, you could have a point. We don't do that, so I'm unfamiliar with how that works.
Thanks,
Christi
In the earlier meetings, as the rep went over their lines, he always said that they were confident that their products and prices were competitive. However, if you want to use another name brand or know you can get something for less elsewhere, he removes dollar for dollar his estimate of those items from the bid.
I just read a note in some of their literature that limited this "opt out" to 15% of the total home final price. I need to research this more.
Hi, Huck,
Thanks for the invite!
I'm VP of Franchise Support for UBuildIt Corporate. We are a consulting company and work primarily in the Owner-Builder segment. Our consultants are seasoned construction professionals and we have offices from coast to coast.
Typically, the way the pricing works is a set fee for our consulting services. We don't buy products or services for our clients, they do that directly, without markup or margin. We do have teams of subs that we drive business to and they must be responsive to our clients, price fairly, do solid work, and offer superior service. The way they get on our sub list to do business with UBuildIt clients is to do just that, solid work, price fairly and offer great service. Our Franchise owners are prevented from any sort of kickback from subs and vendors and we enforce that with our Franchise Agreement because our goal is drive the price down for the client.
Subs typically like doing business with UBuildIt clients because we try not pack the job site with trades and they get paid quickly. We have good referral relationships with designers and architects, as well as companies that offer building systems, such as log, kit, ICF, etc.
We work with several banks to get financing for owner builders, but it's just one of many services we provide. IndyMac is one that we deal with, but that will differ regionally. Basically, what we do if refer the client to whichever vendor or sub that's best for their project.
There's a ballpark bid process that then goes through specifications to arrive at a wholesale construction price. If there are no changes in scope (which is hardly ever the case) that price is very accurate. What generally happens is that our clients upgrade amenities. Change orders that happen after specification go to the clients at the wholesale price for the labor and materials.
Not all people are prepared (or able) to be UBuildIt clients, so we often refer business to general contractors, production builders, and real estate agents. Once in a while, a client may decide to build with assistance instead of buying a pre-owned, used home, building with a GC, or buying a production home, but that's not our main market. We really don't see ourselves as competition to GC's.
We've been in business 16 years and have 105 offices in 34 states, with more coming daily. We're a high growth company and people seem to be excited about the idea of building with assistance.
I'd be happy to answer any questions that you may have and you are all welcome to contact me.
This forums seems to be driven by Prospero software, so I’ll go see if I can make it ping me when someone posts to me, so I can be timely.
Edited 3/14/2005 12:53 pm ET by UBuildIt
Ubuildit toll free: 800-992-4357 home office (where Christi is) Kirkland, WA.
Hello Christi,
And thanks for chiming in promptly. I wonder if you feel like answering a few questions. As I said in the previous post, I have some healthy scepticism. I'm sure you could lay this to rest for me.I currently serve my clients as a renovation, remodelor. I have been in this industry for ( Oh boy, has it been that long?!?) thirty five years. I still have a lot to learn. I wonder how much training and experience the average franchisee with Ubuildit has to offer their clients? How can a client be assured that the agent they have is qualified? In states where licensing is requirted, is the Ubuildit agent a licensed general contractor? Or is he more of a walking rolodex?If I were to contact Ubuildit to become a franchise owner, what would be required of me? After setting up shop with you, would you provide me with advertising copy or require that I have all advertising puss muster with your management and legal teams? Finally, what sort of insurance does Ubuildit carry? most professionals have errors and omissions and liability coverage, in the event that innocent negligence causes the clients a loss.I can actually see myself in a position such as your company seems to be in, but I like to know how strong a bridge is before I walk out across it.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Hey!
Thanks for taking the time to dig in deeper. I'm here as long as you guys have questions. I'll hit them one at a time and we can go from there.
<<< I wonder how much training and experience the average franchisee with Ubuildit has to offer their clients?>>>
We required that every consultant have 10 years of custom building experience in the market that they will be working in. It has to be in the price range, as well. So, a guy with 10 years production experience would not qualify - it has to be full custom. If a particular franchise is remodeling specific, the experience would be full custom with an expertise in remodels of the same magnitude. Some offices may have several consultants that specialize in for instance, high end, remodel, etc.
<<How can a client be assured that the agent they have is qualified?>>
Again, we have stringent hiring rules and the clients are encouraged to contact past clients.
