Hello all,
Please allow me the grace to post this as part introduction and part rant. Largely a rant…….
For the intro part I’d like to introduce myself as BjR and have been a carpenter/foreman/superintendent for the last 22 years specializing in fast track, high end tenant improvements. Gainfully employed with high respect and regard by the same employer for the past sixteen years. In fact five years ago I was nominated by my peers in this company of 250 employees for a national award of “Carpenter of the Year”sponsored by ABC (Association of Builders and Contractors).
For the rant part, four years ago I was seriously injured in a totally preventable work accident that was caused by the belligerent attitude of a project manager that threatened me with my job if I did not do a task his way. Long story short it involved a four story building, 3 tons of sand bags, gravity and the short sightedness of said project manager. Well here in Washington State, as I suspect in some of your home states, you cannot sue your employer (can you say Boeing?) so that is not an option for me. But L&I did pick up the tab for the major remodel on my shoulder and the year and a half of recovery it took until my attending physician said I had reached Maximum medical improvement and I was left with a 31% impairment in my left arm.
Longer story made shorter, this employer of 16 years challenged this impairment rating causing three years of contentious dealings with L&I and an assortment of Independent Medical Examiners, (which by the way, there is nothing independent about them), lawyers and causing me to at one time find myself standing at the brink of suicide because of all the stresses and changes of this accident. To the employers credit they did keep me busy working throughout my recovery but with seriously modified capabilities. This past December the company got slow and I had just finished running a six month project at a local university and there wasn’t anything to step into after that so I went on standby status with unemployment until I got called back to work which the company said would be about mid march. Recently I was told that my next assignment was two months of night work………..bummer……but if that’s all there is I’ll do it. Two days before I was scheduled to start the project I got a phone message that said I was pulled off in favor of a guy that has the use of both arms and I was told that another project for me will start up in June. It sort of feels like they are using this period of slowdown to sort for silently encourage me to go away as evidenced by the fact that my picture is off the companies website and I’m not in the company rosters anymore and other folks that were laid off are back to work now. After 16 years of loyal, unblemished service it’s unfortunate to part ways so unceremoniously.
My standby status ran out March 4th and so now I have to do work searches and if I refuse an offer of work I can lose my benefits. I feel I have an obligation to tell the prospective employer about my shoulder and virtually all of them visibly bristle at the prospects of what it could mean for them. So I’m stuck between a rock and a hard place. I’m getting my license and bond and springing out on my own. I don’t have many more options and I don’t have any illusions it’s going to be easy as I’m fully aware a good carpenter doesn’t necessarily mean they can run a business. But If I can count on the collective wisdom of the members of this forum perhaps it’ll ease the sting of the uncertainty and doubt and mistakes I will make along the way.
Replies
We're here for ya brother.
First thing I'd like to do is burn down the offices of your former employer.
Na na-na-na-na na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na na-na-na-na !
I need somebody to help me say it one time!
How would you feel about asking your employer & their insurance to retrain you into a less physical, construction-related job?
I've asked............................................three times.
The response has always been "oh, that's a great idea" and it never went anywhere.
This is all very familiar because over the years there were a few times when I suspected it was happening to a couple of other guys that got hurt or sick. In one guys case he got cancer and went through chemo the other guy had a heart attack. After they supposedly recovered, "conveniently" we had a lack of work and they too were laid off and weren't asked back. And these were top notch tradesmen.
Best of Luck in your venture.
We've got a few guys here from Seattle and surrounding areas. Hopefully you'll find them and they can give you some support in your endeavor. There's a folder here Help/Work Wanted that might be a place to start. Reading in the business folder will certainly help you get off to the right start.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Just another thought or two, after reading your response about the other two guys--maybe the three of you could pool your resources and do something like start a consulting business, or even start a help group for people who have had similar things happen. I would think the media would find your stories worth publishing.
<belligerent attitude of a project manager that threatened me with my job if I did not do a task his way. >
Man what a tuff break, and I suppose this a$$wipe is still with
the co. I can't imagine how you feel about this guy or what
you would like to do to him. Lord knows it made my blood
boil.
I can't offer any advice but I know you've come to the right
place to get some.
hang in there BjR
A good carp and Super is vital to a smooth running site. You'll land on your feet. Emphasize your Super skills. Less of your carp skills. You'll do fine. A good Super just makes my day. They always look like they are not working. That's because everything is working well. And I know how that happened.
I just quit a Builder today with a new Super. Total azz wipe.
Don't got time for that crap.
Sorry man.
Do remeber, the olny bad thing about working for yourself is that your allways working for an a$$hole!!!!!
