Replies

1. 
   thumper---ridge_runner | Jun 07, 1999 12:26am | #18

   *
   i have to agree with the ice and water rule 15 years of wrapping the curbs with it and have not had one leak yet. however, the seal between the glass and the metal flange seems to break in about 5 to 8 years. here in west mi we get all types of weather from the high 90's to the -20's with plenty of snow in between. 8 years later a small bead of hi-test siding caulk{made to expand and contract with the weather} and your problem is solved. my invoices for roofing have this spelled out in them when ever i do a house that has a roof window in it so there is never any question in the future.

2. 
   Guest_ | Jun 07, 1999 07:55am | #19

   *
   Thanks for the input Thumper,

   I'll spell it out for 'em about the ice and water shield and caulk maintenance.

   After talking with the client's designer, we've chosen a spot a bit farther from the valley, but still giving the reflective qualities off the mirror that he wanted to get...

   Exactly which ridges are you running anyhow?

   Dan

1. 
   Guest_ | Jun 07, 1999 09:23pm | #20

   *Thumper,I am glad the caulk is working out for you and glad you spell it out in the contract.I wou;d hesitate to trust caulk as a primary flashing material this way,no matter how good the caulk is. If the stuff worked all that well we could throw away our brakes and just run a bead around chimneys! Anyhow,I am not trying to start an argument,and I am glad it is working for you,but I wouldn't want to depend on it.Good Luck,And happy rige running,Stephen

3. 
   Guest_ | Jun 07, 1999 09:23pm | #21

   *
   How far do I need to keep them away?

   9/12 roof, Tennessee (not much snow, but a lot of rain at times)...

1. 
   Guest_ | May 21, 1999 05:12am | #1

   *If you use a valley pan, keep them out of it. If you don't keep them as far away as you would if you did.

1. 
   Guest_ | May 21, 1999 06:33am | #2

   *O.k. I should keep it about a foot out of the valley. More if possible.I've got to stick it in a bathroom and was curious as to how much flexibility I had because I'd like to place it nicely in the room.Cheers Mike!

1. 
   Guest_ | May 21, 1999 08:56am | #3

   *Can't resist...You should place it above the spot you want the leak to drip to.Rich Beckman :-)

1. 
   Guest_ | May 21, 1999 09:01am | #4

   *Rich, Bituthane, bituthane, bituthane. (You may substitute the slang-phrase if you wish.)

2. 
   Guest_ | May 21, 1999 04:22pm | #5

   *I gotta agree with Rich on this one. In fact I suggest keeping the sky light far enough away from the valley that it is not installed on the roof.I have yet to see a skylight that did not eventually leak(usually after the windows warranty expired and long after the roofers warranty expired,but well before the shingles were shot).Sure they look great inside the house, but you need an other hole cut in your roof about as much as another hole in your head.Good Luck,Stephen

3. 
   todd_pickering | May 22, 1999 07:30am | #6

   *Dan,I'm sold on Velux's flashing system but I always wrap the skylight and everything for 24-36" inches around in ice and water shield type membrane. No callbacks in 5 yrs of skylights so far. The valley would make me leery but I am looking at snow build up in Wisconsin. How about one of the sun tube type of skylights?

4. 
   Guest_ | May 22, 1999 03:26pm | #7

   *Todd,I have never used the round tube lights so I won't comment on those.The problems I have seen with other skylights however have nothing to do with the roofing or flashing.The ones that seam to be leak prone have some kind of gasket or weather stripping between the metal outside trim and the glass or between the glass and whatever is below the glass.On 4/12 roofs the water will pond up on top of the skylight, caught between the metal edge and the glass.After the skylight has been in the sun long enough the gasket gives out. This doesn't seam to happen till the skylight is about 12 years old(after the 10 year warranty on the window is expired and before the 20 or 25 year shingles need replaced.Remember those old bubble type skylights that you could get REAL cheap? All one piece of molded plastic?I was always suprised to see those work O.K. The ones I found leaking had cracks at at least one of the 4 sharp corners.Sunlight damage again I think.It sounds like your installations are gonna work great for at least another 7 years and then what fails will be the skylight,not your work.I avoid skylight installations like the plague,not because of the leak potential,but because I don't want to do the inside work involved.I would rather have every tooth pulled out of my head with a rusty pair of pliers than spend even 10 minutes working inside a customers house.Good Luck,Stephen

5. 
   Guest_ | May 23, 1999 08:46am | #8

   *Could be Stephen. I have a customer with one leaky Anderson skylight out of the two he put in. He said it stops leaking when he covers it with plastic so it looks like the culprit is indeed the glass to sash seal. I would guess 4/12 and about 13 +- yrs on the age too. So you think I should plan on buying a new truck and adding a couple guys in about 7 years?I'm used to working under other people's noses though it is nice to get out on the roof or deck too. I just love the look on their faces when all that sunshine comes pouring in through the roof. I'm SURE they will remember the 12 years of smiles when the drips are making the toast soggy on a drizzley Sunday morning. Into every life a little rain must fall...

6. 
   Guest_ | May 24, 1999 02:28am | #9

   *Above the sink or tub then...