<<In states where licensing is requirted, is the Ubuildit agent a licensed general contractor?>>
Absolutely. In many cases, the consultant is licensed even when not required. Our franchisees are bound to follow our rules, as well as federal and state laws or they risk losing their store.
<<If I were to contact Ubuildit to become a franchise owner, what would be required of me?>>
We have a fairly stringent profiling process for new franchisees. We look into your background, business dealings (credit, etc), and you have to pass several 'hoops' in the required core competencies. For instance, maybe you have a stellar construction background, but have never run your own business. We would require that you hire talent to make sure your business is run well. We turn down many more than we take as partners because our reputation depends on quality service.
<<After setting up shop with you, would you provide me with advertising copy or require that I have all advertising puss muster with your management and legal teams?>>
Absolutely. We have an advertising program that provides all that stuff (creative, marketing research, strategic marketing, etc). Everyone in the UBuildIt system has to either use what we provide or have any deviations approved in advance. It's a little bit of a pain for franchise partners, but it assures that our brand is protected. If anyone is doing unapproved advertising and is in non-compliance, there are mechanisms with teeth to get that stopped.
<<Finally, what sort of insurance does Ubuildit carry? most professionals have errors and omissions and liability coverage, in the event that innocent negligence causes the clients a loss.>>
We recommend that all our offices carry full insurance. We have several different carriers that we recommend to assist our franchise partners to get insurance. It also helps drive down the price to buy in a group.
<<I can actually see myself in a position such as your company seems to be in, but I like to know how strong a bridge is before I walk out across it.>>
If you are interested in visiting more, feel free to give me a buzz. Healthy scepticism is always a good thing......we figure it's a sign of smarts! Plus, partnering with a company (franchised or not) isn't something to take lightly and should be heavily investigated. We don't take franchise partners who really haven't done their homework!
Thanks,
Christi
Christi,I design houses. A prospective client wrote to me that ..."I [he] will be acting as the general contractor with the assistance of a local Ubuild It consultant. Ubuild It advertises 15-30% savings when using their services over hiring a general contractor."Is his understanding accurate? Is that the advertising? Is that corporate policy? If he has that wrong, can you help me understand the correct corporate policy on expected cost savings?If I'm to properly advise this guy (a nice guy, btw) and design what he needs, I need to get a handle on whether his expectations are reasonable or not.Thanks, Jim.
Jim,
All good questions!
<<I [he] will be acting as the general contractor with the assistance of a local Ubuild It consultant. >>
UBuildIt clients do not 'act as their own general contractors'. Only GC's can be GC's. What they do is manage their own building or remodeling projects. They are "owner-builders", not "acting as a GC". The consultant helps them understand specifications and get bids, get plans, find land, and to stay on top of the phases of building. Generally, the consultant is on the site 23-30 times, in addition to 6 or 8 planning meetings (in the office).
<<Ubuild It advertises 15-30% savings when using their services over hiring a general contractor.">>
UBuildIt's clients are not generally the type that would use a GC, they are usually firmly in the 'owner-builder' camp. It's not useful and largely inaccurate to compare UBuildIt pricing to GC pricing anyway. They are entirely different services. That's like comparing the cost of doing your taxes with Turbo Tax and hiring a CPA firm to do them. Of course it might be cheaper: but there are trade-offs. If you do your taxes with the help of Turbo Tax, you report that you 'did your own taxes', not that you 'acted as a CPA'. See?
The price from UBuildIt is after specifications, so it's very accurate. Usually clients call up a GC and say "how much do you charge per square foot" or some other 15 second question. If you call up a UBuildIt office and ask that question, they will only be able to discuss their fee, not the price of the home in the initical call. So, usually, people wrongly compare a GC's toss-out price to UBuildIt's 'after-spec' price. That's not useful. The price or quote that they are dealing with doesn't often include deep specifications and sometimes even includes land prices, which ours doesn't. It's extremely important for people to compare apples to apples.
Most of our clients may not be doing these kinds of comparison....they come from a different frame of mind. It usually starts with a desire to build on their own and then they end up using UBuildIt because they realize they need help with things like finding land, subs, pricing on product and financing. We refer clients who aren't really true owner-builder types to licensed General Contractors. Most of our offices have relationships with local GC and the HBA, so they can guide inquiries over to them.