Welcome to the world of Biz BjR!
You've landed at the right spot. With a little luck and a lot of effort, you'll do fine.
Head over to the Business section and start your lessons.
You do have options, but to discover them you'll have to do some soul searching.
What is your financial status at the present time? Are you just scraping by or have you been a good steward of that 16 years worth of income?
blue
That stinks! I've heard similar stories before, and they all seem to play out the same - gradually phase-out the injured guy, one way or another. When I was younger and less stubborn, I also received a jobsite injury from doing something that I thought (and stated) was unsafe, but was ordered to do. Today I'd tell the guy to take a flying leap, but back then I was more submissive.
So as the saying goes, sometimes when life hands you lemons, you gotta make lemonade. Like you, I really didn't choose this path so much as it was the only path left after others dead-ended for one reason or another. So here we are. Been a year since I left my other career, ant took my gen. contractor's license out of "inactive" status, and so far I'm still alive and kickin', and still working on getting all my ducks in a row.
You'll probably do well, my advice is advertise until you're picking the cherries and turning the rest away.
"he...never charged nothing for his preaching, and it was worth it, too" - Mark Twain
Hey BjR,
It never ceases to amaze me at how quickly one can fall out of favor with "the man" when things aren't going so well for an emplyee. I have had a few situations (none so bad) but I was a die hard company man for a high end kithcen design center. I was a draftsman, a project manager, and an installer. Good at all of these things but frankly just overwhelmed enough to do a solid job at all of them, though I tried. I was hurt on a table saw one day getting two fingers and a thumb cut up bad, broken bones, lots of rehab, surgery, etc. I returned to work, loved my coworkers but the flat out incensitivity of my boss had me leaving months later. It was obvious to me that $$$$$$ was his bottom line. I went to work for others but ended up self employed out of a desire to control my future dealings with people. What I learned however was that even as a sub contractor things are great until you can't keep em happy.
If you choose to do the self employed thing, stick to homeowner work. It's a hell of a lot of effort and the pay can be terrible at times but don't be afraid to charge what your worth. If you get one out of five bids then you are on track.
Also, with your experience, hire help and manage, forget doing the work all by yourself, do what you can and delegate. The market is always looking for people who are skilled but also who are professional, prompt, and communicate well. Sometimes things that seem like real down on your luck moments end up being turning points for great things. Don't forget all of the positive things from your job. The people, the work itself, the family's who live in those places. Dwell on the good man. Bitterness is poison and it gets worse and worse. Hang in there.
Hey thanks...................
You said some fine things and I really appreciate that. I was/am a really good, hard working, dedicated and committed employee that owners/clients/architects and subs really appreciated my extra efforts and I just can't believe the callousness of this company after all these years. I have to admit I'm trying hard to stay positive and keep my head up and looking ahead and not back and not develop a f*ck it attitude which at times is right under the surface.
Thanks
How would you feel about going to work for yourself as a Home Inspector?If they stay busy those guys make some pretty nice coin for only a few hours work..^^^^^^
Boy, do I know where you are coming from. Basically, I have gone thought the same as you but I did it when I was working on my own after being in business for myself for the past 15 years.
I went through 5 surgeries not knowing if I would make it make it through or not. I guess I didn't because I chose to close up my shop in SoCal and move to the Wash Coast and try to give myself some time to recuperate. What really hurt me was the emotional part of knowing that it took me 15+ years to get to the point that my business was all word of mouth. Clients weren't calling me for bids, but to actually find out when I would start their projects, price was just a formality.
What I have learned since that time is that I'm not getting any better and I can't do it on my own anymore, I need help. You are probably in the same situation.
Now, I'm have decided to just work on one home at a time by purchasing it and living in it. When I'm healthy/capable, I work on it. When I'm not, I heal and then go at it again.
Another thing I have learned is that Washington is not your friend when it comes to getting health insurance when you have medical problems. Neither my wife nor I could get private medical insurance. Keep this in mind, don't let your Cobra run out before getting more insurance.
Good luck in your new adventure
Migrane
Where in Washington are you hanging your hat?
BjR
Wow. God bless you! You probably could sue the people who didn't give you the job under the Americans with Disabilities Act, but proably not worth it. Violating that Act is a federal offense and it's a civil rights thing, so you'd have the advantage. (This goes also for those who won't hire you because of your disability--sounds like they are the ones with a disability having to do with what lies between their ears.)
I think your wellspring of knowledge is your most valuable asset and it sounds like your plan will take advantage of that. Others who have more business experience than I do can perhaps give more advice, but it sounds like you have a good plan!
Edit: After Katrina, I know that there are many agencies (mostly churches or church-sponsored) who are looking for experienced people to oversee rebuilding. That might be a starting place. They don't probably pay well, but it may get you started. When I was helping a church in Laurel, a guy was sent down from Arkansas Baptist Builders. He had to "retire" because of an injury and joined the ABB to oversee all their building projects. He was a paid employee. Churches tend to be a little more Christian in the attitude towards people (though not always). If you email me, I can give you this guy's name--they were looking for more people to do what he does.
Edited 3/24/2006 7:14 am ET by Danno
BjR -
I'm going to apologize in advance for this post, but what I'm going to say is a bit harsh. You sound fairly typical, actually - great technical skills but uncertain about the business side of things. You also have some physical limitations that will affect your business. That said, now what? - lol
Going out on your own is difficult under the best conditions and your reasons really aren't important. The past is over and your future customers (i.e. employers) really won't care about your issues with "the man". They just want to know if you can do their job, do it on time and budget, and do it for a fair price.
You have a tough road ahead and dragging that baggage around ain't gonna make it any easier. You can't change it, so you gotta put it away and stay focused on how you're gonna get this thing done.
You've come to a great place to ask questions, by the way. The collective knowledge and experience here is phenomenal.
Lots of work to be had all over the Puget Sound area, BjR, commercial, residential, carpentry, cabinetry, supervisory, sub contracting, whatever you're looking for.
The Westward migration continues in full force. Just open the classifieds. Tipi, Tipi, Tipi!
http://www.asmallwoodworkingcompany.com
I'm going to take a guess and say that you have restrictions on overhead work activities due to the shoulder injury. Does this prevent you from doing your job? I'm guessing it does?I'm guessing you also have lifting restrictions? Jobs are classified as sedentary, light, medium, heavy, very heavy. What are you capable of doing?If you're physically unable to do your former job your employer is between a rock and a hard place.In an ideal world your employer make job accommodations. Sometimes it's just not feasible.Sometimes the UNION will not allow job accommodations or they will not allow your employer to give you a completely different job.Nothing wrong with going ahead and looking at training programs you're interested right there in your area. State funded college and tech schools are by far cheaper than the private schools. Some people with a background in construction have gone through training in real estate, drafting, computers, estimating, home inspections, electronics, heavy equpment operator, sales rep, whatever.Some go through retraining and stay on with the same company. Going back to school really isn't that expensive. Books and tuition may only be 1-2 thousand. Most people would probably qualify for a student loan to pay it.The problem is making it and paying your bills from month to month as a full-time student. You may have to work full-time while you go to school full-time. Hey I did it.If your employer won't put you to work would they be willing to keep paying you a monthly work comp check while you go to school? Maybe they don't want to mess with this and just want to give you a lump sum of money and you go on your way.People who go back to school when they're older are excellent
students. If you go back to school I think you're a lot better off to stay in some field related to your work experience.Good luck!
^^^^^^
In an ideal world your employer make job accommodations. Sometimes it's just not feasible.
Seems kinda hard to believe it wouldn't be feasible in a company with 250 employees! In fact, considering the culpability of the company in the injury, I'd think the company would want to bend over backwards to make it feasible. Even in this less than ideal world.
"he...never charged nothing for his preaching, and it was worth it, too" - Mark Twain
Edited 3/24/2006 10:45 am by Huck
You have a tough road ahead and dragging that baggage around ain't gonna make it any easier.
Dave - I didn't get any sense of the OP dragging around any "baggage", more like just needing to vent a little over an obvious injustice. The fact that he's looking into the option of self-employment tells me he's forward-looking and goal-oriented. And you're right - this is a great place for some knowledgeable and experienced business advice."he...never charged nothing for his preaching, and it was worth it, too" - Mark Twain
Huck -
It wasn't until my second read of the post that I got the feeling that some baggage was involved. We all need to vent from time to time but as I re-read his reasons, it hit me that the reasons are irrelevant. Customers don't care why any of us are in this business and describing past injustices will probably be a turnoff for them.
We all need to vent from time to time but as I re-read his reasons, it hit me that the reasons are irrelevant. Customers don't care why any of us are in this business and describing past injustices will probably be a turnoff for them.
OK, but my reading of his post indicates it was directed at fellow construction professionals, who (like myself) are often very interested in the reasons leading up to a business decision to go out on one's own. In fact, one of the first questions usually asked when someone says they want to go on their own is, Why? What do you hope to accomplish? I thought he addressed that pretty well, and it didn't seem irrelevant at all, to me.
In fact, if others have suffered similarly, revealing his situation opens the door for them to share their insights and experiences, that they might not if they didn't know his story. I didn't get any feeling he was planning on using the injustices he suffered as an advertising theme for potential clients. Maybe I missed something in the post that you caught?
Anyway, just my take. Like my tagline indicates, my advice costs nothing and is usually worth it, too."he...never charged nothing for his preaching, and it was worth it, too" - Mark Twain
BjR,
I'm about three years ahead in the exact situation, although mine is due to cancer, not an employer.
If you email me your USPS address, I'll send you a CD with all the information and goodies I have found That have edumicated me to the point that I am fairly confident about my new business in construction.
Actually, I just checked, it will be 3 CDs, maybe 4. Whew, I've never added it up before.
It will save you a lot of time searching, most of it is pretty well catagorised.
I can only offer that your plight is unfair and further demonstrates how callus employers become with employees. It would be nice if Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle" was an event of the past. It always is amazing how $$$ can come before human rights is some folks eyes. I do believe the cosmos is fair and each reaps what he/she sows - so the foreman will someday be reminded of how poorly he treated you. That said think of the following:
1. There is often a parallel state statute covering disabilities that mimics the Federal Act. Google your state and see. The actual language of the statute - if it in fact exists - is public domain and will be there for your review.
2. In my state there is a provision that if not licensed with a current state builders license you are precluded from using the courts for redress of any action. If you get cheated by a client refusing to pay you eat the problem if no license. Just a piece of unsolicited advice. I read your plan to get one so that may be a moot point.
Miller Lite works great for blood pressure I heard. Unfairness in a prefect world should not exist - but then again its not all perfect.
Mike C
Sounds to me like a real difficult situation...Here in California we have the same rule that makes it difficult to bring legal action against your employer. However, there are situations where legal action against the employer can be brought and the same may well be so in Washington State. The only problem is that there's a time limit on how long an injured worker can file and I believe that three years is too long. Even after three years, there may be particular situations that extend the time period for filing action so it would be wise to investigate your case with a lawyer of your own. Within the state you should have something similar to a Lawyer Referral Service, contact them and explain your case briefly and they can refer you to the correct attorney. Usually the fee for 1/2 hour review of the case is only about $50 and within that time, they can tell you what your options may be, if you have one. Bring a written time line of your injury and follow up contacts with Workers Comp etc. with you to the consultation. Even if it has been too long since your injury occurred, you will at least explored your options and you won't later find out that you passed up an opportunity for compensation. Check into it at the very least.
As an example of situations where legal action can be brought against an employer, at least here in California, is the following: If the employer knows of a dangerous situation on the jobsite but doesn't correct it and a worker is later injured because of it, that would open the employer to a law suit by the injured employee. Workers Comp laws do not protect the employer from his own stupidity or negligence.
Along the lines of what Woodway said,
In CA the staute of limitations starts at the time of Maximum medical improvement.
Workers comp will provide a portion of lost earnings if you can't return to your usual vocation. In my case they happily gave me 50% of a years journeymans pay a month after Maximum medical improvement was determined.SamT
Thanks Woody,
I've been in contact with a few lawyers to discuss options and both of them basically said the same thing. That the dollar value/cost of the case and the return for them doesn't pencil out for them to take the case on. Not to mention that Washington is a no-fault state. In my paranoid fantasy state of mind that I can get myself worked up into, it has occurred to me that it's no coincidence that the amount of monies that are are awarded to claimants strangely coincides with the amount of legal fees to take the case to trial. So it essentially washes out any benefit of taking anything to trial.
BjR
Being in business is great, you only have to work 1/2 days, you just need to figure out which 12 hours you want to work.
Sometimes true, but I love it. I have been on my own for 26 years.
framer / small projects / remodeling and additions / custom homes and now takiing on a development.......I am with the others.......if you want to take the plunge and I can help...... let me / us know
Help!
Somebody post to me.
I've got a deleted "unread message" to me.
Tanks!
Your Welcome!
Speak the truth, or make your peace some other way.
Edited 3/27/2006 7:39 pm ET by dustinf
LOLSamT
NO!Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Arrrgh! Whadidi start?SamT
WHAT PART OF NO CAN YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I'm not going to read your post so I can still have an unread message to me show up.SamT
cool......
and me either...
so there.............Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Here's the post bro - it's gonna cost ya.
Don KI.
I'll buy ya one, next time I'm in the Tavern. LOLSamT
You've come to the right place. there's a great pool of wisdom on this forum willing to help and hopefully you'll contribute as well. you can get advice on everything from business practices, ethics and strategies as well as in the trenches techniques.
exactly what kind of jobs will you be targeting?