7. 
   Guest_ | May 24, 1999 02:31am | #10

   *Thanks Todd.Velux is the name that pops into my mind when I think of skylights. The ice sheild is a good idea. Sounds like the problems are with the skylights and not with the installation. Never messed with a sun tube, but am intrigued by them. They seem pretty handy and easy to install.And cheap.Dan

8. 
   Guest_ | May 24, 1999 05:23am | #11

   *Stephen, what terrible experience soured you on entering a customer's house? Do you even sign the contract outside?Velux takes their flashing seriously, and they want you to use that bitumen stuff too. I think the one I put in is better sealed than the rest of the roof. But it sounds like the homeowner needs to expect sash replacement or reglazing periodically. I'll try to see what the manufacturer has to say. At least a leak there comes down the light well and not into the ceiling.I must say the Velux was a pleasure to install, even for a roofing nitwit like myself. Haven't done the interior work 6 mos. later though! (Too much else to do...)on the original Q, I suppose the curb height is another factor to consider. Someone skilled at flashing (it sounds like there are few) shouldn't have much trouble -- you could even elevate the curb.The Solatube thingies have been talked about a lot here. Opinions ran about 3 to 1 against, but the 1 liked them a lot.

9. 
   Guest_ | May 24, 1999 07:23pm | #12

   *Andrew,you asked an interesting question(at least to me,anyhow).I have not had any bad experiences involved in entering a customers house and I would like to keep it that way.Tearing the whole roof off of someones house can be a terrifying operation for the homeowner.After all , all of their worldly goods are at the mercy of the weather and my judgement.Since I do this on a very regular basis I have adapted a few methods for making the whole process a little less nerve wracking for ME.When we put a new roof on a customers house we keep things as simple for the homeowner as possible.He,or she has only 3 main responsibilities.1 get me a 50% deposit check in advance,2 provide us with access to electricity while we are working,3 pay the balance due upon completion.None of these 3 things require me to enter the house, so why go inside.As a roofer all of my work is done outside anyway.If I need to show the customer shingle samples to pick a color from,outside is the place to be.That way we have natural lighting and easy access to the siding and trim which may impact the color or shingle style.Working outside means I can come and go as I please. Compare that with the constant headaches of an inside project.... will the customer give you a key to the house or have to arrange time off of work.What if rain or unforseen complication on yesterdays job delay the start of work scheduled inside today and the customer un-neccisarily loses a dday of work(or vacation or comp time). To me it would just be one endless pain in the butt.As far as signing contracts or writing checks,that is usually done by mail.I think we may have discussed before that a suprisingly large pecentage of my work is done without ever even meeting the customer face to face.Wouldn't you as a customer like to go to work one day with an old worn out roof on your house and come home to find a brand new roof completed with no damage to your siding or landscaping and all of the ddebris already hauled away.That kind of production and service leads to referrals.That is the rational reasoning for not entering the customers house,but you wanted the REAL reason didn't you?The real reason is that I must carry some kind of mental baggage that makes me uncomfortable in anything less than NEUTRAL territory.Social situations in restraunts,bars,Ballfields,Basketball courts etc.and I am a real party animal.Social situations in someone elses home or even worse MY home ,are agony.ADK jacks fall slapfest better be held outdoors or I will be a handfullAnyhow,somehow I have managed to turn a personal quirk in to a marketing bonanza.I may be crazy, but I am a freaking genius in my small area of expertise.Good Luck,(curled up in the fetal position sucking my thumb)...STEPHEN

10. 
    Guest_ | May 24, 1999 08:19pm | #13

    *Andrew,I forgot to mention the obvious.Staying outside means I NEVER have to worry about tracking tar or caulk on carpeting and any roofing nails stuck in my shoes will never gouge a hardwood floor.I am gonna go back outside and watch the rapidly clearing sky now and Kick myself.At 6:15 am. It was pouring rain and we cancelled work for the day,now it is a rapidly clearing ,cool ,breezy sky.To late though,to tear off a roof today.It is lost time like this that makes roofing work expensive.

11. 
    Guest_ | May 25, 1999 08:20am | #14

    *Candid and interesting! I'm surprised by the clients' willingness to sign having never met you. you must have an enviable reputation indeed.

12. 
    Guest_ | May 25, 1999 08:41am | #15

    *Stephan: NOW I better understand your obsession with attempting to limit liability above all else.

13. 
    Guest_ | May 25, 1999 04:47pm | #16

    *Fred L, I loved the top 10 list of reasons not to enter the customers home.Rest assured that I do occasionaly enter the customers house to inspect one or more aspects of the job but I certainly don't want to do any work in there!After all,kitchen installers try to minimize their time spent rooftop....not much of thir job takes place there.Also rememberthat I see the same roof problems over and over again.I am very familiar with the different models of houses built in my town 80 years ago and I am rarely suprised anymore by any thing I find.I suppose it is similar to a car mechanic who works on the same models of cars over and over again. They pretty much know what is gonna go wrong and when.Andrew, my reputation is not that enviable,but it is pretty solid. The better business bureau contacted me several weeks ago about becoming a member.It seems they keep a file on all contractors they recieve questions about,members and non members alike.The BBB rep indicated that they recieve more requests for info on me than any other roofer and yet they have zero complaints about me.His word to describe this was "remarkable". It seems that roofing contractors and auto mechanics do not enjoy a high customer satisfaction rate.With all the potential customers calling in for info on me, he coulddn't believe that NONE of them called back later with complaints.Please believe me when I say that not all of my jobs go perfectly,and I certainly make more than my fair share of mistakes.It is how you handle your inevitable screw ups that determines wether the customer is left satisfied or is left bitter and resentfull.Some of my best referalls come from jobs that didd not go exactly as planned.Good Luck,Stephen

14. 
    Guest_ | May 28, 1999 05:40am | #17

    *Glad to see the top ten lists coming back Fred...8. You don't have to marvel at their art or worry about breaking it.I was hanging two piece crown molding in a room with a ten thousand dollar mirror in it a few weeks ago. Not to mention the two hundred year old buffet or the hutch... Very nerve racking indeed.We didn't know it's worth until after we moved it into the upstairs bedroom (my partner was painting the room as well).On the upside though, we do have an excellent reputation for cleanliness.immaculately,Dan