Clients are usually motivated by the control of doing it themselves, with flexibility after that. Savings is usually a tiny motivator, if at all. UBuildIt clients do usually get equity, and that is a useful number to discuss. 30% equity is possible to achieve. We've had clients get a little more, if they were great shoppers and did a little bit of work on the site. Most clients end up with 15-20% in equity. We've got a young couple working on their third house and they figure that they will be able to do the next UBuildIt home with no mortgage.
Value is a better way to discuss it, rather than savings.
<< Is that the advertising?>>
Our current advertising positions on control and value. If savings is mentioned in our approved corporate advertising at all, it's in a very general way referring to value -- never with a percentage. We're just about to put up a new website, so the last vestiges of positioning on price will be gone. Brands mature over time and this one has grown up from a price brand to a value brand.
<<Is that corporate policy?>>
Nope. If there is advertising going on out there that mentions savings percentages or even mentions general contractors AT ALL, I'd love to know about it. I'd be happy to post a radio ad, if you want to hear one.
We teach our Franchise Partners to discuss the UBuildIt process with potential clients without ever even saying anything about General Contractors. Just not much need to - apples and oranges. After all, ours is a straight consulting fee and a GC has overhead and they provide a completely different service.
Could be a need for some refresher training?
<<If he has that wrong, can you help me understand the correct corporate policy on expected cost savings?>>
You can't even begin to figure equity on an individual home until you dig through all the details, so any number you get prior to that is a average that is based on the local office experience. In general, UBuildIt clients end up with 15-25% equity. That will vary by region, neighborhood, home design, the depth of the local relationships with subs, and the depth of the local deals available on product.
<<If I'm to properly advise this guy (a nice guy, btw) and design what he needs, I need to get a handle on whether his expectations are reasonable or not.>>
You are absolutely right. What I would advise is a call to the local UBuildIt office that this person is working with. That way you can get on the same page. If you are for sure going to be doing the design, the client will need to disclose all the particulars to you. That's most often done with UBuildIt present. If you need help reaching out for anyone, let me know.
Thanks for the explanation. If I have follow-ups, I'll give a yell. fwiw, I listed his comments verbatim from an email...not my recollection from a phone call...so for whatever reason, what he wrote is the impression that he got from somewhere about about how things work with y'all. I'm guessing that "savings" vs "equity" is a distinction that's lost on a lot of people...they'll WANT it to mean savings, so they'll choose to remember it that way. People often hear what they want to hear.>If there is advertising going on out there that mentions savings percentages or even mentions general contractors AT ALL, I'd love to know about it.Just went looking...your web site home page uses the phrasing "Savings of up to 30% are possible depending on your involvement." Guess that begs the question..."savings" compared to what? What's the baseline?And of course human psychology is such that "up to 30%" means, "Hey, honey, guess what? We can get a $200,000 house for $140,000!"Hmmmmm, now I gotta figure out how to explain it to him......
I know about the website. It's being totally revamped to clear all savings messages out. We'll have a new design up in a few weeks.
Let me know if you need help.
Thanks,
Christi
I want to say what a good performance you have made in a builders room . <G>
So far Im impressed. Im a lisensed building contractor and have been a building inspector for the past year . Ive found lots of holes that GCs leave and Ive worked with one company that is simalar to UBuild it . I saw problems with both systems . It is not necesary that the company be licensed as the home owner may build their own and take out the permits. So thats not an issue.
I had question with the 30 percent also which you addressed . You said the company would drop it . Im curious if its liability? Not a good question to answer I know . Sorry.
I believe with the take off of home owner does it shows and Lowes and Home Depot making it , the presence is here of DIYs . I think that precence is here to stay as I think your comany offers a spin off service that is also here to stay.
Tim Mooney
The owner builder segment is here to stay! Nationwide, it's around 10% of all homes. Of people that own their own land already, it shoots to 39%. Of course, rural areas are much, much more likely to be prone to owner builders. Generally, those folks are very competent to be an owner-builder. And, a chunk of those are hard-core owner builders. Swinging hammers, etc. But, a portion of them get launched on a project and realize they are in over they head. Our goal is to identify those guys *before* they launch off on their own and give them a hand.
Now, a hard-core owner builder might want to use us because they can't get financing or don't have subs and we advise that those clients should be turned away. Our gig is consulting - not financing! We do offer it, but its's icing for the main entree, which is on-site consulting.
