Can anyone provide some advice on the best pex tool/ joining system to use. I am not a plumber, but I play one at home. I do alot of work on my house, and my siblings houses, parents house, inlaws… Nothing crazy, but enough projects so that I think I can justify buying a connection tool. I just don’t want buy the wrong system
I had the opportunity to borrow and use the Wirsbo companies tool to plumb my water softner. I had fairly good luck, with no pex experience. I liked how I could easily cut the connection out and repair it if I needed to. The tool expanded the pex and then the “memory” in the plastic caused it to crimp down on the barbed brass connector. It seemed kind of counter intuitive to be expanding a pipe that you wanted to seal but it worked. The plumbing shop down the road carried the connections and pipe, which is a plus for a homeownwer who doesn’t have an inventory of valves and connections hanging around.
Then I was able to watch a plumber who used a Veiga tool/system to plumb a bath. He swore by it and was kind enough to humor me while I asked alot of questions. He even let me try a few connections. They connections were, I felt, easier than the wisbro and I had more confidence in them. I was clamping down the pipe rather than expanding it. I didn’t get a chance to ask how easy the connections are to disconnect if you want to change something. Any advice on this would be appreciated. As a do it yourself plumber I have lots of oppurtunties to take things apart and do them twice.
Finally, I did a search and found there were a bunch (seven?) of systems/tools out there. I even notices a tool at Lowes (can’t remeber the name).
So here’s the simple question, which one do you buy?
Replies
I am not a plumber but I do remodel houses professionally. I don't deal with PEX a great deal, but a recent client wanted it used in her bathroom addition because the rest of her house is PEX. I went to Lowe's and priced the crimping tools ($100 each for the 1/2" and 3/4"). I had time before the project began so I got them both, brand new, on eBay for $99.
They are both Zurn brand which is the brand my local Lowe's carries. I have had no problems with the joints they make and they even come with a go/no go gauge. Zurn also makes a decrimping tool to dismantle the joints but I don't have one of those.
Thanks for the advice, I will check ebay for the zurn tool and others. Its good to know you can disconnect the joints easily as well.
Well you picked a very opinionated subject & you will see people play fast & loose with the facts.
I will start out with I am biased to favor the Uponor¯ system AKA Wirsbo¯.
No need to worry about the memory system Uponor was the first & they are the leader in the industry----- that doesn't make their system better than the competitors though.
Pex for the most part is pex---- Polyethylene crosslinked together.
What differs between the manufacturers is their joining system. All pex pipe can be joined by any of the brand fitting that use a crimp or compression style joining system, but Uponor expansion system will only work with their style of barbed fittings.
In other words don't try & expand Uponor pipe & ring & have it mate up on a competitors barb that requires a crimp ring.
Now the main reason I prefer the Uponor expansion tool is for the most part I don't have to get the tool into the work, I bring the work to the tool. Which makes it easier around tight spots.
One other thing, even after the expansion has returned to make the seal it can still be spun on the fitting without creating a leak, I did notice with some of the crimp styles that it would not spin.
As you stated being a non-plumber you might want to look into availability of pipe & fittings to determine what type of joining system that you should go with.
Hope that helps & not make the decision tougher.
“When politicians and journalists declare that the science of global warming is settled, they show a regrettable ignorance about how science works.†Nigel Calder, editor of New Scientist
Plumbbill, Thanks for the help. It's good to know upnor/wirsbo is being used alot in the industry. As I said before I don't want to buy in to a system of pex that won't still be on the market in ten years.
Though I liked the upnor/wirsbro expansion tool one problem I had when using it was the sleeve/plastic crimp would sometimes slide back away from the end of the tube as I expanded it. This, I think, lead to the one leak I had to repair. Any advice on why this might have happened?
Also, do you find that upnor/wirsbro is carried at alot of plumbing supply stores?
Rings slipping is usually caused by wet pipe or ring.
If you leave the ring "proud" of the end of the pipe usually cures the slipping part.
I predominantly get all my Uponor from FNW AKA Ferguson they are nationwide & mainly a wholesaler, but like most wholesalers you can usually get them to sell to anybody if you make up a goofy company name.“When politicians and journalists declare that the science of global warming is settled, they show a regrettable ignorance about how science works.†Nigel Calder, editor of New Scientist
I was in Home Depot the other day and a demo was being done to show a product called "shark bite". The rep showed how all the different fittings could be used with pex tubing, copper & cpvc also there was no crimping or expanding like on pex. The fitting could be removed if needed with a simple little horseshoe shaped tool. click the link I think you'll find it interesting if nothing else.
http://www.plumbingsupply.com/shark-bite-fittings.html
That's a slick system for those repairs in inaccessible spots where lighting the house on fire is a possibility.
Even at $13 + per slip coupling it's better than a fire.
The rest of the fittings are way pricey if you were thinking of plumbing a house.
Joe H
I also think Sharkbites are great. BUT, they are too expensive to use for all fittings in a house. I have used them to interconnect copper, PB and PEX. They also fit cpvc, but I have not had that need yet. I am using about a hundred Sharkbites and TechTites on some industrial machinery. I like the Sharkbite brand much better, but the Techtites seem to work. I used these type of connections because of field repairability without the need for any special tools. Even the removal of the fittings can be done with an adjustable wrench instead of the horseshoe plastic part.No leaks so far!Frank DuVal You can never make something foolproof because fools are so ingenious.
