I just built a tub surround for someone and tiled it with 6″ tile. I also put Dura-ceramic tile on the floor. The people who sold them the tile told them they could use the Dura-ceramic grout for both the floor tile(of course), and the ceramic tile I used on the surround. I looked on the grout instructions and it did say that you could.
Now for my problem; I grouted everything today and it worked fine on the floor but it seemed to shrink a lot on the ceramic tile. It actually shrank enough that some of the joints cracked in the middle! I made absolutely certain that I forced the joints full, as I always do when I’m grouting and so I am at a loss for an explanation! Has anyone had any experience with this type of grout on ceramic tile? In hindsight I wish I would have insisted she find a close enough color match in regular grout. Also what works good for this type of grout haze?? Thanks!
Duane
Replies
I've had the same type of thing happen to me with "regular" grout.
The cause was too thin of a mix caused by too much water. I get better success with thicker than toothpast blend and sore hands at the end of the day.
Joint size the same?
Backer the same?
Sanded grout?
Like other poster said...mix too loose?
I read once in an obscure magazine called Fine Homebuilding that it's best to mix grout so that is looks dry and crumbly, but will form a ball if squeezed in your hand.
I always mix it that way now, and have not had any problems. I also like the fact that it sets up far faster, and sponge cleaning the haze does not damage the grout lines on the wider 3/16 or 1/4 joints.
(Personally, I don't like tiling walls, I find floors to be a lot easier.)
Your grout may have been mixed too thin, and/or not slaked long enough. The description offered by another poster (crumbly texture that will ball up if pressed together) is what you want.
Your grout may also have sagged away from the bottom edge of the wall tiles... Here's why: On a wall application, to pack a full joint, make sure your diagonal strokes with the grout trowel include upward motions. This packs grout to the underside of each tile edge.
Edit: forget about that last bit, I see the cracks are in the middle of the joint.
I wonder what then accounts for the difference between the floor and walls. Are there porosity differences between the tiles? Did you mix you floor batches dryer?
Edited 1/9/2007 1:35 am ET by Pierre1
The Dura-ceramic grout is a pre-mixed grout. It is manufactured by the same company (Congoleum), that makes the Dura-ceramic tile for the floor. I was hoping to find someone who had experience with this particular product. The company claims that it can also be used on regular ceramic tile, but based on my own experience, I would question their claim. If anyone has used this, please respond. Thank you!
Just to clarify; the tile on the tub surround is just regular 6" ceramic tile. The Dura-ceramic tile is a floor tile only!!
Duey
Edited 1/9/2007 6:59 am by Duey
Cracks in grout have some simple causes, non of which have to do with the type or brand of TILE.
I still suspect that the grout was too loose, but since I have never used pre-mixed grout.........what the heck do I know?
The Dura-ceramic grout is a pre-mixed grout.
Garbage.
To be painfully blunt...........that's what you get for letting the HO specify your materials instead of an expert.
Eric[email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
what was the drying temp? i've had sanded grout dry out too quickly and crack, just like stucco or mortat will.
Is this a cement based grout? I suspect that it's made to work with the tile it comes with, which probably doesn't absorb as much moisture, and that it doesn't work as well with tiles that are more absorbent (assuming your other tile is a soft-body ceramic tile).
My experience is mostly tile repair, but I've used both pre-mixed and unmixed grout. Without a doubt, the pre-mixed stuff is garbage. It's been difficult to apply, and shrinks. I don't know what brand I used, but it soured me from ever using pre-mixed again.
Thank you to all who responded to my post! I would like to respond to the last few posts and share some of my recent findings. pickings, in this particular situation, it may actually have a lot to do with the type of tile. The Dura-Ceramic tile is about 3/16 " thick and is a type of limestone based product. To cut it you can score it with a utility knife and snap it and for other cuts, use a jigsaw with any fine to medium blade. It resembles vinyl more than anything. It would not absorb very much moisture, if any.
Eric, the HO did not specify what materials to use. They were taking the advice of the flooring sales company, who told them it was okay to use. As I stated I did call the manufacturer to verify this. They assured me it was perfectly okay to use it for regular ceramic tile. I guess they would qualify as the expert of whom you spoke. My mistake, I realize now. was that I didn't get in touch with a reputable installer who had used the product. I did after the fact,
and he told me that he had the same experience, and he had to grout it again, over the first layer. Arne, it was about 65 degrees in the bathroom. David, I think you made an excellent point, as I now believe it should never be used for grouting regular ceramic tile, even though it is labeled as such. I actually ended up with a little shrinkage and a few cracks and pinholes in the floor-tile joints as well. Marc, what you describe sounds exactly like my experience. This Dura-Ceramic grout (pre-mixed) is extremely difficult to clean off the tile after just a few minutes. (5-10). And like you said, it shrank. I had to use it on the floor for warranty purposes but never again on any other tile. I went over it all again with a second coat and now it looks fine. Because of the high level of binders in this stuff, a skim coat is possible. In fact, upon my second call to Congoleum(after the fact), they informed me that this sometimes happens and that I need only to give it another application! This product is perfect for people who love grouting so much that they want to do it twice! The Congoleum rep. also told me that it was possible that I used too much water in the clean-up process. I had not grouted the small access door for the tub yet, and so I decided to do an experiment. I grouted the tile on the door and then did the clean-up with a damp sponge, no excess water at all. It shrank just like the other and some of it cracked open also. It completely discredited their alibi theory! Lesson learned! Thanks again to all who responded! Duey
I agree with Marc5... premixed is garbage. I did a bathroom floor with a premixed Stain Proof sanded grout from HD. What a pain! It had the consistency of whipped cream and was VERY hard to finish. It took overnight to set, and sure enough ... cracks. Not only that, since it had so little body, it would pull from the joints (3/8") while shaping. The "haze" (read uncleanable residue) was Very hard to remove, I had to work for a couple of hours with Greased Lightning and a plastic scrub pad to get it off, and then a second coat to fill the cracks, and clean-up again. I think the problem with pre-mixed (I'm no expert ,,, a DIYer) is that it doesn't set like a gypsum product but rather dries like paint, thus the cracking. I agree with other posters ... when mixing grout, err on the thick side.