30% equity is doable and many of our clients reach it, but in my mind, it's a matter of expectations. What is somebody "ONLY" got 27% equity. They could end up dissapointed. That would be silly of us!
Besides, positioning on price is unnecessary. Who wants to be cheap!?!? Much better to just be darn good.
Thanks for the kinds words........you builders are a tough crowd! ;) I'm going to break my arm patting myself on the back for 'bravery'. LOL! =) Seriously, though, most of our clients would be a total pain for a GC because they would niggle every single thing to death!
Thanks,
Christi
I agree with Tim that you're walk carefully through the minefield that this forum sometimes is. The "bull in a china shop" style doesn't go over well (nor does blatant self-promotion), especially for newcomers. Style aside, there's lots of good info here from experienced contractors, and your perspective is most welcome, too. We all gotta remember that it's "Fine Homebuilding", not just "Professional Homebuilders".
JimDidn't you start as a owner-builder with your tea pot?And I think that Mongo did also?And if you look at the house articles in FHB, while they don't use that term I think that a number of them or OB or semi-OB.
Absolutely...I was thinking of the derisive treatment of diy here at times, as though it reflected anti-quality and a slap in the face of the pros. Almost by definition UBuildIt HO's are non-pros, and I didn't want Christi thinking there wasn't room for them at the table, too. How would the concept go over at JLC?
Oh, absolutely! Our DIY'ers are definately not trained. That's the beauty of diy/with -help........you end up with a really, quality product and home-owner gets the pride of having had a 'real' hand in it.
Now, that applies whether it's us, a competitor, or whether it's just a really skilled and dedicated diy'er. What everyone is after is a quality home, right?
-C
'kay, clue me in. What is JLC?
-Christi
Journal of Light Construction. I've heard they don't suffer amateurs gladly. No real personal experience over there.
Well, most of our consultants are licensed g/c's and a good number are high end. That's okay though.....I'll stick around here!
;0
-christi
Except for the Building Science forum JLC forums are fairly accepting of anyone except fools.An Gary Katz section, Trim, is very accepting of DIY.But fools are treated like they would be here.The one that I though was classic was "I have my foundation in now what do I do next".
http://forums.jlconline.com/forums/index.php
SanchoRon the caballero bowed low as he waved his sombrero and said goodbye.
FREE SANCHO!!!
thanks!
As a full time DIYer, Owner Managed Construction has the ring to it.
be bells and whistles
SanchoRon the caballero bowed low as he waved his sombrero and said goodbye.
FREE SANCHO!!!
This has been one of the best threads I've read in a long time. Great interaction going on here where we can see the experience and perspective from all the pros. Very enjoyable. Now the question: I've been watching a U-build-it project on the way to work each day in Midland Park NJ. Interestingly enough, it is literally right next door to one of the biggest remodelers in the area, Greentree builders! At first I thought they were involved. Now I don't know. But my question is this: this has been taking so long to work on with relatively little progress from outside... how does the consultant get paid? At the end? up front? as the work progresses? If there is financing, I can understand that time becomes an issue. But where it seems to go on forever (with the sign out in front) how do they settle up??? Thanks.
Edited 3/2/2005 4:03 pm ET by big bob
Hey, Bob,
Greentree Builders is owned by Doug Hill, who is also the owner of the UBuildIt franchise. I'm not sure whether you are talking about a client UBuildIt project or the building of the UBuildIt office itself.
I'm going to answer the next questions assuming that we are talking about a client project.
<<how does the consultant get paid? At the end? up front? as the work progresses>> All of the above. Some of our offices compensate their consultants a little at inception and a little at the end of the project, but the bulk of their compensation comes at the major financing draw. That is the way the client pays their fee the franchise as well. There's a good sized chunk at inception, and payments at foundation, drywall, etc and a tiny bit at completion due from the client for the construction fee. Other offices have their consultants of salary with a little spiff at each phase of construction. Either way is fine with us.
<<If there is financing, I can understand that time becomes an issue.>> Some of the lenders we use don't have completion dates tied to the loan. If there is one, you are right, the owner can lose their loan if the project drags out.
<<But where it seems to go on forever (with the sign out in front) how do they settle up>> If at any point, construction ceases for any reason, the UBuildIt office should be a smidge ahead on payment. We never like to get in a situation where we are all the way to drywall and haven't recieved the portion of the consulting fee that is attached to the foundation draw.
