We’re doing a foundation and driveway replacement, and while we’re at it, updating the sewer. One of the plumbers bid based on trenching (30′ +/-) along the back of the house, then pulling through (70′ +/-) from the back corner to the city clean out.
The next guy bid based on pulling through all the way, and disagreed with the first guy’s opinion that pulling the line around the corner was a bad idea.
Is there a problem with pulling pvc sewer line around a 90 deg. corner? It’ll have to pass either way, of course, but what do you think?
thanks,
k
Replies
I have never heard of pulling PVC sewer pipe.
I have not seen any htat is flexable enough.
All I hve seen it is trenched the full lenght and then assembled in placed.
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
It's real common here, I only see any significant trenching if there are lots of short runs and corners now. Terra cotta sewer replacement, I should clarify.
Definitely done all the time, laterals, city mains, you name it. The entire bay area is on notice to replace all the old clay lines by the bay water quality board. Replacement is required for sale in a lot of towns.
You have to dig a short trench at either end, so the sweep of line can get fed in, and so the winch can pull it out at the other. There's a metal tip that blows the old terra cotta line apart as the new line moves through. You dig a hole wherever you need to tie in.
But, I've never seen it go around a corner, hence the q.
k
I've had trenchless done twice, once in Oakland once in Piedmont. In both cases they used welded SDR pipe and there's no way you could pull it around a corner. It should be very easy to get independent confirmation about whether or not this is somehow possible. I used Harry Clark in Oakland, call them and ask. You might also be able to get some info at terrylove.com
Yeah, Harry Clark's a good company. They did the gas line retro on my own house.
Pipe Spy was the co. that talked about pulling it all the way. I haven't seen the final bid, maybe they were talking about pulling it twice, once to the corner, once from there. I don't think that's what the guy said, though. I'd never heard of it either.
Is SDR a type of plastic? Is it not PVC?
thanks, k
P.S. Piedmont, Oakland- I thought your profile says WA.?
Edited 5/28/2008 1:19 am ET by KFC
Live in WA now, lived down there almost 20 years. I think they'll dig a pit at the corner and use a rubber 90 to join the two pieces, no matter who does it. Only seen 'em weld the straight lengths. SDR is a type of sewer pipe, and it's black.
Is Heiko still the guy at Pipe Spy?
Edited 5/28/2008 1:22 am by davidmeiland
I don't know him by name. Is he the tall German or Scandanavian guy?
The stuff I've seen pulled is grey, I assumed it was pvc, but mebbe not.
k
Edited 5/28/2008 1:32 am ET by KFC
So, out of curiosity, what's the tighest bend that can be pulled through with a trenchless replacement?
k
There are a number of different pipe standards. In the house DWV is defined by Schedule. Sch 40 being most common. But there is also a sch 30, 3" available to fit in a 2x4 wall.Outside you have sch 40, SDR 35, and Drain and Sewer.And Sch 40 is available in PVC and ABS. Here ABS is limited and mostly used for retrofit.Schedule is just that. The pipe is speced by a schedule and I understand the pressure rates very by size.SDR - I think stands for standard diameter ration or something similar. In it he wall thickness is in ratio to the diameter so that the presure rating is constant. There are a number of differ SDR rations 35 is used for exterior sewer and drain pipe. There are other SDR series pipes that are used for water mains, etc. I think that the PE pipe that is used for irrigation, water service, well, and ground contact heat pumps is also and SDR series rated pipe. The 3rd is Sewer and Drain (Or is it Drain and Sewer). Since the other is also used for sewer and drain it can get confusing. Official it is know by it's ASTM standard and off the top of my head don't remember the number.SDR 35 and S&D have the same OD and can be interchanged. Sch 40 is slightly different and needs an addapter.Some S&D is styrene. I think that it may be available in other plastics. Not sure about SDR 35. It might be PVC.Also several of the are availalbe in co-extrusion. Those have hard inner and outter surface and thin foam core. I also go the impression, but not sure that some co-extrusions have different plastics on the inside and out.Now in this area I have never seen any of sch 40 , SDR 35 or S&D in gray or black. They are white or green. IIRC is the S&D that is green.Piffin mentioned a 4th standard that I had never heard of..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
is this a liner???
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I know that relining is done all the time....
googled the process...
there are/is a lot criteria to be met to turn radiuses....
I'd vote not to pull a turn... too many ifs, ands, ors and buts....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
No, it's not a liner (if by liner you mean a sealing secondary part to a structural first part). It's the new line in entirety. As a replacement for old, broken, or disjointed clay lines, so there is a void to pull through, as long as you bust the terra cotta apart.
It's plastic, I always thought PVC, but could be any number of formulations, I suppose. It's marketed as "trenchless sewer replacement", although you need two holes at either end. Pretty much the only way it's done for replacement here.
4", 6", bigger, all different sizes.
k
Edited 5/28/2008 11:13 am ET by KFC
Now that I know the name of the process I was able to find some information.It uses PE, polyethelene pipe.That is flexable. I have only worked with it in the 3/4" and 1" sized for water supply.And some references to HDPE (high density PE).But in 4" size I would have to have a fair good size bend radius. Pure speculation, but I am guessing maybe 10 ft or more. So I could see it following a curved path of an existing segmented pipe. But certainly not follow a path of a premade 90* elbow.Looking at the 2000 IRC and they allow all kinds of materials included the clay tiles and conrete. And a dozen different flavors of PVC, but no PE.http://hcplumbing.com/sewer.html
http://www.hydromanrooter.com/pages/pictures.php
http://www.tttechnologies.com/jstories/gcrack/PW%20TRENCHLESS/index.htmlThis last one does main trunk lines. One is 18".I have heard of doing this pulling copper tubing to replace steel water supply lines..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Great links! That last one is impressive. I watched a city main go in trenchless on a busy commercial street, and they never fully closed any of it. It was not 18" line though, wow.
k