Replies

1. 
   frammer52 | Jul 22, 2008 08:47pm | #1

   That would work.

1. 
   workdog2 | Jul 22, 2008 08:52pm | #2

   What would work ??? Nail or not..

2. 
   Sphere | Jul 22, 2008 09:19pm | #3

   Nail the J first then cover the nails?

   Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

   Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations

   You gonna play that thing?

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Ln-SpJsy0

3. 
   JTC1 | Jul 22, 2008 10:17pm | #4

   Window flashed with Vycor.........

   Nail Aluminum J through Vycor - the only way I know to attach it!

   Then three options:

   1) do nothing additional to the nail heads as Vycor is supposedly self sealing.

   or

   2) cover nail heads with a run of Tyvek tape - very common around here.

   or

   3) cover nail heads with another run of Vycor.

   Jim 

   Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
1. 
   cameraman | Jul 22, 2008 10:20pm | #5

   Why can't it be done as Sphere said?

   If you flash it first how are you to see where the nail slot are in the J?

1. 
   JTC1 | Jul 22, 2008 11:33pm | #6

   >>Why can't it be done as Sphere said?<<

   I think he did - my option #2 or #3 (only difference is Vycor vs Tyvek tape)

   >>If you flash it first how are you to see where the nail slot are in the J?<<

   Vycor and "weather restrictive barrier" are both installed before J is nailed.

   "Weather restrictive barrier" = Tyvek or felt.  From Grace website.  Google Vycor plus for installation diagrams for flanged windows.

   Jim

    Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.

1. 
   cameraman | Jul 22, 2008 11:49pm | #7

   Thanks, After I read what I wrote, I was thinking backwards!!

    

   I'll think before I write.

   Thanks

4. 
   JeffinPA | Jul 23, 2008 12:06am | #8

   I'd run nails thru vicor.  Vicor is supposed to self seal and even if it doesnt, a home can handle a few drips of water off the end of a nail

   What about the rest of the nails that you hang all the siding with?  Gonna seal them?

   Why just the window?

   If you are worried about a lot of water at the edge of the window, extend your drip cap past the end of the window 3-4" so the water running down the wall, if it does come to the end of the drip cap, it comes down the wall 4" away from the flange.

   Another option is to put a vertical bend on the end of the drip cap so that if the water does run to the end of the drip cap, it has to push out and in front of the siding instead of rolling off the end of the drip cap and potentially behind the siding. 

   It does make the J installation a little trickier, but tends to protect the wall better too.

   I only use vicor on the sill and caulk the vertical seams.  (naturally I am lapped properly on top)

   I disassembled a fair number of walls where the moisture did get in and stayed trapped behind the vicor.  The areas where it was just osb were dry since the moisture went thru the wall and disippated prior to mold growth.  (the OSB behind the vicor was black)

1. 
   workdog2 | Jul 23, 2008 06:58am | #9

   That's why I felt then vicor over it, any moisture under the vicor then hits the felt.

1. 
   JeffinPA | Jul 23, 2008 01:48pm | #10

   Yep but vicor sticks to the felt so the moisture would look for the easiest path, whether in or out.

1. 
   workdog2 | Jul 24, 2008 04:40am | #11

   I would think (hope) if moisture gets under the vycor it would travel down the felt pass the bottom of the last course of siding & out.. if the felt job is done correctly. I guess it could get trapped between the vycor & felt then what who knows ! 

1. 
   JeffinPA | Jul 24, 2008 05:31am | #12

   what is the purpose of the felt?

   Seal the window flange?

   I recon that makes sense.

    

2. 
   workdog2 | Jul 25, 2008 06:43am | #13

   The felt acts as a rain wall, any moisture that gets thru the siding travels down & out the bottom of the last course of siding. The felt is under the the window flange, the vycor seals the window flange to the felt. Take the challenge consider yourself the drip & take the ride. Let me know how & where you end up as you inter under the siding.

    

3. 
   JeffinPA | Jul 25, 2008 01:48pm | #14

   Yep.

   Taking the raindrop ride.

   got it.

   I do everything except tape the side flanges.  I use tyvek or equiv. and caulk the side flanges to the tyvek but do not tape them.  (vicor or tyvek tape or anything)

   I do tape the "window" cut in the top of the tyvek to set the window but that is all.

   I build the pan and double check to make sure the pan is perfect.  I just dont know that there is any bang for the buck to add the vicor to the side flanges.

   I dont recon it could hurt though.

4. 
   workdog2 | Jul 27, 2008 05:55am | #15

   Thanks for the ride info. You've been great comparing ways about the theory. Its nice to compare different thoughts,never hurts to lessen to different ideas & experience.

   Edited 7/26/2008 11:00 pm ET by workdog2

5. 
   JeffinPA | Jul 27, 2008 06:46pm | #16

   My goal is to learn something new every day.

   For some strange reason, I retain most of the construction stuff I learn.

   I also realize that others ideas are likely better than mine.  (I am pretty arogant, but have been humbled 1000 times so learned how to listen in the last 20 years)

   I have ripped Stucco off entire house and had the pleasure of working with the team at Building Science (thanks to the company owner I was working for for footing the bill on my education) so got a pretty enlightening experience disecting exterior envelopes over a one year period so I am a little passionate about the exterior envelope.

   I am getting prepared to build a new home for my family (once this one sells) and am going to venture into the sustainable environment as much as I can without stretching too far out of my comfort zone which should be interesting.  The BT group should be my best asset for that project!!

6. 
   workdog2 | Jul 28, 2008 08:10am | #17

   Please let me crack your mind some more on exterior. I'v been talking to a siding contractor about this theory ... If the vycor has already been seal to the felt on a residing job do you rip off the felt or leave it....He stated cover it with fanfold than tyvek & reside ? I Wonder about causing condensation with all that stuff on the exterior of the wall. Your thoughts ??

7. 
   JeffinPA | Jul 29, 2008 03:47am | #18

   I would not want lots of layers on the exterior.

   The house has to breathe and when you start stacking stuff up, you will impede that. 

   Just one little area, probably nbd. but around windows where water is most likely to get in, I think you are asking for problems.

   By the way, seal the exterior trim around the windows as much as you want, the window itself leaks so if you dont have a pan under it leading to exterior you are just dumping water into the house.

   I'd rip it off and do over or just work with what is there and make sure it is lapped properly.

8. 
   workdog2 | Jul 29, 2008 06:03am | #19

   Rip it down to the celotex (old black stuff) start new with fanfold 1st,tyvac 2nd than sided. I think I would be just as well off leaving the felt & forget either the fanfold Or the tyvac. Residing with vinyl & I know its a big leakier. Lots of different opinions maybe too many on this preparing exterior walls before siding. Read some on it today on B.T. boy what a mess, who knows what to think or do after reading allllllllllll thatttttttttt. B.T. is great but sometimes confusing. What I got out of it was STOP air infiltration to keep it dry. So without the air how does it breathe. 

9. 
   JeffinPA | Jul 29, 2008 01:34pm | #20

   I like a little air running thru.  You want to stop water infiltration.

   The only reason to stop air is for energy costs but if the house is too tight you need a heat exchanger so that you can have good air quality.

    

   uggh  .darned if you do darned if you dont.