Great link, I especially enjoyed their "favorite quotes" section. thanks
since wirsbo is the only approved system here... and the factory guy came out and "trained & certified me" and my supply house stocks about everything i need AND they let me use the battery powered tool for free when i need it (1.5" pex) then i have to vote for the wirsbo system... i just see no reason to use anything else... besides the prices are more than fair...
i say go with what you have access to...
p
Buy what is available locally.
I have the Wirsbo/Uphonor tool & no place local for parts.
I have crimpers too, those pieces are available everywhere.
I've never tried the SS clamp type, one tool fits all sizes but don't know anything about it long term except cheap to tool up.
Joe H
Me too...used the crimper type. It was easy as pie but I think I'd feel more secure with the expander style...although....everythings held just fine with the crimper. Call me paronoid. My supply house only sold large rolls of PEX so I went with the red 200'+ roll because I needed it for heat as well. wasn't terribly more expensive so... I just made sure to label my hot and cold lines so as not to cross them.
The crimper tool was only $90 at my supply house. The cutter tool was about ten bucks.
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I was shocked at how easy it was especially for a first time user running it from one end of the house about 50' to the other and up two floors.
You know, not to generalize, but the 29% of people who still support President Bush are the ones who love to pronounce themselves more patriotic than the rest of us. But just saying you're patriotic is like saying you have a big one. If you have to say it, chances are it's not true.
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Looking at that photo reinforces my thoughts last weekend while plumbing a bath with hard copper. Wet wall had lots of connections to be made to shower, washing machine box, etc.All that cutting, fitting, shining, fluxing...and torching next to studs, PVC drains and acrylic shower. My weekend mantra - a heck of a lot quicker and safer with Pex.Next time...Todd
Joe what brand of crimpers are you using? Veiga? How to you remove the crimp if you need to make a change?
Zurn and MIL3.
Don't f up, or you cut it off.
Joe H
I used the Watts WaterPEX system with their CinchClamps. The local place only sells Watts, and was not interested in special ordering anything else. They also sell the Watts Onix rubber tubing for radiant heat, which a lot of local plumbers are using. I like the way my system went together, I would do it again if I had to.
On the Japanese market there are a number of PEX products
that require a simple stab into the connector, no tools.
In addition, all of the PEX pipes come insulated and color
coded, blue for cold and red for hot, and the manifolds
have insulating jackets, too (for condensation). I like.
However, the Europeans have developed a hybrid of PEX and stainless,
marketed as an affordable, flexible stainless piping for residential
use, that they are claiming has twice the lifespan even of PEX. It has
standard PEX pipe on the outside with a thin stainless liner,
which is thin enough to be somewhat flexible. Pipe is about
$2 l.f. and the fittings $10 and up, so you're talking a
couple thousand dollars in plumbing parts for a typical house.
This would seem to be about ideal.
I use Kitec 2 fittings with Plumbest Pex (Aluminum sandwiched between two layers of plastic.) I love it. I'm a remodeling contractor and I love how you can fish the pipe through walls just like running Romex. The other benefits are that it doesn't split if it freezes, you don't have to worry about burning the house down (except when you're tying onto the existing copper in the house.) Plus, crack heads won't steal it since there's no salvage value. (I've been doing a lot of re-running pipe after they break in and steal the whole basement's worth of pipe).
The only down side is the initial cost of buying the crimpers, but after that, the cost per foot is $.41/per ft. versus $1.50 for copper. I've rough plumbed an entire master suite addition (Two sinks, toilet, shower, whirlpool tub) from the basement to the second floor in 4 hours! Try and do that with copper!
It's great stuff. (BTW, Kitec 2 fittings have rubber "O" rings on the barb to ensure leak free connection. (If you're soldering an adaptor, you've got to put a cooling gel on the rubber rings, and keep a wet rag close to cool the fitting as soon as it's soldered. After that, it's quite and easy...
It's probably most important that you pick one system and stick with it and not switch differing brands of components.
There are only a hundred crimps or so on my Zern crimpers and every joint has passed the 100 psi of air for 24 hr. test. In fact I've never seen or heard of a crimp ring not sealing unless it was installed with an out of square crimp by a knuckle head. Sorry Knuckle Head, but it's true.
Every plumber I've worked with the past half dozen years has used crimp rings on pex from day one.
A good set of end nippers will cut the copper ring, but the real trick is convincing the PEX to let go of the fitting. A shallow cut with the utility knife, followed by carefully snipping from the opposite side with the end nippers will do it without damage, but it requires some concentration to not tweak the fitting.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
"but the real trick is convincing the PEX to let go of the fitting. A shallow cut with the utility knife, followed by carefully snipping from the opposite side with the end nippers will do it without damage, but it requires some concentration to not tweak the fitting"
The best way I've found to remove a fitting is to use a bit of heat from a torch or, better, a heat gun, until the pex turns clear. Then it pops off pretty easily. Using knives and/or nippers, I usually end up scratching the fitting.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA