Painting, as you may have guessed, is not my favorite thing to do. However, I am required to paint on the houses that my R.E. buddy and I do. I’m an OK painter, but am a little challenged when it comes to the “rules”.
So here’s the question…
We’re painting a LOT of casement windows. Sanded, primed and 2 coats of Latex semi gloss for the inside.
Since a bunch of them are 20-40 feet up, we are able to let them dry overnight at least before we re-install them.
If you havent figured it out yet, the problem is when we do re-install them – no matter how long we’ve waited – after being closed for even 1 day, they stick and peel when you crank them open.
We’ve stopped painting the outside jamb edge (where the window hits to try and fix the problem to no avail.
Should we be using different paint-i.e. Oil? Enamel?
If it’s ok to use latex, should we be waiting longer than a day or two to re-install?
Should I get the heck out of the painting business (please say yes)?
Thanks for any help.
Replies
Latex paint takes a lot longer than a few days to completely cure. I know it seems dry, but there's still a lot of curing going below the dry surface film. That film is actually keeping air from penetrating to the lower layers.
When I paint mantles, I ask my customers not to put anything on it for at least a week. 2 weeks is better. They're usually surprised that they need to wait that long, but I've seen heavy objects stick even after a few days. (There's even a term for this characteristic, but I forget what it is).
Do be sure to use 100% acrylic paints as they dry to a harder finish film.
The same problem exists with oil-based paints. Once cured, oil has less tendency to stick than latex, but I don't know how long oil takes to get to this state.
Is it possible to use weatherstripping so when the windows are cranked closed, there isn't paint-to-paint contact? I wonder if if shellac or lacquer on the contact areas would work. It might be worth experimenting with.
I've seen heavy objects stick even after a few days. (There's even a term for this characteristic, but I forget what it is)
I think that's the Modulus of Elastick-ity :)'Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt man doing it' ~ Chinese proverb
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I think that's the Modulus of Elastick-ity
nyuk, nyuk. Oh, I remember now, it's called "blocking". Well, that is I remember thanks to BarryE who posted right before you.
Have you asked the paint manufacturer? BTW what paint are you using?
Bruce
Only the most unskilled and "desiring to do it over again" types will rush a casement paint job. To do one right will/should take you almost a week.
Cut out a piece of cheep T-111 siding or plywood to exactly match the casement being painted. Exactly the same width and height.
Remove all of the mechanicals and weatherstripping, strip your old paint and wash well. Cover the window for the night with your cut out siding. Secure it in place from the outside with #1, two 1/2" holes drilled in the width's middle and equal distance from the top and bottom, #2, 4 to 6" long 3/8" round capped self locking bolts and corresponding nuts running thru the sideing and a wide enuff 1 by piece of strapping that will be long enuff to go from the left casing to the right, which is on the inside. Tighten this up with someone positioning the piece of siding so it doesn't cover the weatherstripping slots for the casement - equal distance from all sides, fitting just like the window casement.
Once you got this positioned, you can take a week or more to do that window. Use the best technique, paint and primer possible because properly painting casement windows is a job never to be repeated. But if you don't do it right, you'll be back within two years to do it all over again. And reinstall new weatherstripping, not the old shid you just took out.
I've painted far too many wooden casements to ever want to repeat the job. It's my firm belief that any builder using wooden casements either hates his customer or is trying to get back at him for not sharing his wife.
Repeat after me: "I will never buy a house with wooden painted casement windows, ever!"
Pete,
Your emphatic reply has me looking for more info.I just put a bunch of Marvin integrity casements with natural wood interior and fiberglass exterior.We prefinished the window sash with tinted dewaxed shellac and topcoated with water based polyurethane. A poster named HootOwl had a thread or two which described good results using dewaxed shellac with polyurethane topcoats.They were allowed to dry thoroughly prior to reassembling the window and hardware and there haven't been any issues yet.It was surprisingly labor intensive to keep track of all the hardware for 13 windows and the wood moldings that cover the opener mechanism were a nuisance to remove to seal the hidden surfaces.By the time the process was done there were no wood surfaces left uncoated.Do you forsee future problems? Thanks,
Karl
1. You had the sense to get weatherproof exteriors. I've been cussing about unclad windows.
2. Sounds like you did a good job. And Hootie did you right. You owe him a beer.
3. Only 13 windows? Geeze, I got's like 60.
Edited 7/30/2009 1:03 pm by peteshlagor
Thanks for the additional details. Glad I don't have sixty to deal with.Karl
Well...thanks to everyone for the input.
It seems like I was right about several things:
1. We were not allowing them to dry long enough (and BTW...we can leave these windows out for a month if we need to...)
2. Allowing them to dry forever may not even work.
3. I SHOULD get out of the painting business.
4. I WILL NEVER BUY A HOUSE WITH WOOD CASEMENT WINDOWS AGAIN.
I don't think the recent humidity is helping our cause either (Cincinnati area).
Believe it or not, these were NOT painted before...they were stained VERY POORLY which is why we decided to change it up.
Pete, we had done everything you mentioned (minus the plywood since we don't really need to block the openings off-we put screens in for the birds) except for letting them dry long enough.
I am not going to mention the paint we are using since I have read about folks here not liking it much...suffice to say -my partner likes it for some reason - it's his decision -and he is a BEA(H)R about the decisions he makes. Wink, wink.
Thanks again everyone.No Coffee No Workee!
Behr isn't paint...it's flour and water, or some such pile of uselessness.
I had an idea, but maybe someone can point out if it's a really bad one: Could the OP let the paint cure as long as possible for him and then put something like paste wax or something like that on the potentially sticking parts? Would wax attack the paint? I thought of silicone, but think that would attack the paint. Seems like parafin or some wax without a lot of (or any) silicone might work.
That's one of the recommended fixes. Wax, talcum powder or soapNever tried them, think it's only a temp fix
Barry E-Remodeler
what latex?
you are experiencing "blocking" due to the thermoplasticity of "latex" paints. Depends on the weather, thickness of the coats and time to dry. But in cases where you have weatherstripping or other gaskets being compressed there may never be enough drying time.
You can witness that when you open your garage door even a year or so after you painted and you can hear the latex paint still trying to grab.
I've had better luck on windows and doors or bookcases using something like Pro Classic. It still depends on the weather and drying time, but I've experienced less blocking
Of course oil paint is less prone to blocking because it drys harder, which can also be a drawback
Ask your paint store (a real one, not HD) for their best non-blocking exterior semi gloss. Paint with that.
1. Use alkyd paint instead of latex.
2. Leave the windows open for 48 hours in good dry weather; 72 hours in damp weather.
3. When you do finally close the windows, close them onto strips of waxed paper inserted at all contact seams, and don't close tight until ya gotta.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not brought
low by this? For thine evil pales before that which
foolish men call Justice....
Flour and water...ha! That's funny. And true, very true.
I'm gonna give the wax and/or soap a go and see if it will help any.
I'll be back later with a report.
JedNo Coffee No Workee!
YOu went to a lot of trouble to explain one thing if I understood .
"the windows are sticking "
Oil paint is much thinner and easiar to cut . It drrs slowly but cures faster into a hard finish. Latex enamel is a soft product. Bottom of the line if ya ask me . But people use it because its quicker except in your case where you have to cure it . Garage doors are the same deal. They will stick on the rubber.
You could help your self by using oil enamel and cutting a line short of the opening . In other words leave the paint 1/16 short [emamel] . The primer will reach all the way and hopefully be the same color . NO one will notice it and you will have a quality job.
Tim