Now that makes complete sense!! I thought it strange to have an arrangement like that if there was no relationship between the two, but I never had the inclination or time to look into it. Greentree is one of the best in the area...( I had a client who needed some serious work done to her 100 year old house and no one could get it done except Greentree. I hooked her up with an engineer and the place looks great!) Now I will have to stop in some time and check it out. I live about 1 mile from their place/HQ. Thanks.
Does Owner Managed Construction convey to you that you are being assisted? Could it be confused with plain old diy?
Well, if you think the term 'owner builder' seems clunky, I don't think we are going anywhere with 'Assisted Owner Managed Construction'. :o)
We won't even go to reviewing 'Ubuildit'. Roar!
But as for 'owner builder', I feel those words are pretty well entrenched in the commonplace communication among the trades and people interested in homebuilding.
You'd have to really come up with one to better convey the subject matter.
be an 'ownerbuilder' new word in the Webster's
SanchoRon the caballero bowed low as he waved his sombrero and said goodbye.
FREE SANCHO!!!
We've struggled with this. What is a good term? "Owner-builder" is what's out there now, but I find it so clunky. Really, what person heads to google and types in "owner-builder"?
Is there a magic bullet that describes "doing it all on your own" vs. "doing it with a little help"?
We should have a "magic bullet" contest and our marketing people will have to give up half their salary!
There's got to be a more accurate and descriptive term.
So far for "need a new house", we have production, custom, pre-owned real estate, diy, and diy/with help.
So what do we call the diy/with help people?
Anyone? Ideas?
Name it here, because we can name this new segment right here and 5 years from now, it will be a segment in that pie chart on the census bureau site!
Christi
Christi,How about DIPY, which stands for "do it partially yourself"? Short or long i, take your pick.Seriously, there is a vast continuum between the person who does nothing but buy a house with cash and the one who performs every single task himself. DIY covers a large part of that spectrum. Your marketing materials need to convey the depth of the involvement needed by those who retain your services. Only after you have clearly defined WHO your clients are can you coin a fitting term to describe them.Maybe MIY, for "manage it yourself."Bill
=)
The short I would get us in trouble!
Yes, and the long i would position you with the parents of very young children. ;-)
I just posted a question which should have been directed to you. please refer to my previous post about cash flow...thanks.
Baby Sitting
Owner Assisted (almost begs to be finished with "suicide")
(Both said here tongue in cheek ;-)
How about Owner Managed Construction (O.M.C.)?
Hey, that's good. Hmmmm....good ideas!
How about "Assisted DIY"?
How about "Assisted DIY"?
Like suicide.
I like it!
i can see the connection ...
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
You're a funny guy!
Get over here close to me, so I can elbow you in the ribs! ;)
Edited 3/14/2005 12:51 pm ET by UBuildIt
Just throw a brick at him. an elbow in the rins might make him think you are flirting with him.But man, can he pack a lot into a post line or two!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Psst. I got a secret plan.....before long, see.......he and me are gonna be buds. Now, we're just circlin' round each other, sizin' each other up. LOL. My theory is that we're more alike than we are different and what we have heahhh is a failure to communicate.
Don't worry, few mistake me for the flirty type and I've got hide as thick as a rhino.
'xcuse me a minute, friend, I gotta run to the bar and get a clean glass! ;)
Edited 3/14/2005 12:50 pm ET by UBuildIt
Have the barkeep fil it and put it on my tab. Goodnight now.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
"gonna be" ... hell ..
I thot we already were!
I'm planning on being yer number one referal sub in Pittsburgh!
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
<clink>
I offer my glass. Salud!
In a tragic irony, I'm in desperate need of offices in Pittsburg. Got any leads?
;)
Edited 3/14/2005 12:50 pm ET by UBuildIt
actually I do know a guy that's franchise happy ....
a big picture guy .. always on the look out.
drop me an email if ya want hooked up.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
Thanks so much. I'm happy to have been invited and I think I'll stick around!
Good stuff on all sides.....come to think of it, there's really no "side", is there? We're all kind of in this game for the same thing, eh?
Christi
Thanks Christi, I also wanted to post my thanks for showing up, and staying the course. I kinda stuck my neck out starting this thread, without knowing if you'd show or not, so I have an extra incentive to be appreciative. A lot of hearsay and speculation was being bandied around, and no one benefits from that scenario. You've done an admirable job of educating us about your service, why the niche for this type of service exists, and why professional contractors don't need to view your business as a threat, or a scam.Perhaps FHB will do a write-up someday, to acknowledge the consultants' contribution to the construction market, and to explain the consultant process.
Anytime, my friend.
I'll stick around, too.
I'm tempted by some of the other threads, so maybe I'll nose in a little. ;)
Christi
Edited 3/2/2005 12:16 am ET by UBuildIt
"Nope. If there is advertising going on out there that mentions savings percentages or even mentions general contractors AT ALL, I'd love to know about it. I'd be happy to post a radio ad, if you want to hear one."I think you want to check onthe ad copy going out over the air in Bangor, Maine on WVOM
If my memory serves me, the wording is "We saved THOUSANDS of dollars from what it would have cost for a contractor to built it" The emphasis and tone of voice on the word "contractor" implied a 'shady low quality rip-off contractor' to my ears.
I do not have the name of that Ubuildit office.
But it is a clear attitude in their ad that they are cuimmunicating to listeneers that they are selling on price and comparing to GCs
If this is against company policy, you need to know it.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I will chase it down.
Thanks,
Christi
Hey!
I've got the two ads that have been in rotation in Bangor.
Any idea why I can't attach them? I could email them to you. Contact me by email.
This office is great about having their marketing approved, so I'm stumped. It's a newish office.
How long ago do you remember this being?
I'll keep digging!
Thanks,
Christi
Edited 3/17/2005 12:20 am ET by UBuildIt
These directions for posting may seem simplistic but if followed can get the job done. :o)
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=24441.25
SanchoRon the caballero bowed low as he waved his sombrero and said ...goodbye.
Christi -- We are thinking about going with these guys http://www.ushub.com/ Are they an affiliate?
Not us.
That is nice, little company that operates in Texas. IIRC they're in the mid-state area. Texas has interesting laws regarding owner-builders and requires a "builder of record", so there's no 'pure' owner-builder market there.
They offer a different service than we do. Once again, our main gig is the on-site consulting and building experience as we offer on-site consulting in addition to all the other things like land, planning and financing.
I haven't heard anything bad about them, though!
Don't know why I didn't think to suggest this earlier - do you have pop-up blocker? If so, you may need to disable it in order to attach a file. Another option is to post a link to the page, if you have it available somewhere else.
Edited 3/4/2005 4:58 pm ET by Huck
I didn't realize you were sending me the sound file. I don't have the means to play it on my PC. I thought you were sending a text file.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Ahh. I scripted them out for you. There's two of them for Bangor.
Christi
Spot 1
:30
Lead in Jingle Music, Narrator rises in
<!----><!---->
Your Home’s in Your Hands…UBuildIt
UBuildIt’s the place to go To build your home with
People who know Outstanding service, Remodeling, too
Your Home’s in Your Hands…UBuildIt
<!---->
Male Narrator: (with paced excitement)
Call UBuildIt of Bangor at 1-866-UBuildIt. That’s 866 the letter U Build It or visit ubuildit.com.
<!---->
Spot 2
:30
Male Narrator: (music underneath)
You can manage your own construction or remodeling project with UBuildIt.
You’ll save money and end up with the home you’ve always dreamed of.
Because you’ll be the one in charge of your project – the person always in control.
It’s easy with UBuildIt because they lead you every step of the way from beginning to end.
Do what thousands of other homeowners have done – manage your own construction or remodeling project with UBuildIt.
Call UBuildIt of Bangor at 866 UBUILDIT. That’s 866 the letter U Build It or visit ubuildit.com.
OK, already re-vamped. That is not the one I heaard
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I replied on email aside with my addy.
I have to say that I was terribly negatively impressed with Ubuild from the ads I heard, but I like the concept, having worked more with self bu8lding HOs most of my life.Your interaction and responces here have done wonders for my overall impression of ubuildit. Even if I ended up with a long term negative feeling about ubuildit, I believe I would carry on a positive impression of you for your professional demeanor and actions.Bravo.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Well, shucks.
If I was smart enough to get the files posted, everyone could hear. Maybe I'll wise up!
Christi