I’m building a timberframe home. I use some wierd tools most of you have never seen but something wierd came up.
I have this tool that is called a groove cutter. I use it for wire chases in the timbers and cutting grooves in the flooring for Wirsbo tubing.(in-floor radiant heat) It’s slick, hogging out a nice grove almost as fast as I can shove it along the timber.
Now the dealer that sold it to me wants me to send it back. they will refund all of my money (including shipping). Thus my use to date will be free.
The trouble is I love the thing. (we call it the death machine ) terribly scary piece of equipment but it really does a nice job quickly.
I know it’s not UL approved (or anyone else for that matter) and that may be why the recall. It could also be just as the dealer says they will no longer be able to get parts or supply service for it. Whatever, I’m in a delema. If I return it it will make putting radiant tubing in a ton more difficult. yet if it breaks I’m up the creek without a paddle.
Crap shoot and I could use some advice..
Replies
Frenchy, what's the rest of the story? WHY do they want it back? It's a proto type death ray? They are being sued by someone and want to retrieve as many as possible before it kills any more users?
What's it do & how does it do it? How much did you pay for it? Can you keep it 6 months and then return it? Can you post a picture? NO, you're okay operating the death machine but not a camera.
Who made it, where did you buy it? Do I need one? Joe H
'Can you post a picture? NO, you're okay operating the death machine but not a camera.'
ROAR! ROAR! HA HA! OH man! ROAR!
Joe Joe! That was just too good! Roar! Let the thunder crack and the waves roar.
We're going on.
Frenchy, is this thing like a power plane with a shaper cutter instead of a planer blade? Joe H
Yeh, good discription.
I googled around and can't find anything about a recall or lawsuit - I assume you have a 3803A - says Makita discontinued
http://www.industrialmarts.com/Web/m%20groove%20&%20blower.html shows a 3501N with different specs -
http://www.timberwolftools.com/ hit (google: Makita groove cutter - 4th hit)with a Hitachi PG46B groove cutter @ $625, but the link was redirected to their catalog that doesn't list it -
the question has already been posed: is this low profile recall because of misuse resulting in injury or catastropic failure? - - given the dearth of info, I'd guess they are reducing their exposure to risk - - how many miles do you have on it? - - what is the alternative? - - given that you need it to do your construction, I'd be inclined to keep it, being stupid and therefore fearless and also antagonistic toward those who would tell me what to do without explaining why - perhaps some Kevlar taped around the cutter housing might provide some reassurance - just thinking with a keyboard - you gotta use your own judgement, mine has been demonstrated to be poor, in fact, you would be well advised to do the opposite of what I would do -
Yeh, wood got it right,
I'm certain that the reason that it was discontinuted is the thing is very scary! For example the one they sell in Japan is 220 volt and the one they sell (or used to sell) is 110 volt but there is no UL approval or anything except Japanese charcters with a Made in Japan plaque glued to the machine. The wiring is frightening too, just two prongs and a cheezy aligator clip for ground.
But woow does this thing work cool! Imagine a skil saw with a dado head turning 9000 rpm. That's about it! it flat spits out the chips and when you are done there is a perfect groove in the wood all three sides are baby butt smooth. I think it was about 7 to 800 dollars plus I bought all of the differant sized cutters so I can go from simple romex to wide enough to put a 2x4 into on edge. I think I've got a grand into it..
If you build timber frames you need one!
If you put radiant heat into the floor and use 2 inch thick timbers as subfloor you need one. Or if your are a 13 step tool junkie then you simply gotta have one..
Hello my name is Frenchy and it's been 5 hours since I bought a tool.......
First, ROFLMFAO about Joe's "death-machine, camera expose'.
: )
Second,
You say if it breaks you'll be up sh#t creek without a paddle.
How so ? The money you are out, that you spent for the machine ?
Otherwise, how would you be USCWAP any more by having a broken machine... than by not having any machine at all, because you dutifully sent it back ?
Don't bogart the Ghost
Quittin' Time
1st.
I ain't so rich that the dollars don't mean nuttin'
2nd.
If I were putting wirsbo tubing into the subfloor and it broke before the job was done I'd be out the money I could have got for returning it and still have a broken tool that can't be fixed (without a trip to Japan...
I think you can make your own death machine with a 2 hp 3400 rpm motor, a Craftsman moulding head with groove cutters, maybe some rollerskate wheels to make it more manuverable, some wheelbarrow handles for floor use, or tricycle handlebars for overhead use. You might want to fashion a guard from... naw that would interfere with the line of sight view as you cut. If you could also mount a fanblade to the shaft it will blow the sawdust away from the cut to allow higher precision work. >(:^)
Edited 11/27/2002 7:51:09 PM ET by MARKH128
How different is it from a good old router? Fewer safety features? I am picturing a router with a concave semicicular guide that allows you to push along parallel to a round timber, or move perpendicular around a timber. I too would like to see a picture. Does it use special side cutting bits?
If they made a router that could hog out white oak a groove that was an inch or more wide and deep as fast as you could slide it over the wood then yeh, it's a router. Imagine a Skil saw that cut with a dado head and you get the idea..
As for safety features, well there are none. None! We semi seriously call it the death machine. You definately understand care and caution when you use it....
First question, do you own it? If you do, keep it. It's yours. Burn it. Plate it with gold. Whatever. No one can make you do anything if you own it.
I wonder why the dealer wants it back. If it's faulty, tell him he can have it when you're finished with it. Or, sell it back for triple the price.
The dealer said he wantd it back because they can no longer get parts or service for it. A lawsuit is a real possibility. But since I like the dealer I'm inclined to give him the benefit of doubt...
Is it the Makita groove cutter? I googled groove cutter and at least one place says it is discontinued. Some of these tools are pretty impressive.
http://www.loghomestore.com/makita.html
Lets see, hand holding a 10" circular saw with a dado blade. Yeah, THAT sounds like fun.
You got it.
Fun tool and really serious about cutting grooves.
I bought it from Timberwolf tools.com along with most of the cool tools they sell. Hello my name is Frenchy and it's been 5 hours since I bought a tool......
I don't know how you could make this choice here without knowing WHY the tool was being recalled.
If they're being sued by some idiot who ran it over his own foot, then keep it.
If it has a history of exploding - maiming and blinding the operator - then it's irrelevant how handy the tool might be, you'd best return it.
In other words - if there's a chance the damn thing might injure you, then return it. If not, then don't.
If you do opt to return it, then miss the thrill of the "death machine", you could always put a dado stack on your circular saw:-)
Edit to include.....
I posted this while you were posting replies. In one, you say that the dealer wants the tool back because they can't get parts. That seems a little far-fetched. Why would any company buy back old tools (for full price, including shipping) just because parts weren't available? They've probably had some injuries from the tool. I guess you'll have to judge how likely the tool is to injure you.
Jon
Edited 11/27/2002 8:48:47 PM ET by JJSHAW
I suspect that if I called they would tap dance around and try to talk me into returning it. If there is a lawsuit then I'm certain their lawyer would put a gag order on them..
I'm sure you're right about that.
I'd keep the tool if I was totally confident I could use it without injuring myself. If I had any doubts at all, I'd return it.
A 1/4" spiral cutter in a 3hp router will make pretty quick work of laying channels for Romex, even in oak.
For the miles of channel required for radiant tubing, I'd find a way around cutting channels at all. There must be a better way than cutting all of that by hand.
"Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government."Jon
With the groove cutter I can cut it faster than I can lay the tubing. Which is why I'd love to keep it, at least untill the house is done but their deadline is Dec. 1'st.
As for safety, I realize that I only get one set of hands etc. On the other hand any tool used improperly can do damage.
Is the issue that the tool doesn't have UL approval? or is it that there is a defect inherant in the tool? Wondering minds want to know....
Frenchy, if it is available in Japan, someone can get parts for it. If the parts need that might be anticipated is a new armature and gear case due to grenade effect syndrome, then maybe it really is dangerous.
Sounds like a hell of a tool that you really need to finish your project. If it breaks you are out $1000, if it tears off your hand you're worse off.
Seems like the word would be out in the timberframe community that so & so lost his face when his death machine exploded. Do you correspond with any other Wacko-framers?
Joe H
sounds to me like it might be some sort of safety recall. I would send it back your body parts are not worth the convienceAt Darkworks cut to size made to burn......Putty isnt a option
The way Frenchy describes the electricals of his death machine, I'll bet Makita never sold this tool in the US. There's no way that sort of electrical set up would be sold here.
The dealer he bought it from imported them directly & Makita has found out and had a hissy fit. ? Joe H
I don't know, a chain saw deserves a recall because it can be misused. but since there are a ton of them to spread the law suits around, the liability insurance must be affordable. With the handfull of these around It could be that someone wants to limit their risk..
Frenchy, Im guessing since you do not want to part with it there is no substitute for the tool? I would be surprised if they were recalling simply because it was dangerous, nail guns, table saws, routers, and any number of other tools could inflict some nasty damage if used the wrong way, maybe its the electrical like you suspect?
has the tool paid for itself it yet, if it has, yeah it would suck if it broke, but if its already saved the 1000 you have in it, write it off.
though from your description, Im guessing this is one mean piece of work, so Im not sure i would want to keep it around
Have you looked at a Iancealot (I think that is the name). it is a disk with chainsaw like teeth on it and it goes on the end of an angle grinder. Wood carvers use them.
I think that one of the those along with some kind of metal "shoe plate" to set the depth would make a good and fast groover.
I've used one of those and for light carving they are fine. In a race to lay tubing/ wire I would be across the room with the Mikita before you got a foot with one of those.
I'll bet it has somethin' to do with lawyers ............ Timberwolf is missing a few tools they used to carry ........... the Hitachi saw for one.
Yeh, I noticed that several of the tools I own are no longer available. It could be a simple liability limit move.
Keep the tool! Even if youre done with it, hang it on a shrine. This tool has everything. COntroversy, divine useage, an appetite. Ability to hog through wood like there is no tomorrow. This tool was meant to be used on your house. Honor it by keeping it even if its never used again.
The Japanese believe all tools have a spirit, and this must have the soul of a tiger shark or some other garbage disposal that eats wood.
Sending it back will kill the spirit.
Ya, if you give it up now you'll be regretting it later. Let the thunder crack and the waves roar.
We're going on.
Buddy, the only reason they want it back is because they are sold out and they have a chance to make a bigger buck... Keep it and rent it... Well, O.K. there's probably very little chance of that being true. I'd certainly ask them why.
Steve
Mr. Frenchy:
Reading these posts has even got me scared and I know nuttin about t-frames but what I've read. However, you said - "If you build timber frames you need one!"
What do all of the other T-framers use? Surely there must be an ALMOST equivalent substitute.